Official Tom & Jerry Spotlight Collection, Vol. 3 Talkback Thread

[Jon Cooke]

Welcome to the official GAC talkback thread for Tom & Jerry Spotlight Collection, Vol. 3 DVD set which will be released on Tuesday, Sept. 11, 2007. All discussion and talkback relating to this DVD set may be posted here. (Please note - previous discussion threads about this set have been closed, please use this thread instead). :tomcat: :jerry: :twoshoes:

http://store.goldenagecartoons.com/dvd/images/mgm/tjvol3.jpg (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=B000R7GKPK/theunofficlooneyA/)

CLICK HERE TO ORDER "TOM & JERRY, VOL. 3" (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ISBN=B000R7GKPK/theunofficlooneyA/)

[Jon Cooke]

Previous Tom & Jerry, Vol. 3 GAC Forums threads:

Picked Up T&J Set Today (http://forums.goldenagecartoons.com/showthread.php?t=9838)

Official Announcement / List of Cartoons & Extras (http://forums.goldenagecartoons.com/showthread.php?t=9706)

[sumnernor]

For your info: In the news - still unlocked is:

http://www.goldenagecartoons.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9170

[LTS]

Warner Bros have released the following statement regarding the two missing shorts Mouse Cleaning and Casanova Cat.



http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=8048

[Jon Cooke]

Warner Bros have released the following statement regarding the two missing shorts Mouse Cleaning and Casanova Cat.

http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=8048

How exactly are the scenes in those two shorts any more or less offensive than the similar scenes in many of the other T&J shorts. :confused:

I might have been able to swallow that excuse if they were talking about "His Mouse Friday" or something...

[nickramer]

How exactly are the scenes in those two shorts any more or less offensive than the similar scenes in many of the other T&J shorts. :confused:


Because the family division is run by ignorant dummies. Looks like I'll just be buying "Fraggle Rock: Season 3" tomorrow.

[Leviathan]

As if I needed yet another reason to stay far away from this hackjob.

I really, really hope that George Felsteinstein, Jerry, Earl Kress and others can convince WHV to do a REAL Tom and Jerry set with everything uncut and restored.

[Gordan]

Warner Bros have released the following statement regarding the two missing shorts Mouse Cleaning and Casanova Cat.


http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=8048


The statement WB made on this issue is way more offensive than anything that ever appeared in a Tom and Jerry cartoon. I planned to buy this release tomorrow morning, but now, after reading this arrogant and condescending statement, I am really, really wondering whether I should just ignore this DVD set and sell the other two on Ebay...A group of trained monkeys would have done a better job than the "family" unit of WB. I just don't know which "family" they represent. Mine certainly not...

This set is not even worth discussing...

[Sogturtle]

How exactly are the scenes in those two shorts any more or less offensive than the similar scenes in many of the other T&J shorts. :confused:

I might have been able to swallow that excuse if they were talking about "His Mouse Friday" or something...

Yeah so many things just don't make a whole lot of sense with these sets... I wouldn't have been terribly surprised if somebody at Warners hadn't come up with the notion of including them as "Easter Eggs".

[bj_wanlund]

Warner Bros have released the following statement regarding the two missing shorts Mouse Cleaning and Casanova Cat.



http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=8048
Ugh...

Well, at least they're TRYING not to offend...

I'll probably buy this set anyway, just because a) I'm jonesing for a T&J fix and b) the equally arrogant [jerks] at (No) Cartoon Network can't even bother to show these great cartoons anymore. They shoved it off to Boomerang, along with their best original content (Dexter's Lab comes to mind). I've chosen to boycott them, and no one else can stop me.

BJ

[mikematei]

So can we get a replacement disc that has those cartoons? Because I am not buying this set without those cartoons.

[millsie]

What is the disclaimer that they use for the LTGC? Isn't it something like that to not show these cartoons is to pretend that they never existed which would be a white wash of their history? I can't remember the exact words.

[LTS]

Warner probably figured that it'd be wrong to release that statement the day after the 11th, how many people would be thinking it was a bad idea to pre-order that set on online stores weeks before its release? Thats why Warner kept it til the last minute to release that statement.

[GeniusIntheLamp]

I'm taking the same approach to T&J that I've taken toward the Three Stooges; wait until they do it right. While I'm on the subject, WCIU-TV has shown the Three Stooges short THE YOKE'S ON ME, which contain racial (i.e. Japanese) stereotypes more outrageous than any cartoon blackface gag. Do you know what? No one's complained about it.

I think most of us have progressed to the point where we can take these cartoons in their proper historical perspective. Again, I'll continue to wait.

[LTS]

I'm taking the same approach to T&J that I've taken toward the Three Stooges; wait until they do it right. While I'm on the subject, WCIU-TV has shown the Three Stooges short THE YOKE'S ON ME, which contain racial (i.e. Japanese) stereotypes more outrageous than any cartoon blackface gag. Do you know what? No one's complained about it.

I think most of us have progressed to the point where we can take these cartoons in their proper historical perspective. Again, I'll continue to wait.

I dont know if you know but the Stooges are getting done right.

http://www.sonypictures.com/homevideo/catalog/catalogDetail_DVD043396211049.html

Each in 3 year sequences and thats the first one, coming out October 30 each set are in chronological order and that first volume will have the first 19 shorts.

[Curious Orange]

Hey, if you saw the abominations that WHV have released of T&J :tomcat: :jerry: over here on R2 in the UK, you guys would be thanking your lucky stars you got as good a set as you did.

The reason has nothing to do with offensiveness, that's just the excuse - somebody ****ed up, it's as simple as that.


Why can't they just do these things right in the first place???

[MF TOON]

I realize that we all post on this forum as enthusiasts and fans of classic cartoons, but after reading that press statement I would hope that anybody who cares at all about classic cinema, film animation and preservation, goes out of their way to NOT purchase this thoughtless set!


This company's treatment of the MGM franchise has been far more offensive than anything that could have ever possibly turned up in a cartoon!


If you willingly offer WHV your money for this set, you are only weighing in your support of such practices. Even if not outright, what you are saying is that you are a consumer first and foremost and regardless of how thoughtless and backwards an approach a company might take in releasing their film properties to home video, even if it is not in the consumer's best interest and even if it disgraces the film content itself, you will support it... because it's the only thing out there.

