Cartoon books you'd like to see

[Sean Gaffney]

Say you live in an ideal fantasy world where you have publishers who will agree to put our any book you like to all major chains. Say also that you have an army of Jerry Beck clones with a lot of time on their hands and friendly studios with open door policies. What books on classic animation do you most want to see?

Here's my choices:

1) Complete filmography with plots and background for MGM, Lantz, Terrytoons, Columbia, and basically all the non-Disney/WB studios. Similar to Jerry and Will's Looney Tunes book from 1989. With lots of trivia like "This cartoon is actually a thinly veiled jab at Proust's A La Recherche Du Temps Perdu." and the like.

2) Updated Looney Tunes book from Jerry and Will, with more details and background, and one where WB actually lets them critique the cartoons.

3) Biographies of Friz Freleng, Chuck Jones, Bob Clampett and Bob McKimson. Updated biographies of Tex Avery and Frank Tashlin. With juicy details that would probably be libelous but this is a fantasy world anyway. :)

Anyone else?

[Thad]

History of the American theatrical studios that judges them on their own merits rather than comparison to Disney.
Un-candy-assed biography of Chuck Jones.
Book on animation personnel that did comic book work.
Book on the most important Warner animators (Harris, McKimson, Scribner, Davis, Ross,etc.)
TK

[J. J. Hunsecker]

I'd like to see a biography on Clampett, "warts and all" so to speak. He's my favorite director and a fascinating character.

A coffee table size book on the different styles (and how they developed) of the golden age animators, with lots of still frames of their animation to analyze, would be great.

A more indepth tome on the Warner studio, even covering in more detail the years when their output wasn't so great, would be nice.

I'm also interested in the B-list studios: Famous, Columbia, Terrytoons, etc. Maybe a book on forgotten cartoons and how they happened to come to that fate.

A book on the Lantz cartoons would be good, too.

[kaseykockroach]

A book on some of the least known directors like Tashlin or Davis. Other directors like Jones are extremely overated.

[Jack G.]

I suggested to Jerry Beck that he should do an encyclopedia of Golden Age animated characters (like the Disney one).
From the obvious -Bugs Bunny to the obscure - Scrappy, to cult characters -The Pincushion Man.

Mr Beck said many publishers don't like taking on all the rights issues involved.
But it was a good idea.


A more indepth tome on the Warner studio, even covering in more detail the years when their output wasn't so great, would be nice.
That's on my wishlist as well.
That's All Folks is good but I'd like someone to go all out on the history.

I read somewhere (maybe Barrier's site) that someone was going to compile a book of interviews with Warner people.
I'm looking forward to that.

[Alf]

Books I´d like to see:

-A history of UPA

-A history of Terrytoons

-A history of Lantz (focused on the Lantz studio rather than on Lantz the man, unlike the Joe Adamson biography)

-A history of Famous/Paramount

-Obscure studios of the Golden Age of American Animation (the Romer Grey studio, Ted Esbaugh, Jam Handy, John Sutherland Productions, etc.)

-A history of American T.V. animation (covering the Golden & Silver age, i.e. from 1949´s Crusader Rabbit till the late 60´s/early 70´s)

-Cartoons Who Never Were (Similar to The Disney Who Never Was but covering abandoned projects from all studios other than Disney)

[Leviathan]

Actually I'd like to see a book that chronilces "What Went Wrong" and why cartoons were such crap from the late 60's through the 80's. Ideally, In a Perfect World, I'd really love to see such a book with interviews with people like John K., Tom Minton, Eddie Fitzgerald, Floyd Norman, Mark Evanier, Lyyne Naylor, Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, etc. who survived it all

[Chow Hound]

Actually I'd like to see a book that chronilces "What Went Wrong" and why cartoons were such crap from the late 60's through the 80's. Ideally, In a Perfect World, I'd really love to see such a book with interviews with people like John K., Tom Minton, Eddie Fitzgerald, Floyd Norman, Mark Evanier, Lyyne Naylor, Paul Dini, Bruce Timm, etc. who survived it allI'd buy that!

