Big Chief Ugh-Amugh-Ugh

[Vdubdavid]

I figured that since this doesn't specifically deal with the Popeye DVD, I'd make a separate thread.

Does anyone think that the scenes in the middle part of this cartoon were shuffled prior to release? Looking at how the scenes cut to each other, it strikes me that originally Popeye was to have bested the Indians in arrow-shooting and fire-building before eating his spinach.

Now mind you, I'm not saying there's some "director's cut" out there (there's a road I don't want to go down), but there does seem to be something a little off with how the cartoon is structured.

[Ray Pointer]

I figured that since this doesn't specifically deal with the Popeye DVD, I'd make a separate thread.

Does anyone think that the scenes in the middle part of this cartoon were shuffled prior to release? Looking at how the scenes cut to each other, it strikes me that originally Popeye was to have bested the Indians in arrow-shooting and fire-building before eating his spinach.

Now mind you, I'm not saying there's some "director's cut" out there (there's a road I don't want to go down), but there does seem to be something a little off with how the cartoon is structured.

Not at all, The gags had to be the result of the Spinach formula, which enables POPEYE to do the unusual things he does after consuming it. That's the "magic" of the Spinach trasformation that kept audience interest. And finding a new twist on the same gimmic was something that kept the Fleischer storymen, particularly Jack Ward and Bill Turner busy racking their brains.

[Vdubdavid]

I don't think that's quite it. If you watch the film closely and look at how the characters enter and exit the shots. To look at the arrow shooting contest, the Indian fires the arrow and hits the tree. Popeye starts looking around, sees the tall tree at stage left and does an "aha" reaction pose. Then we cut to the Cheif getting angry and dancing over to Popeye. Note that at the start of the close-up shot where Popeye "flips his lid" and says "Something tells me I'm going to get a scalp treatment!" he's standing with his arms folded and a smug look on his face, which he didn't have at the end of the last shot he was in, and shouldn't have had anyway since he didn't shoot the tree into the sun until after the spinach.

Another example comes after Popeye eats the spinach. He drills the stake into the ground, then takes the rope and leaps into the air. However the next shot with Popeye is him making the big fire and fireplace, and he's no longer holding the rope!

It would appear to me that originally this short had a structure similar to other shorts where Popeye does amazing feats without spinach, but eats his spinach to give him the extra edge once the situation gets really dire.

[J Lee]

I don't think that's quite it. If you watch the film closely and look at how the characters enter and exit the shots. To look at the arrow shooting contest, the Indian fires the arrow and hits the tree. Popeye starts looking around, sees the tall tree at stage left and does an "aha" reaction pose. Then we cut to the Cheif getting angry and dancing over to Popeye. Note that at the start of the close-up shot where Popeye "flips his lid" and says "Something tells me I'm going to get a scalp treatment!" he's standing with his arms folded and a smug look on his face, which he didn't have at the end of the last shot he was in, and shouldn't have had anyway since he didn't shoot the tree into the sun until after the spinach.

Another example comes after Popeye eats the spinach. He drills the stake into the ground, then takes the rope and leaps into the air. However the next shot with Popeye is him making the big fire and fireplace, and he's no longer holding the rope!

It would appear to me that originally this short had a structure similar to other shorts where Popeye does amazing feats without spinach, but eats his spinach to give him the extra edge once the situation gets really dire.

The cartoon does look as if Bowsky and/or Dave Fleischer may have decided the ending orignially may not have been strong enough -- unless animation was discarded, it only would have been Popeye breaking free of the fire, jumping on the burrow, roping the other Indians and then puching the chief out -- and so they decided to back-shift the other two scenes (which, of course, since the cartoon is post-recorded, is a lot easier to move around from place to place than a scene from a cartoon where the voice work is done beforehand).

[Ray Pointer]

The cartoon does look as if Bowsky and/or Dave Fleischer may have decided the ending orignially may not have been strong enough -- unless animation was discarded, it only would have been Popeye breaking free of the fire, jumping on the burrow, roping the other Indians and then puching the chief out -- and so they decided to back-shift the other two scenes (which, of course, since the cartoon is post-recorded, is a lot easier to move around from place to place than a scene from a cartoon where the voice work is done beforehand).

Animation would not have been produced and discarded at Fleischer Studios. This as not Disney, remember. At $12,000 to $14,000, they had to bring it in at cost. There was film cutting that may have influenced much of what you describe. Keep in mind also that these cartoons were not meant to be analyized scene-by-scene. It's really, the illusion of it all flowing together with the use of some editing tricks. This was common in a lot of live action films, as well where there were continuity errors.