Bull***t!


If you willingly opt to NOT support WHV's contemptible degrading tactics and forcefully withhold your hard-earned money from the corporate pocket... all cartoon fans will have a much better chance at eventually seeing this series done right, as it will show that there is a much stronger market of fans out there who WOULD pay money for a quality thoughtful package. Otherwise, the company will assume that it can get away with doing whatever it likes and that they will profit equally, even if they are absolutely defacing these classic films in the process and the result is subpar quality.


Do not support censorship of classic film, cartoons, or any other art form!

Especially when so brazenly flaunted by a company like WB and given their past promises to deliver on these collections!


I'm sorry I ever wasted time with their replacement programs. I've since sold off both earlier sets and would not consider placing this new one on my media shelf if I were paid to do so!

[gdX]

Three dozen fanatics organizing a boycott on an enthusiasts' online forum won't register the teeniest blip on the Warner corporate radar... with the recent admission that cartoons were deliberately left off, it's clear that the WB family division is concerned only with maximum sales, and that's done by chasing the soccer-mom demographic, where there is exactly ZERO discrimination, and no complaints registered or discs returned over quality issues.

The better course of action is to solicit a compelling spokesman such as Jerry Beck to sell the suits on the notion that MGM cartoons need to be moved over to the collectors / archives division... starting with a Tex Avery box.

The ace in our pocket is that the very-nicely-done Popeye and Looney Tunes are (presumably) selling well enough to justify such a move... a Tex box should sell comparably well, paving the way for a proper 6-disc T&J box a few years from now once the shoddy Spotlight sets are played out.

Me?... I dunno... I bought T&J v2 (used), ordered a replacement disc that hasn't shown up yet... guess I could stick with my laserdiscs, but if I find used Spotlights for cheap, why not?

Waving my arms in indignation over 'the unacceptable T&J situation' seems as valuable as WB hinting we should buy the Droopy set to ensure delivery of an Avery box – i.e., pointless... better to petition for better future product.

It seems to have worked for Popeye... and Woody.

:twoshoes:

[rkish]

I share your outrage as well Oliver...

I will hence hold off purchase of Volume 3 and possibly consider selling off the first two volumes.

Looks like it's time to dust off my LDs and watch them again. The quality is still very good at least they included ALL of the shorts.

Rich

[MF TOON]

Three dozen fanatics organizing a boycott on an enthusiasts' online forum won't register the teeniest blip on the Warner corporate radar... with the recent admission that cartoons were deliberately left off, it's clear that the WB family division is concerned only with maximum sales, and that's done by chasing the soccer-mom demographic, where there is exactly ZERO discrimination, and no complaints registered or discs returned over quality issues.

The better course of action is to solicit a compelling spokesman such as Jerry Beck to sell the suits on the notion that MGM cartoons need to be moved over to the collectors / archives division... starting with a Tex Avery box.

The ace in our pocket is that the very-nicely-done Popeye and Looney Tunes are (presumably) selling well enough to justify such a move... a Tex box should sell comparably well, paving the way for a proper 6-disc T&J box a few years from now once the shoddy Spotlight sets are played out.

Me?... I dunno... I bought T&J v2 (used), ordered a replacement disc that hasn't shown up yet... guess I could stick with my laserdiscs, but if I find used Spotlights for cheap, why not?

Waving my arms in indignation over 'the unacceptable T&J situation' seems as valuable as WB hinting we should buy the Droopy set to ensure delivery of an Avery box – i.e., pointless... better to petition for better future product.

It seems to have worked for Popeye... and Woody.

:twoshoes:

I agree that petitioning for the films to be transferred from the hands of the family division to the classic film dept. is indeed the best course of action, but you are downright wrong if you think that only three dozen people on a messageboard care. The wonders of the internet make it so that thousands of likeminded people on an international scale can congregate on forums like these to share similar interests. There are dozens of animation outposts on the web, home video sites, blogs, etc. THOUSANDS of people read and follow these pages. Not just geeky cartoon fans, but industry people as well. Animators, studio personnel, children, adults alike. The fact is, that if this set sells significantly less than previous sets, WHV will have to consider why that is. And when they look at their decisions to knowingly censor content and their overall treatment of these films in contrast to what WE'VE been pleading for years now, they will have to take notice and it will register that maybe, just maybe, the market is out there for a better produced collection of MGM cartoons. And perhaps if done right, these films can earn the company even more money by appealing to an entirely new market demographic. That is all that they care about anyway.

I'd like to see something about this posted on Cartoon Brew.

[Bugsy-Kun]

Warner Bros have released the following statement regarding the two missing shorts Mouse Cleaning and Casanova Cat.



http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=8048

I still feel insulted that this two shorts omitted of the collection. "Mouse Cleaning" is one of the real best Tom & Jerry ever released and "Casanova Cat" is one of real greatest of the 1950's. Luckily i got a uncut copy of "Casanova Cat", i guess i don't miss something of this odd collection.

I got only the second volume through the circonstances, but i still feel bad for ay T&J fans who wish a real DVD Box-Set treatment for this cartoon characters. But WB still didn't care anymore. :mad:

[Larry T]

So much for ever trusting the corporate hype machine.

Censorship is already the practice of allowing a select group of individuals to make judgements for a much larger populace, no matter what the opinions of that populace may be, with the intent on 'protecting' that populace.

Witholding those two cartoons from the set is basically calling anyone considering buying it brainless morons who need to be protected from so-called 'questionable content'. Issuing that following contradictive and condescending statement just slapped us in the face to drive their point home.

I'm glad I did what I did 6 years ago. :tomcat: :jerry: :twoshoes: Foresight is a wonderful thing.

[ohmahaaha]

How exactly are the scenes in those two shorts any more or less offensive than the similar scenes in many of the other T&J shorts. :confused:

I might have been able to swallow that excuse if they were talking about "His Mouse Friday" or something...
They aren't any more or less offensive, Jon - the whole excuse is a crock. The real deal: this is just their way of saying there won't be a replacement disc this time.