[Cartman]

Walter Lantz: The Ultimate Visual Guide:woody::chilly::andy::rabbit:

Golden Age Cartoons: Little Known Facts -featuring info on a variety of different cartoons from different studios (e.g. what movies they originally played before, storyboard art, etc.)

[Ray Pointer]

As more an more questions are raised, the need for information results. The answers are usually found in books or magazine aritcles that do get published.
But so many books have already been published in varying degrees of quality and accurate research. Interestingly enough, the entire area of books on the subject of Animation History did not exist until the 1970s when many of my generation saw the value of these treasures and in our own ways set out to tell their stories.

For me, books are only half the story, because it is difficult to communicate the essence of a character or cartoon film in print. Animated cartoons, like all films really have to be seen to be totally realized. It has taken independents such as myself to do what the mainstream continues to dismiss as "lacking an audience" and bring them to the surface for new generations to discover. What is missed is the fact that there is such an audience based on the many sales we have made from fans around the world. So I would think that a combination book and DVD would really make the experience complete. But to get a major publisher/DVD distributor to take on the concept may be too ambitious or imaginative for the mainstream that has to insure that profits can be made on something that is seen as essentially a "niche" market.

[Tom Stathes]

I felt the same way as Ray when I was younger. Sure, I grew up in the VHS age but there was still some lack of availability. I would read about early animation and see some pictures...being a visual art, I was naturally more interested in seeing the films first before reading in depth about them.
Thankfully through the work of many people here and elsewhere, via research, writing, and film preservation there is so much more to discover in this decade - and there is still plenty to cover.

[houserunner]

Book deals with five director's - Avery, Jones, Clampett, Freleng, Tashlin - style, difference, filmography and influences.
I think this book is a great reading for classic cartoon fans.

[klangley]

I'd love to see a book that focuses on the artists rather than the directors. Maybe an in depth A-Z of animators, layout artists and background painters, with little focus on Disney. Mainly MGM, WB, Famous, Lantz and Terrytoons.

[speedy fast]

I would like to see:

*A book on the main WB directors
*A book about the animated segments from Sesame Street
*A book about the history of early television animation (maybe going from Crusader Rabbit to Scooby Doo, Where Are You?)

[J. A. Boschen]

I'd like to see a book on the advertising and independent cartoon studios of the 30's and 40's, which would give a detailed history and filmographies of the studios such as Jam Handy, Eshbaugh, McCrory, Audio Cinema, etc.

Also a book on Ub Iwerks covering all of his films, and not just his Comicolor and Flip the Frog Cartoons. Would be nice to learn more about his Columbia Cartoons and the Cartoon Films LTD. ads.

All of these books would have lots of photographs, artwork, and film stills.

[Ray Pointer]

Regarding a history about Jam Handy, Greg Hildebrandt called me a year ago with an interest in writing a book. A few months later, his twin brother Tim passed away and naturally his mind was on other things. I had alread been quoted in IDEA magazine four years ago in a article on this one-time industrial film production giant.

In June, 1967, I had my first introduction to the business at Jam Handy. Durign the period I was in and out of there during high school and college I picked up some information about the place and saw it during its waning years. At this point in time, there are probably less than 10 people who can tell you anything about the place. I happen to be one of them since I was there. When you do the math, that was 40 years ago. Time flies!

[Steve Stanch]

Being here in Detroit and working at the College for Creative Studies, I've been in contact with a few dozen folks over the last 7 years or so that worked at Jam Handy at some point in their career.... If I look from the parking structure at CCS, I can almost see where Handys was. My old Acme animation disc is actually from Jam Handy- who knows what was drawn on it over the years....

[Detroiter]

If I look from the parking structure at CCS, I can almost see where Handys was.

