Why produce them in color?

[Professor]

Here is Jerry's commentary from Dough Ray Me-ow.

There are several cartoons made in the later forties period that were released, not in Technicolor, but in Cinecolor, which was a different process for printing color film. In its day it was really just two colors, and these cartoons, when they were originally released, mainly were shades of green and red. The cartoons weren't made that way as you can see from the print you're looking at right now. They were made with full color, but to save money they processed them in this cheaper Cinecolor process.

Were these cartoons made in Cinecolor to save money or was it because of the Technicolor strike? Maybe both reasons?

[absolutpaul]

Successive Exposure - Oh yes, of course...I remember that now. So does that mean the negative was shot with only 2 color exposures instead of 3??

[Professor]

Originally Posted by absolutpaul

Successive Exopsure - Oh yes, of course...I remember that now. But doesn't that still mean that the restored DVD version is a "Technicolor" film and not a "Cinecolor" film, since all 3 colors are remade from the successive-exopsure neg? Or was the negative shot with only 2 color exposures instead of 3??

The restored DVD version is neither Cinecolor nor Technicolor. It most likely was assembled from black-and-white negatives.

[absolutpaul]

Me again - in answer to the question above, I think it was because of the strike. Paramount switched to Polarcolor during this time, Columbia was using Cinecolor and I don't know what MGM, Disney or Lantz did, but I think this was around the time of Lantz closing his studio after moving to UA. Was that connected with Technicolor for some reason? I dunno.

[Chooch]

Originally Posted by gdX

So... that being the case, answer me this, experts: by 1948 had the Cinecolor process upgraded to a 3-strip, or otherwise been improved?...

In 1948, Cinecolor introduced their three-color process. This was possible due to the emergence of three-color materials produced in the new Eastman color and Ansco color stocks, or from films made with the Technicolor three strip camera. Cinecolor never became involved in the actual imaging of a three-color film.

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/cinecolor2.htm

[gdX]

Originally Posted by Professor

The restored DVD version is neither Cinecolor nor Technicolor. It most likely was assembled from black-and-white negatives.

Is that confirmed?... even if it is, how about the very similarly-hued copy seen on the laserdisc?... I am guessing those were transferred from prints, and not restored negs.

Originally Posted by Chooch

http://www.widescreenmuseum.com/oldcolor/cinecolor2.htm

Thanks, Chooch – very informative... so maybe Dough Ray Meow was printed with the then-new CineSuperColor process... and maybe Riff Raffy Daffy had to make do with the original 2-strip (which seemingly changed from the red-green spectrum to the orange-blue????)

[Professor]

Originally Posted by gdX

Is that confirmed?... even if it is, how about the very similarly-hued copy seen on the laserdisc?... I am guessing those were transferred from prints, and not restored negs.

Robert Harris interviewed George Feltenstein on the restoration process. Here is what George said about the Looney Tunes Golden Collection.

United Artists… Turner MGM group with the pre-49 color Looney Tunes and the Merrie Melodies, and then the post-'49 over at Warner Bros. The library was split and the Turner portion materials were always 16mm red prints in syndication, and then in 1987 they took mostly Technicolor nitrate prints and made 1" video masters of them. Those became the bedrock of our Looney Tunes laserdisc box sets.

From there someone made a decision that the way to preserve the cartoons was to make internegatives from those prints…and that was the way to preserve them.

Well, that wasn't…

So when Warner Bros. purchased Turner one of the first priorities that I got involved with was the preservation and restoration of the entire Warner Bros. cartoon library by going back to the original successive exposure negatives which (on the nitrate titles) are housed at the Library of Congress.

We have been doing that for a few years now, and it is extraordinarily expensive, which is why we can only do about sixty cartoons a year… I wish we could do more.

From this interview, it appears that Warner Video uses the successive exposure negatives whenever they are available. I do not know if the original negatives still exist for Dough Ray Me-ow though.

[Chooch]

Originally Posted by gdX

Thanks, Chooch – very informative... so maybe Dough Ray Meow was printed with the then-new CineSuperColor process... and maybe Riff Raffy Daffy had to make do with the original 2-strip (which seemingly changed from the red-green spectrum to the orange-blue????)

You're welcome, gdx.

Well, we haven't seen a restored LTGC version of Riff Raffy Daffy yet. But when it does finally become available, I'll bet that the colors will appear just as brilliant as they are in Dough Ray Meow.

And to be fair, Paul Penna had already posted that link earlier in this thread.

[Professor]

Originally Posted by gdX

Is that confirmed?... even if it is, how about the very similarly-hued copy seen on the laserdisc?... I am guessing those were transferred from prints, and not restored negs.

I found the following information at the UCLA Film Archive.

Dough ray me-ow / Warner Brothers ; directed by Arthur Davis.
1948.
Merrie melodies

Topics(s): Lenny (Fictitious character)
George (Fictitious character)
Genre(s)/Form(s): Cartoons. Shorts.
Credits heading(s): Davis, Arthur. animation
BBID (expression): 33463
Database: Film and Television Archive

Location: Non-circulating Nitrate Vaults archival copy
Inventory Number: M34484
Collection: MP Motion Picture Collection
Format: 1 reel of 1 (ca. 500 ft.) : si. ; 35 mm. nitrate work print.
Notes: LOCATION: F61-R14-4
HLDID (manifestation): 55820
Location: Non-circulating Nitrate Vaults archival copy
Inventory Number: M32614
Collection: MP Motion Picture Collection
Format: 1 reel of 1 (ca. 2000 ft.) : 3-col. ; 35 mm. nitrate SEN pic neg.
Notes: G79-R3-27
HLDID (manifestation): 55821

I am not sure what all the abbreviations mean, but I think 3-col. is three color and SEN is successive exposure negative. If this is so, then it is very likely the Golden Collection version of Dough Ray Me-Ow was made from a three-color record on black-and-white film.

[Paul Penna]

This is probably old news to many here, but a brief recap might be in order. The following is in general terms, leaving out the precise technical details.

Classic "Technicolor" was a two part process, involving first a method of capturing the color spectrum on film by exposing black-and-white negative film(s) through filters corresponding to the three primary colors, and secondly, producing projection prints via the dye transfer process. Each portion of the process contributed to the long-lasting, fade-free quality of the Technicolor image.

First, the photographic process: since the camera film was black-and-white, there was no color to fade in the first place. Thus, the photographic record was immune to fading. Secondly, the print-making process could make use of metallic-based color pigmenting rather than organic chemicals, the former being much less prone to fading than the latter.

The GAOLT laserdiscs made use of Technicolor projection prints for the most part. The LTGC DVDs are made from the original black-and-white negatives. So, are the LTGC images "Technicolor" or not? Well, if something like the restored "Adventures of Robin Hood" on DVD can be called "Technicolor," I suppose the LTGCs can as well. In each case, the three original three black-and-white color records were used to produce the color images we see on the DVDs, the only difference being that in the live-action film, original photography involved three separate strips of film and in the cartoons, just one strip of film.

As for the "Cinecolor" cartoons, I don't think Warners would have altered production just to accomodate a transitory situation. The cartoons may have already been in production or even completed before the Technicolor strike occurred, in fact. Just whipping up a "Cinecolor" credit card to replace the regular "Technicolor" one wouldn't take much time or work. I'd guess that Cinecolor was just given the 3-color SEs and then did whatever they had to do to come up with 2-color printing elements.

If that's the case, the "Cinecolor" LTGC titles made from the 3-color SEs would now have just as much right to be called "Technicolor" as any of the others whose projection prints were produced via dye transfer.