[ohmahaaha]

So can we get a replacement disc that has those cartoons? Because I am not buying this set without those cartoons.
Uh, I think that would be a resounding "no" ... unfortunately.

[ohmahaaha]

I still feel insulted that this two shorts omitted of the collection. "Mouse Cleaning" is one of the real best Tom & Jerry ever released and "Casanova Cat" is one of real greatest of the 1950's. Luckily i got a uncut copy of "Casanova Cat", i guess i don't miss something of this odd collection.

Bugsy-Kun: I haven't seen "casanova Cat" for at least 20 years ... clue me in. What is so objectionable in that one??

[gdX]

They aren't any more or less offensive, Jon - the whole excuse is a crock.Agreed... probably some dumb coincidence where some pinhead suit saw two titles he didn't like, made a royal proclamation, and his edict becomes more important than actual content... likely unaware of film history or his own company's promise to issue original content.

Very bad... but this wouldn't happen if the MGM library could be yanked over to the collectors side, where Jerry and George can babysit.

"casanova Cat"... What is so objectionable in that one??Casanova Cat... Tom entertains girl cat with a toy – Jerry... at one point, Jerry is covered with smoke, sprouts a minstrel-type face and is forced to do a dance to the tune of Swanee River... no better or worse than other released instances.

[Bugsy-Kun]

Bugsy-Kun: I haven't seen "casanova Cat" for at least 20 years ... clue me in. What is so objectionable in that one??

Oh i'm sorry. I have a agreement with gdx, it's probably cause of this it was ommited but it's regardless ridicuous like decision. I added it in my blog for refresh the memory of someone: Casanova Cat (http://animaencyclopedia.blogspot.com/2007/09/tom-and-jerry-casanova-cat-1951.html)

[Joe H]

Agreed... probably some dumb coincidence where some pinhead suit saw two titles he didn't like, made a royal proclamation, and his edict becomes more important than actual content... likely unaware of film history or his own company's promise to issue original content.


I'm guessing this was decided sometime before Collection #3 was in production, since there are still cartoons with similar scenes in this set, particularly in A Mouse in the House and His Mouse Friday.

And, man, that zoomed shot of Jerry is His Mouse Friday looks tortured, especially with the cannibal's lips still visible at the edge of the screen. I'm not exactly sure why they really needed to hide that little guy, since you can still see his face while chasing Jerry in the same shot.

[LTS]

Could it be possible that they forgot to include these two shorts and realised at the last minute?


Here are the two shorts in question for anyone who hasnt watched them.

Mouse Cleaning

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Fe9cscou3g

Casanova Cat

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5YlMKJ2XB2Y

[storrs19]

I passed on this collection at Wal-Mart for this very reason. I am sick of half-a**ed collections. I have the above two cartoons already on dvd undedited so I will watch them that way. Nice to see them on YouTube as well. That is where I watch most of my tv now. LOL

[Nelson]

I've been saying it for years, on how bad WHV has mistreated and disrespected the MGM cartoons and it gives me more the reasons not to pick up this set.Thank god I have all the Tom & Jerry cartoons UNCUT and UNCENSORED in beautiful looking prints.

[rkish]

I'm glad I did what I did 6 years ago. :tomcat: :jerry: :twoshoes: Foresight is a wonderful thing.

I assume you meant the purchase of the LDs Larry? I'm glad I did the very same thing...not only are they complete, but the art on the box and insert is wonderful...blows away anything we've seen on the DVD collections!

[pablo]

Just cancelled my Amazon preorder. I hope in the future we will see multi-disc MGM sets from WB's classic films division, not family entertainment.

[Larry T]

I assume you meant the purchase of the LDs Larry? I'm glad I did the very same thing...not only are they complete, but the art on the box and insert is wonderful...blows away anything we've seen on the DVD collections!

Hi Rick....

That's not exactly what I meant..... Although after my little endeavour I could safely sell off my laserdiscs, as the prints were now second-rate ;)

I totally agree, though- the artwork was magnificent... unlike the crappy cut-and-paste clipart we've had on previous sets.

[Dave Bennett]

I am sitting here laughing at the steam you effetes are generating.

I better put on my teflon suit and barricade the doors before I say . . .

. . . I am going to buy this set and enjoy the heck out of it, just as I did the previous two and I'm not going to worry about what's not included -- especially since those shorts are available elsewhere!!

Are you guys Constitutional vigilantes or animation fans??

[Batman91]

I am sitting here laughing at the steam you effetes are generating.

I better put on my teflon suit and barricade the doors before I say . . .

. . . I am going to buy this set and enjoy the heck out of it, just as I did the previous two and I'm not going to worry about what's not included -- especially since those shorts are available elsewhere!!

Are you guys Constitutional vigilantes or animation fans??

Haha...Amen to that! Finally someone who still lilkes Tom and Jerry whether a set be perfect or not. I bought this the first day it came out. Whether the set includes all the toons or some, or whether they're remastered or not it's still Tom and Jerry and they're still enjoyable. To me at least....

[Bugsmer]

They could have just as easily left out "Barbeque Brawl" and "The Dog House" and given the same excuse. It sounds a lot like somebody screwed up and WHV is giving an excuse rather than fixing the problem. At this point, though, a lot of their previous customers are too fed up to care about their third mistake running.

[David Gerstein]

Could it be possible that they forgot to include these two shorts and realised at the last minute?Interesting suggestion, but I'm afraid not. MOUSE CLEANING and CASANOVA CAT were definitely removed for their racial content—and at the last minute, too (you'll notice some clips from them are still in the DVD set's ads and supplemental features).
This was not, as you and others have conjectured, a case of the shorts being left off by accident, with content issues being brought in to retroactively cover up for the mistake. There was no mistake here.
I'm also aware that Warner Home Video execs read the complaints posted on amazon.com; so if anyone wants to make themselves heard, this (http://www.amazon.com/Tom-Jerry-Spotlight-Collection-Vol/dp/B000R7GKPK/ref=pd_bbs_sr_2/104-5818080-5883111?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1189639948&sr=8-2) is the place to speak out.

[ohmahaaha]

I am sitting here laughing at the steam you effetes are generating.