I had an uncle that worked there as an artist, before WWII, I believe. Where exactly was their studio?

[Ray Pointer]

The main address was 2821 East Grand Boulevard, three blocks east of The General Motors Building. Handy's was spread out in eight buildings on both sides of the street. At that time, there was a median that divided East Grand Boulevard lined with Elm Trees. the first building one block east of Woodward Avenue on the south side was a sort of converted church, two stories high. That was their sound stage for many years. The rest of the company was spread out among buildings on both sides of the street extending past Hastings Street and ending as Grand Boulevard turned at I-75. The Animation Department at that time was in the last two story building on the south side at the corner of Hastings and Grand Boulevard. There was a series of two similar two story structures like this along the two blocks on the south side. The story had it that they were originally built as buggy factories.

The Animation Department occupied the second floor in the rear 3/4 of the building. The front side facing the street held writers and accountant's offices. The entrance in the lobby had a white fence divider with a knee-high
gate. To the right was the stairway leading to a lobby area with a bubble-style skylight and 60s modern furniture. To the left was a conference/
screening room.

The waiting area had decorative brick. To the left facing that wall was the door to The Animation Department. There was a framed sign with caricatures of the people working there. One of them was Frank Wolchenzcik, a nice man, slightly resembling Ernest Borgnine who was very kind to me. The department manager was Bob Kennedy who took a great deal of interest in me at the young age of 14 going on 15.

It was during that time that I became exposed to the annecdotes of working for Fleischer and Disney that started my interest in the industry's history from a more personal perspective. This was also the time of the famous accidental and providental meeting of Max Fleischer when he wondered in while I was projecting my cartoons in the Camera Room. But this may be enough for now. :)

[Meyer]

I'd like to see Ward Kimball's diaries from over the years compiled into some sort of tome.

[Bugsmer]

How Lenny Bruce Influenced Animation.

This book would explain how primitive many cartoons were before this man was born in 1925, and how the industry matured as he matured (or immatured), reaching his peak in the late forties. When he fell in 1966, so did animation (Walt died the same year, and it was this year that the Flintstones breathed their last...coincidence?). Had this man not been born, would animation as we know it exist today?

[Ray Pointer]

How Lenny Bruce Influenced Animation.

This book would explain how primitive many cartoons were before this man was born in 1925, and how the industry matured as he matured (or immatured), reaching his peak in the late forties. When he fell in 1966, so did animation (Walt died the same year, and it was this year that the Flintstones breathed their last...coincidence?). Had this man not been born, would animation as we know it exist today?

If your reference is to THANK YOU MASKED MAN, I am puzzled as to how this would be considered such a major "advancement" in the art of animation. It was an adaptation of a recorded stand up routine. Other than that, I am unaware of what contributions Lenny Bruce made to the animation field. He never worked in it as far as I know. Whether or not his comedy influence had come along, chances are what we have now would have happen on its own anyway. I am not sure that Lenny Bruce had any major influence of today's product. You could make the same connection with George Carlton. Could these comedians be the route to SOUTH PARK? If so, then the issue is content, and not the "advancement" of the medium since they are not examples of advancment of technique.

Perhaps the important question here is what would animation have been if
Walt Disney had not been discovered. Whether you like Disney's work or not, there is no question that he contributed to advancing animation in a way that
inspired and benefited others. When you think about it, the very appeal of the Warners and MGM characters is the fact that they were a backlash to the Disney innocence and nostalgia that worked well in the depression, but was passe' by the 1940s. It should be remembered that Disney's continued push to polish animation principles benefited the other studios that prevailed in the 1940s and beyond.

And regarding the discovery of Walt Disney, this was the result of Margaret Winkler, whose role in Animation History has not been fully credited because without her the world may never have heard of Walt Disney, and the animation field may never have reached the heights he raised it to during his
"golden period."

[Bugsmer]

Ray, it's well known that Mr. Bruce had absolutely no influence on animation, which is why I'd love to see a book saying that he did.