I better put on my teflon suit and barricade the doors before I say . . .

. . . I am going to buy this set and enjoy the heck out of it, just as I did the previous two and I'm not going to worry about what's not included -- especially since those shorts are available elsewhere!!

Are you guys Constitutional vigilantes or animation fans??
We are animation fans, otherwise we wouldn't be posting to this site.

We are also collectors, who like to have a complete collection of something they care a great deal about.

We are also adults, who are capable of making up our own minds about what is or is not appropriate, as opposed to somebody else making up our minds for us.

We are also customers, who according to an old adage, are "always right" ... and have a right to speak up and complain if we don't like a product that is for sale.

I'm glad for you that you're not concerned and intend to buy - enjoy.

[Leviathan]

Interesting suggestion, but I'm afraid not. MOUSE CLEANING and CASANOVA CAT were definitely removed for their racial content—and at the last minute, too (you'll notice some clips from them are still in the DVD set's ads and supplemental features).
This was not, as you and others have conjectured, a case of the shorts being left off by accident, with content issues being brought in to retroactively cover up for the mistake. There was no mistake here.

However, the 35 cartoons thing was one of the first things that was officially announced about the set, before and on the DVD ads.

I think it's also possible that some exec at Warner wanted 35 cartoons on the set as a nice round number (which is a theory brought up by one of our friends on another forum), and thus arbitrarily picked two "racial content" cartoons to be left off to give a "concrete" reason for omitting them (which would better explain why Casanova Cat got the axe, and not His Mouse Friday).

That would not be far-fetched for a coproration, especially one with as much of a history of screwing things up as Warner's family divison.

[Batman91]

Maybe we should be thanking them for omitting two cartoons. That way there will always be something else to collect....jk:rolleyes:

[David Gerstein]

I think it's also possible that some exec at Warner wanted 35 cartoons on the set as a nice round number [...] and thus arbitrarily picked two "racial content" cartoons to be left offAgain, another interesting theory; but it's my understanding that this is not the case. The two shorts were axed for the reasons given by Warner, and no other.

[OurGangAlfalfa]

We are animation fans, otherwise we wouldn't be posting to this site.

We are also collectors, who like to have a complete collection of something they care a great deal about.

We are also adults, who are capable of making up our own minds about what is or is not appropriate, as opposed to somebody else making up our minds for us.

We are also customers, who according to an old adage, are "always right" ... and have a right to speak up and complain if we don't like a product that is for sale.

I'm glad for you that you're not concerned and intend to buy - enjoy.ouch.

[Bugsmer]

Maybe we should be thanking them for omitting two cartoons. That way there will always be something else to collect....jk:rolleyes:

The ideal marketing ploy! They can release full seasons of TV shows with all but two episodes, and movies ending three quarters of the way through (you can fit two movies on a disc that way). The poor shmuck who wants them all will have to buy and buy again. Why release something properly the first time when you can prolong it? They'll go down in history with the very films they made. Capital!

[JPox]

A theroy that comes to mind,
Could the recent Tom & Jerry Tales have any effect?
Parents who aren't animation enthusisats could blindly buy their children these sets and be shockingly surprised by certain gags.
WHV is probably covering their butts if something like that ever happend....
If there was no Tom & Jerry Tales, would the sets have been uncut from the start?

I haven't picked up the set, but I wouldn't mind seeing the Cinemascope cartoons in their rightful aspect ratio. Maybe when it winds up in the cheap bin?

[millsie]

Are the racial stereotypes in the two omitted shorts as extreme as the Lantz short "Boogie Woogie Bugle Boy From Company B" which Universal has just released on DVD with the Woody & Friends collection? Has the Woody & Friends set had any flack for having this short on it?

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Wasn't Mouse Cleaning released uncut on videotape years ago? Did Turner or whoever put out the video get any flack from it?

[J. J. Hunsecker]

I just got off the phone with Warner Home Video (1-866-488-4640) and I was told that they do plan on having replacement discs for the two censored cartoons.

People here should call up and see if they get the same results.

[Joe H]

I just got off the phone with Warner Home Video (1-866-488-4640) and I was told that they do plan on having replacement discs for the two censored cartoons.

People here should call up and see if they get the same results.

Wow, I'd be quite pleased if this is true. Sure, It means going through that rigamaroll with their customer service, but at least we'll have a complete collection.

Edit: I didn't get a straight answer regarding the possibility of a replacement disc, though the person on the other line took note of it the problem. I remain skeptical.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Wow, I'd be quite pleased if this is true. Sure, It means going through that rigamaroll with their customer service, but at least we'll have a complete collection.
Well, I hope the lady I talked to wasn't lying to me, but she told me there would be a replacement disc. I made sure to reiterate that the replacement disc would be for volume 3, and she said yes. But call the number yourself and find out if it is true.

[Mr. Jinks]

However, the 35 cartoons thing was one of the first things that was officially announced about the set, before and on the DVD ads.

I think it's also possible that some exec at Warner wanted 35 cartoons on the set as a nice round number....
They could've had 40 cartoons if they included these two, add the two Spike and Tyke cartoons and Good Will To Men as a bonus.


Wasn't Mouse Cleaning released uncut on videotape years ago? Did Turner or whoever put out the video get any flack from it?
Yes it was, and so was Casanova Cat and His Mouse Friday (without the cannibal dialogue)

I've been trying to figure out why they left these two cartoons out while His Mouse Friday has been left in, especially when Boomerang plays the former two and the latter is shown once in a blue moon on TCM.

Most of the other cartoons have blackface gags where something explodes and you see the character in blackface...that's it. In Mouse Cleaning, Tom is in blackface, and he's walking and talking in a stereotypical manner. In Casanova Cat, Tom blows cigar smoke in Jerry's face, puts him on a plate then lights it underneath forcing him to tap dance to Swanee River.

I can somewhat understand why they would want to leave it out.

Maybe this whole replacement disc thing is a way of selling the toons to the general public and giving real enthusiasts and toon lovers what they want (uncut toons) without public backlash.

Maybe that's why we haven't initially received uncut versions of The Milky Waif (which has an extended blackface gag) or The Little Orphan, or toons with the original Mammy Two-Shoes voice. Assuming they will have a replacement disc for Volume 3, they can still sell their toons and we can get the other 2 uncut a few weeks afterwards.

Maybe it's Warners punk-a** way of playing it safe....

[Bugsmer]

Does anyone know if "Life With Tom" is uncut?

[Freiberger]

Maybe this whole replacement disc thing is a way of selling the toons to the general public and giving real enthusiasts and toon lovers what they want (uncut toons) without public backlash.

Maybe that's why we haven't initially received uncut versions of The Milky Waif (which has an extended blackface gag) or The Little Orphan, or toons with the original Mammy Two-Shoes voice. Assuming they will have a replacement disc for Volume 3, they can still sell their toons and we can get the other 2 uncut a few weeks afterwards.

Maybe it's Warners punk-a** way of playing it safe....

My guess is just the opposite. In the past, they put cut cartoons on the dvd and then there were complaints about the content. That forced them to spend money remastering the dvds and mailing out the replacement discs. If they leave the cartoons off the disc entirely, they don't have to correct a content mistake and issue replacement discs. You can't ask them to fix something that they didn't put on the disc in the first place.

Bill

[Noisejunkie]

I picked up a copy of this yesterday. While I definitely share the same anger as the rest of you about the exclusion of "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat," I just wanted to enjoy the rest of the cartoons. I've only zipped through a few things and here are a few impressions:

1. The Cinemascope cartoons all look great, except for some reason, "Pup on a Picnic's" titles are letterboxed for 2:35, but then switches to 1:85 for the cartoon.

2. The documentary was pretty good, though the question remains why they made such a big deal about "censorship issues" when they excluded two supposedly "offensive" cartoons.

3. The prints on the first disc are the usual scratchy variety we're no doubt "used to" by now.

These impressions have been gathered by looking at the discs in bits and pieces. Unfortunately, I have to take mine back to the store because disc one on my copy has a really bad scratch that causes the picture on several cartoons to mess up. And I HATE those overlapping disc packages! There ought to be a law against them.

Just my two cents, for whatever it's worth.

[Spike]

Strangely enough, the european edition of Tom and Jerry on dvd "The Classic Collection" has these two shorts without any editing whatsoever.. Even the Mammy voice in Mouse Cleaning is original.. Now this I don't understand!!:confused:

[sumnernor]

In case you would like to see other peoples "happeness" look at:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=262099 (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=260537)

EDIT: This thread is now the current thread - the previous was much older

[Joe H]

Does anyone know if "Life With Tom" is uncut?

Yes, it is. I watched it yesterday.

[Bugsmer]

Yes, it is. I watched it yesterday.

Excellent! That means they only screwed up on three cartoons, the same number they screwed up the first time out, and a smaller number than their second outing. They lose a point, however, for not including "Texas Tom", and another one for leaving out "Oh, Teacher".

Thanks for checking, Joe.

[David Gerstein]

[...] and another one for leaving out "Oh, Teacher".???!!!:rabbit:???!!!

[Bugsmer]

???!!!:rabbit:???!!!

Shhhh. If they think they goofed and left it off, they might include it at some future time on a future release. Naturally, we'll have to keep our fingers crossed.

[Mr. Jinks]

Shhhh. If they think they goofed and left it off, they might include it at some future time on a future release. Naturally, we'll have to keep our fingers crossed.

It's the sequel to Little School Mouse
lol

[Mac]

I won't bother getting this set. I got the first two sets because, despite the flaws, it was a cheap way to get lots of very enjoyable Tom and Jerry cartoons (plus the first set I'd already pre-ordered before I found out it was edited). Now I've got loads of excellent animation sets to finish watching (and keep rewatching) with more on the more way this year. I'lll wait until the eventual collectors edition (I'm sure it'll happen) that'll hopefully feature better quality restorations. Of course, when this does happen, they'll probably mess up and include cropped, unrestored versions of the cinemascope cartoons!

[Bugsmer]

I'lll wait until the eventual collectors edition (I'm sure it'll happen) that'll hopefully feature better quality restorations. Of course, when this does happen, they'll probably mess up and include cropped, unrestored versions of the cinemascope cartoons!

If they do that, you'll be ahead of the game, since you already have some good-looking Cinemescope cartoons on the two DVD sets you own.

[thebiach]

I called and they had not heard anything yet about a replacement disc for Volume 3...they've gotten multiple inquiries they said but no official word...

Nic

[kaseykockroach]

Just rented the set, and checked it out. Despite many problems(dull documentary, two cartoons missing) I'm finding myself enjoying the set somewhat. If only for the reason that it includes Framed Cat.;)

[J. J. Hunsecker]

I called and they had not heard anything yet about a replacement disc for Volume 3...they've gotten multiple inquiries they said but no official word...

Nic
After I read your post I called the Warner Home Video toll number and once again asked if there will be a replacement disc. The operator (this time a man) said, yes there will be. I don't understand why we would have gotten two different responses. Did you call the same number as me? (1-866-488-4640)

[AcmeCoyote]

Gotta love how they show the "offensive" scene from "Mouse Cleaning" in the bonus doumentary.

So, let me get this straight: they can show the scene during the bonus feature, but they can't show the rest of the cartoon? Perhaps it wasn't the blackface gag that they deemed offensive, but rather the unsightly mess that Tom has to clean from the walls. :rolleyes:

[Spike]

After I read your post I called the Warner Home Video toll number and once again asked if there will be a replacement disc. The operator (this time a man) said, yes there will be. I don't understand why we would have gotten two different responses. Did you call the same number as me? (1-866-488-4640)

Does anyone know if Warner Home Video sends replacement discs to Europe as I'd like to change my first Tom and Jerry Spotlight Collection disc?

[sumnernor]

Does anyone know if Warner Home Video sends replacement discs to Europe as I'd like to change my first Tom and Jerry Spotlight Collection disc?

I am fairly sure that you can. For the 2 Looney tunes/T&J replacements, I used friends in the US but haven't time to call: I just got an email from Disney and they are sending to me the replacements.