[OurGangAlfalfa]

Hugh Beaumont should write a book on Orestes Calpini called "Hugh Beaumont on Orestes Calpini." Except Hugh Beaumont is dead.

[Ray Pointer]

Sorry, I guess this was supposed to be funny. I didn't get it.

[Geezil]

Join the club, Ray. Here's hoping this thread is put back on track quickly.

And toward that end, the quote below covers the sort of book I'd also vote for.

I'd love to see a book that focuses on the artists rather than the directors. Maybe an in depth A-Z of animators, layout artists and background painters, with little focus on Disney. Mainly MGM, WB, Famous, Lantz and Terrytoons.
:D

[JPox]

- A bio about Bob Clampett, Frank Tashlin, Arthur Davis, Rob Scribner, Robert McKimson, ... with plenty of artwork and cartoon listings.
- An Ultimate Guide about Walt Disney Television Animation.
- An Ultimate Guide about Warner Bros Television Animation.
- An Ultimate Guide about Popeye and his long career.
- An Ultimate Guide about Woody Woodpecker and Friends.
- An Ultimate Guide about TerryToons.
- An Ultimate Guide about HarveyToons.
- A collection of Looney Tunes & Merrie Melodies comics from the 40's and 50's.

[Bugsmer]

Forget it, Ray. It wasn't that funny. I wouldn't mind reading a book centering on Felix. A book about the silent era might be difficult to write, since so many bigwigs from that period are dead, but it would be fascinating to read. Leonard Maltin did a good job on the silents in his first chapter of Of Mice And Magic.

Hugh Beaumont should write a book on Orestes Calpini called "Hugh Beaumont on Orestes Calpini." Except Hugh Beaumont is dead.
Now the book will be worth more.

[Ray Pointer]

I wouldn't mind reading a book centering on Felix. A book about the silent era might be difficult to write, since so many bigwigs from that period are dead, but it would be fascinating to read. Leonard Maltin did a good job on the silents in his first chapter of Of Mice And Magic. Now the book will be worth more.

Actually, it's been done. The best book to date on silent animation is BEFORE MICKEY by Donald Crafton. It is well researched, original, and well written, not relying on too heavily on what has been written by others, yet references sources with footnotes for additional related reading. Also look for FELIX: THE TWISTED TALE OF THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS CAT by John Canemaker. This is another well written, intelligent account on the subject.

On another note, it's been my position that books set a nice foundation, but you have to see the films for them to be totally realized. That's why I started packaging the programs of silent animation that come up in discussions here from time to time. After all, this is a moving art form we appreciate, and the only way it can be completely understood is to see them the way they were meant to be seen-- in action.:felix:

[Bugsmer]

Actually, it's been done. The best book to date on silent animation is BEFORE MICKEY by Donald Crafton. It is well researched, original, and well written, not relying on too heavily on what has been written by others, yet references sources with footnotes for additional related reading. Also look for FELIX: THE TWISTED TALE OF THE WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS CAT by John Canemaker. This is another well written, intelligent account on the subject.

On another note, it's been my position that books set a nice foundation, but you have to see the films for them to be totally realized. That's why I started packaging the programs of silent animation that come up in discussions here from time to time. After all, this is a moving art form we appreciate, and the only way it can be completely understood is to see them the way they were meant to be seen-- in action.:felix:

That's the best way to see them, Ray. Few people would read these books if they couldn't see examples of the subject being written about. You might be increasing the sales of their books.

[IlludiumRalph]

Unless I have missed it, I would like to see a thorough Hanna Barbera list book like the Looney Tune/Merrie Melody and the Disney Studio Story books. One that has dated listings for all the obscure series.

[Jack G.]

How are Daniel Goldmark's Tunes for 'Toons andThe Cartoon Music Book?
What's the general focus in each of them?