I wasn't going to reply yet as I am busy getting ready for a trip. I ordered the Tom & Jerry before I heard about the "missing cartoons". I also ordered something else. In the order confirmation - it mentioned it would be sent the next day! This has never happened before. The next day is when I got the order sending confirmation. I then heard about the missing cartoonshttp://www.goldenagecartoons.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif. I suspect that I could not change the order circa an hour after making the originally order. I suspect that AMAZON knew something and acted promptly so that they would not lose orders. I am very happy with the 20 responses for the T&J #3 - there were many angry replies- mostly 1 star. My order is probably somewhere around New Zealand (for months they send orders to Germany via New Zealand!!!?

Curious Orange posted on GAC (Page 2 #16) "Hey, if you saw the abominations that WHV have released of T&J over here on R2 in the UK, you guys would be thanking your lucky stars you got as good a set as you did." I sort of agree with that statement. The 10 DVD set "Tom & Jerry - The Classic Collection" was horrible done - cut and cut and modified. I have sort of "double dipped" by getting the R1 NTSC sets. Even with the worts, they are much better than what was sold in England/German/France etc (and probably Australia). There was also one cartoon missing from that set. Disks 10-12 had the cartoons from Jones & Deitch. Does anyone in the PAL land know if these cartoons are edited????

MFTOON:Posted here in GAC (Page 2 #20). He said " I'd like to see something about this posted on Cartoon Brew." For Jerry's job, it would not be wise for him to be publically critical of the missing cartoons. We needed at WB and hopefully the fans reaction will convince WB to release the whole T&J under his group.

Someone in some forum stated that cartoons MOUSE CLEANING (#3) and CASANOVA CAT (#5) are in the R2 Classic collection and were unedited - they are on disks 3 and 5. I looked at the You-tube cartoons and then on my DVD - and as the poster stated - they not modified in the classic collection !!!!! Almost everything else is. I must say, having looked at the 2 cartoons - I can't see why some stupid manager thought that they were especially bad!http://www.goldenagecartoons.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif

[Spike]

There was also one cartoon missing from that set. Disks 10-12 had the cartoons from Jones & Deitch. Does anyone in the PAL land know if these cartoons are edited????

No the Deitch and Jones cartoons are all unedited.. There are actually 2 Hanna-Barbera shorts missing : The Million Dollar Cat and also Busy Buddies!!
I would actually recomend those three volumes 10 - 12 to anyone who would like the Deitch and Jones cartoons.. Nice!!

[ohmahaaha]

Gotta love how they show the "offensive" scene from "Mouse Cleaning" in the bonus doumentary.

So, let me get this straight: they can show the scene during the bonus feature, but they can't show the rest of the cartoon? Perhaps it wasn't the blackface gag that they deemed offensive, but rather the unsightly mess that Tom has to clean from the walls. :rolleyes:
You are kidding. That is outrageous, man. But then again, that reminds me of volume 2: in the commentary, the people doing the commentary talk about Lillian Randolph as the voice of Mammy Two-Shoes - but the voice you hear in the background is the DUBBED version!! Meanwhile, if you go and play the cartoon WITHOUT the commentary, it IS the Lillian Randolph version!!

These have got to be the most incompetent people working for Warner Family Division. I guess we should be glad they're not working at a nuclear plant somewhere.

[sumnernor]

No the Deitch and Jones cartoons are all unedited.. There are actually 2 Hanna-Barbera shorts missing : The Million Dollar Cat and also Busy Buddies!!
I would actually recomend those three volumes 10 - 12 to anyone who would like the Deitch and Jones cartoons.. Nice!!

Thanks. There are also post-Deitch/Jones done by Hanna-Barbara but not at all the quality of the earlier. None of these have made it to DVD. In this series , Tom and Jerry are the best of friends.

[ferpme]

I tried the first # offered of WHV..1-866-488-4640. The woman that answered sounded clueless, and forwarded me to 1-800-364-6928. THAT person was just as clueless....but took down my email and name and phone number and said she'd "send it upstairs".
We'll see. I'll update you if/when I hear anything.
The replacement disc system is flawed...but better than NOT getting the replaced cartoons at all.
I guess I'm a believer that if we DON'T support this set-and others like this-that the chances of a deluxe set become even SLIMMER. My feeling is that, if the three T/J sets sell decent as is...THEN they'll get greedy and go for a deluxe set.
I bought the Woody Woodpecker set for this reason-to support more cartoons being released, primarily. And I'm enjoying the heck out of it. Do I dislike the digital compression? Yes....but feel it is better to buy the sets and COMPLAIN about it then to not by it...showing no interest REFLECTS no interest....showing displeasure and voicing complaints/criticisms/critiques just MIGHT make things better.
Course....I'm a naive fool, too.....but I spelled out everything I could to the lady on the phone dictating the message....and used my standard line: "It's a shame that I can go to a video store and by 'FACES OF DEATH 11', but I can't buy uncut cartoons.":bugs2: :sowhite:

[thebiach]

You are kidding. That is outrageous, man. But then again, that reminds me of volume 2: in the commentary, the people doing the commentary talk about Lillian Randolph as the voice of Mammy Two-Shoes - but the voice you hear in the background is the DUBBED version!! Meanwhile, if you go and play the cartoon WITHOUT the commentary, it IS the Lillian Randolph version!!

These have got to be the most incompetent people working for Warner Family Division. I guess we should be glad they're not working at a nuclear plant somewhere.

thats because they were watching the edited version when they did the commentary...how dumb would it be to call them back into the studio just to re-record their commentary over the original? VERY DUMB

[ohmahaaha]

thats because they were watching the edited version when they did the commentary...how dumb would it be to call them back into the studio just to re-record their commentary over the original? VERY DUMB
I reiterate: In the commentary they specifically mention Lillian Randolph as doing the voice, when the version they were playing for the commentary was the dubbed version.

How dumb is it to comment on something that's not there? VERY DUMB.

And speaking of very dumb ... can anyone explain to me how some of the same kids who watch this Tom & Jerry Spotlight 3 DVD with "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat" omitted due to racial content, will be able to purchase a Southpark DVD later this year and laugh at an episode titled "Mr. Hankey the Christmas Poo?" (And relax Southpark fans, I've got nothing against S.P. - I'm just sayin', where's the justice??)