Actually, it's been done. The best book to date on silent animation is BEFORE MICKEY by Donald Crafton.So that's why your DVD is called Before Walt?
I wondered why you didn't call it Before Mickey, because, obviously, Disney is featured on the disc.

[Ray Pointer]

How are Daniel Goldmark's Tunes for 'Toons andThe Cartoon Music Book?
What's the general focus in each of them?


So that's why your DVD is called Before Walt?
I wondered why you didn't call it Before Mickey, because, obviously, Disney is featured on the disc.

I came up with the title BEFORE WALT for several reasons. First, I did not want to intrude on Don Crafton's title for his book, which had a companion VHS tape produced 25 years ago. While it was suggested that he come out with a DVD of his VHS program, he remarked, "It's already been done," graciously referencing me. This is an area that I am respectful of inspite of the actions of others who do not give consideration to those who have done the work to established certain titles and create an interest in various aspects of animation history. Therefore, use of the same title would have caused confusion and unfair compeittion.

Second, my program was focused on the development of animation from its earliest concepts leading up to the emergence of Walt Disney. There was no reference to MICKEY MOUSE in the program, where Mr. Crafton's reference was symbolic with the main focus on the popularity and importance of FELIX THE CAT in the silent era.:felix:

[Fibber Fox]

A coffee table size book on the different styles (and how they developed) of the golden age animators, with lots of still frames of their animation to analyze, would be great.

This would be at the top of my list, along with biographical information about when and where they were working.

A book on voice artists would probably be at the top, but I understand at least one is out there. I've never been able to find it in book stores (I will not own a credit card so I don't order things on line).

FF

[Thad]

]A book on voice artists would probably be at the top, but I understand at least one is out there. I've never been able to find it in book stores (I will not own a credit card so I don't order things on line).

I believe Keith Scott has one in the works, and he's the supreme authority on classic cartoon voices.

TK

[Fibber Fox]

I believe Keith Scott has one in the works, and he's the supreme authority on classic cartoon voices.

Thanks, Thad. Unless Keith has documentation, it'll be a really tough thing to put together. He'll have to rely on guessing by matching inflections, phrasing and tone from recordings that aren't exactly high-fidelity after all these years.

As for other books, I'd probably buy an entire book of stories about Cal Howard. Too bad his cartoons weren't just as funny as he was.

Oh, and a copy of "Who's Gay in Cartoon Hollywood." :)

FF

[Thad]

Thanks, Thad. Unless Keith has documentation, it'll be a really tough thing to put together. He'll have to rely on guessing by matching inflections, phrasing and tone from recordings that aren't exactly high-fidelity after all these years.

Keith is one of the world's leading animation historians (Bill Scott was his mentor, though not a relative) so rest assured, anything from him will be well-researched.

TK

[J. J. Hunsecker]

As for other books, I'd probably buy an entire book of stories about Cal Howard. Too bad his cartoons weren't just as funny as he was.
FF
Do tell, do tell. I've never heard these stories involving Cal Howard. What did he do?

[Thad]

I'd also like to see a book that focuses on the Disney cartoons from the 1940s onwards. Most Disney histories go in detail over the 1930s and skim over the rest of the studio's output, but I always preferred the Kinney/Sibley cartoons over anything in the 30s.

TK

[kaseykockroach]

A history book about the forgotten,obscure cartoons and directors would be a must buy for me.

[Matt the Y]

I'd also like to see a book that focuses on the Disney cartoons from the 1940s onwards. Most Disney histories go in detail over the 1930s and skim over the rest of the studio's output, but I always preferred the Kinney/Sibley cartoons over anything in the 30s.

TK

I certainly agree with Thad here. In Leonard Maltin's own book, he basically has nothing to say about any of the post-1940 Disney shorts with the exception of "Der Fuehrer's Face", "Hockey Homicide", the Humphrey Bear shorts, and a few others.