[David Gerstein]

can anyone explain to me how some of the same kids who [will not be able to see] racial content, will be able to [see] "Mr. Hankey the Christmas Poo?"I'd like to own a complete Tom and Jerry DVD set as much as the next guy, Ohmahaaha, but you're essentially equating objections to racial stereotypes with objections to bathroom humor. There is a world of difference here. I've been in close contact with people who treated minority members badly after naively taking popular stereotypes seriously. Sometimes, in junior high school, I was one of the minority members who got treated badly. You can't compare this to a talking turd.

[ohmahaaha]

I'd like to own a complete Tom and Jerry DVD set as much as the next guy, Ohmahaaha, but you're essentially equating objections to racial stereotypes with objections to bathroom humor. There is a world of difference here. I've been in close contact with people who treated minority members badly after naively taking popular stereotypes seriously. Sometimes, in junior high school, I was one of the minority members who got treated badly. You can't compare this to a talking turd.
David, as far as equating racial stereotypes with objections to bathroom humor - that was not what I was trying to say. It's nothing new to me to hear of ill treatment by some of our less intelligent population.

The idea that they have omitted "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat" due to racial content, and their stating as such, is totally bogus to me. You can't say you're doing that, when you've already released several cartoons (i.e. "Droopy's Good Deed" just to name one) that demonstrate stereotypes that are just as bad if not worse.

So what I was trying to say was calling the concept of "taste" and hypocrisy into question, which if not really a racial thing - which it can't be as far as I'm concerned because of the aforementioned previously released content - it's either a question of taste or else it's a fear of public backlash. If it's not an issue of "taste" on the part of the company releasing, then it's certainly paranoic overreaction to all the negative media hype regarding incidents like what happened with Don Imus and Michael Richards.

I'm sure lots of people were offended by what they said; does this mean that none of us can go back and enjoy an old Richard Pryor album? Does it uphold moral standards to axe "Mouse Cleaning" on this DVD, but rent "Faces of Death" or "Mr. Hankey" to some kid at Blockbuster?

[Treadwell]

The idea that they have omitted "Mouse Cleaning" and "Casanova Cat" due to racial content, and their stating as such, is totally bogus to me. You can't say you're doing that, when you've already released several cartoons (i.e. "Droopy's Good Deed" just to name one) that demonstrate stereotypes that are just as bad if not worse.

That's assuming the have the same person or people making these decisions for all the releases, with an overall plan or approach. I think Occham's Razor (or Hanlon's) applies here, especially given the goofs we've already seen from the Family Division. I think a different producer, or Suit, or consultant reviewed the contents of this set, who had not reviewed the others, and made their own personal edict or recommendation.

[Debbie]

Just a theory, but perhaps the success of "Tom and Jerry Tales" on Saturday mornings had WB policing this set with a bit more scrutiny than previous Spotlight collection sets, figuring it may get a sales push with kids from the poularity of the newer series.

[ohmahaaha]

Just a theory, but perhaps the success of "Tom and Jerry Tales" on Saturday mornings had WB policing this set with a bit more scrutiny than previous Spotlight collection sets, figuring it may get a sales push with kids from the poularity of the newer series.
Nah ... the poor quality control of the first two sets leads me to believe that there was almost NO scrutiny to them.

[OurGangAlfalfa]

Cool!!!

[CueBallCat79]

Well I'm just glad I ended up buying those UK DVDs last year. Though despite the fact that I do have uncut versions of the two cartoons in question I'm still miffed they're not on this set especially when the "offensive" scene from Mouse Cleaning is right there on the featurette in it's full unedited glory.

[Debbie]

I had to break down and get this one, because despite not having "Mouse Cleaning", it has some of my all-time favorite Tom and Jerrys..."Hatch Up Your Troubles", "Mouse for Sale", "Robin Hoodwinked" and "That's My Mommy!"

[Jon Cooke]

I had to break down and get this one, because despite not having "Mouse Cleaning", it has some of my all-time favorite Tom and Jerrys..."Hatch Up Your Troubles", "Mouse for Sale", "Robin Hoodwinked" and "That's My Mommy!"

It's a shame WB dropped the ball with this set, I skimmed through a review copy today and the bonus documentary is actually very well done and interesting, the new CinemaScope prints look great, and overall it's a pretty solid selection of classic T&J shorts. However, the two missing cartoons and other minor goofs (the altered ending to "His Mouse Friday", "Pup On a Picnic" being the pan-and-scan version) are too frustrating to ignore. :shame:

[Bugsy-Kun]

It's a shame WB dropped the ball with this set, I skimmed through a review copy today and the bonus documentary is actually very well done and interesting, the new CinemaScope prints look great, and overall it's a pretty solid selection of classic T&J shorts. However, the two missing cartoons and other minor goofs (the altered ending to "His Mouse Friday", "Pup On a Picnic" being the pan-and-scan version) are too frustrating to ignore. :shame:

You mean that "His Mouse Friday" ending is butchering? Big shame! :shame:

[JPox]

I must admit, I picked up a copy.
The minor and major flaws aside, it is a good collection of cartoons.
It's been a while since I've seen a some of these shorts.
You could tell by the end of the original H-B run, the series started to lack ideas.
Spike and Tyke becoming regular characters, no Mammy Two-Shoes, houseowners with faces, T&J working together...
I haven't read this thread for a while, is there a replacement disc offer?

[Bugsmer]

I haven't read this thread for a while, is there a replacement disc offer?

Not yet. There may never be.

[Bugsy-Kun]

I buy it yesterday like a guilty pleasure. I could be impressed by this selection of rarely seen T&J shorts. A lot of these i watched on TV 2-3 years ago but never taped it tough. The documentary is like Jon said, interesting and very nice. And "The Karate Guard" is so far better than the Tom and Jerry Tales episodes series.

But too bad it's ending in this way with the lack of two potential shorts.

I made a review of this set in my DA journal. You can read here (http://hedgehog-rover.deviantart.com/journal/14828673/)

[Thad]

Looks like another set I'll be skipping.

[Jeffitarian]

Ditto. :(

[Duck Dodgers]

Never bougth one of the three releases.
If Jerry will work on Tom and Jerry like he is doing with the LTs and Popeye, then I'll buy any release.

[Jeffitarian]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. These wonderful cartoons deserve a great deal more respect than what they've been given on these Spotlight Collections. I grew up watching Tom and Jerry cartoons unedited during the late 70s and early 80s and it just kills me that I can't go out and buy a DVD set of Tom and Jerry cartoons that has been unmolested by clueless corporate hacks. Tom and Jerry holds a special place in my heart. These were the first cartoons I fell in love with as a child and I haven't seen most of these in years. It looks like I'll have to keep on waiting...

[Jon Cooke]

Matthew reviews the new Spotlight Collection: http://reviews.goldenagecartoons.com/2007/tjvol3/

[Duck Dodgers]

Matthew reviews the new Spotlight Collection: http://reviews.goldenagecartoons.com/2007/tjvol3/

Matthew, I plaude you another of your excellent reviews, but may I suggest you to change the way you do the shots?
They do not come out pretty good;)

[Bugsy-Kun]

Matthew reviews the new Spotlight Collection: http://reviews.goldenagecartoons.com/2007/tjvol3/

I like his review and i agree with him about the DVD in some parts.

[sarah]

Curious Orange posted on GAC (Page 2 #16) "Hey, if you saw the abominations that WHV have released of T&J over here on R2 in the UK, you guys would be thanking your lucky stars you got as good a set as you did." I sort of agree with that statement. The 10 DVD set "Tom & Jerry - The Classic Collection" was horrible done - cut and cut and modified. I have sort of "double dipped" by getting the R1 NTSC sets. Even with the worts, they are much better than what was sold in England/German/France etc (and probably Australia). There was also one cartoon missing from that set. Disks 10-12 had the cartoons from Jones & Deitch. Does anyone in the PAL land know if these cartoons are edited????

Someone in some forum stated that cartoons MOUSE CLEANING (#3) and CASANOVA CAT (#5) are in the R2 Classic collection and were unedited - they are on disks 3 and 5. I looked at the You-tube cartoons and then on my DVD - and as the poster stated - they not modified in the classic collection !!!!! Almost everything else is. I must say, having looked at the 2 cartoons - I can't see why some stupid manager thought that they were especially bad!http://www.goldenagecartoons.com/forums/images/smilies/mad.gif

All these details (with screencaps of the missing material) are listed in my Tom and Jerry Ultimate Censorship Comparison Guide
http://www.worldwidedvdforums.com/kb.php?mode=article&k=1045
Please feel free to correct me if you find any mistakes.

[WoodpeckerWoody]

UK Tom And Jerry Complete Classic Collection (HMV Exclusive 6 flipper disks PAL R2, 159 cartoon boxset) I own a 12 disk version of it but I haven´t yet checked my disk yet. But they only have 159 og 161 cartoons made.

note: the quote is from your site.

[trondmm]

I own a 12 disk version of it but I haven´t yet checked my disk yet. But they only have 159 og 161 cartoons made.

As far as I know, the 12-disk and the 6-disk collections are the same. The 6-disk collection is simply a double sided version of the 12-disk collection.

[sarah]

There were 3 different releases of the Tom and Jerry disks in the uk
All had the same content spread over 12 seperate disks or 6 flippers.

[Eddie Estes]

In case you would like to see other peoples "happeness" look at:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=262099 (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=260537)

EDIT: This thread is now the current thread - the previous was much older

I got banned from there by Robert(I can't stand to be proven wrong) Crawford for taking WHV to task for putting out the first set edited. I think it is funny now how HTF is all upset about this now.
I was told I could get my membership there back if I apologized to Mighty Moderator Crawford. When it gets cold in H#&&!.
WHV family division is the pits. That is being polite!!!
Eddie Estes

[sumnernor]

In case you would like to see other peoples "happeness" look at:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=262099 (http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showthread.php?t=260537)

EDIT: This thread is now the current thread - the previous was much older

I got banned from there by Robert(I can't stand to be proven wrong) Crawford for taking WHV to task for putting out the first set edited. I think it is funny now how HTF is all upset about this now.
I was told I could get my membership there back if I apologized to Mighty Moderator Crawford. When it gets cold in H#&&!.
WHV family division is the pits. That is being polite!!!
Eddie Estes

Eddy, I haven't seen your posts recently, I only started looking at the HTF about the time of getting the replacement for the replacement. I don't understand what you were saying about the HMT before you were banned. Were people not happy then? I looked at the HTF link and people there like GAC are very unhappy about the T&J leaving out the 2 cartoons. "MarcoBiscotti", I think is overreacting. There are 2 issues with T&J. 1) Editing the cartoons due to blackface jokes and 2) tech. problems with the software. For the 2nd Warners is not alone. Hardware may be hi-tech but software not. For the replacement of the replacement of T&J , there were many different reactions and I believe various players can get by the tech errors better. For the 1st problem, on some forum a year or 2 ago, Jerry mentioned that he would like to put out a complete uneditted set. No news about that - Jerry can't say anything due to his contract. With all the worts, as I said above in this thread, I don't think the 3 sets are "S ***" as stated by MarcoBiscotti! You should see what was released in Europe and you would then appreciate the US versions better. I hope that sometime soon, Jerry will have good news. I hope he can persuade the powers that deleted the 2 cartoons that they were wrong.

[Eddie Estes]

When the first T&J set came out it WAS advertised that it would be uncut and remastered. It was neither!!!
A thread started about it. WHV issued a statement that they never said it would be uncut. Robert Crawford who is a moderator there said we couldn't prove that WHV ever said it would be uncut. Someone posted a pic of the advertisement. I posted a transcript of the WHV chat in which it was stated in black and white that the shorts WOULD be uncut.
Ron then said we shouldn't be hard on WHV for a remark that could have been taken out of context. I posted that I didn't post things out of context. They are WHV apologists to the extreme.
I came back from a weekend trip to discover that I was banned. This was done by Robert (crybaby) Crawford without even the courtesy of an email stating that I was banned. If I log in I get a page saying that I am banned forever. The reason on the page: it says NONE.