I think a Disney book that discusses some of the studio's other "slighted" cartoons like "Chicken Little", "Pelican and the Snipe", "Education for Death", "Reason and Emotion", "Clown of the Jungle", "Spare the Rod", "No Hunting", and, of course, those brilliant Jack Kinney-directed Disney shorts primarily "Hold That Pose", the Goofy "Everyman" series, "How to Be a Detective", and the one-shots he did. Interestingly, there are a few Goofy shorts that Sibley did NOT animate on during this time ("Teachers are People" and "How to Sleep" are two shorts that do not give credit to Sibley). I wonder why that is; was Sibley working on features like Peter Pan when those two shorts were being made?

[Matt the Y]

Do tell, do tell. I've never heard these stories involving Cal Howard. What did he do?

Cal Howard... where to begin?

If you read Chuck Jones' first autobiography, he tells some amazing anecdotes about Howard. For one, he used to operate an in-house hamburger/hot dog stand with very inventive ways to keep profit and make change. He also had a picture of saviour Jesus Christ at his desk and personally wrote on it, "To Cal, Love Jesus", making it a personally autographed portrait of The Lord's son! :D :D :D

He was also once caught by studio personnel exchanging money with an outsider. To keep from getting in hot water, he explained (i.e. lied like a rug) that he was donating a small contribution to his son's bar mitzvah. But to quote Jones, "Cal was an unmarried Gentile"! :D :D :D

There also is another story (not told by Jones) in which after briefly serving employment at MGM studios, Cal had a local boy scout troop march by Fred Quimby's office and yell at the top of their lungs within his earshot, "QUIMBY IS A RED-FACED JERK!!!!". :D :D :D Ah, the great American dream.... ;)

[Fibber Fox]

He was also once caught by studio personnel exchanging money with an outsider. To keep from getting in hot water, he explained (i.e. lied like a rug) that he was donating a small contribution to his son's bar mitzvah. But to quote Jones, "Cal was an unmarried Gentile"!

It was Ray Katz, wasn't it? I'd have to dig out my books.

It just seems to me every story about Cal Howard I've read is funny. Mike Maltese is still my favourite writer, though.

FF

[Jack]

I'd really like to see a book that focusses on cartoon background art and design - an overview of it. It'd be nice if research could be done to clarify who did all the backgrounds for the cartoons of the 30's and early 40's, before they started crediting such people.

[mmtper]

[ QUOTE=Ray Pointer]
On another note, it's been my position that books set a nice foundation, but you have to see the films for them to be totally realized. That's why I started packaging the programs of silent animation that come up in discussions here from time to time. After all, this is a moving art form we appreciate, and the only way it can be completely understood is to see them the way they were meant to be seen-- in action.:felix:
[/QUOTE]

I'd love to see all these books, but the thing I'd really love to see is someone do for American animation what Ken Burns did for the Civil War, Jazz, and Baseball: a big 13-hour PBS documentary on the history of the form, full of examples and historic footage and interviews of animators and animation experts (I could easily imagine Ray, JJ, Sogturtle, J Lee, etc etc all holding forth and expressing themselves...but not in the same room!:rolleyes: ;) ) It would probably never happen with legal red tape, and would Disney want their legacy to share the spotlight, or recieve occasional negative criticism? I think not (sigh) but I can dream, can't I?

[J. J. Hunsecker]

I'd love to see all these books, but the thing I'd really love to see is someone do for American animation what Ken Burns did for the Civil War, Jazz, and Baseball: a big 13-hour PBS documentary on the history of the form, full of examples and historic footage and interviews of animators and animation experts (I could easily imagine Ray, JJ, Sogturtle, J Lee, etc etc all holding forth and expressing themselves...but not in the same room!:rolleyes: ;) ) It would probably never happen with legal red tape, and would Disney want their legacy to share the spotlight, or recieve occasional negative criticism? I think not (sigh) but I can dream, can't I?
I always thought that type of documentary would be a good idea, too. (And thanks for considering me to be a part of it. :tweety: )