A book plagiarizing a classic Warner Brothers cartoon?!?!

[Sogturtle]

"The King, the Mice and the Cheese" by Nancy and Eric Gurney
I don't remember ever hearing of this book before (even when I was wee bairn;)). It appears to have been first published back in 1965 (copyrighted Aug. 27, 1965).

Now read this encapsulation of it... (swiped from an online news-story:p) "In the book, a cheese-loving king's castle is infested with mice. So the king brings in cats to get rid of the mice. Then the castle's overrun with cats, so he brings in dogs to get rid of them, then lions to get rid of the dogs, elephants to get rid of the lions, and finally, mice to get rid of the elephants". :eek::eek::eek:

Okay, so change the castle to a motel/inn and the king to Porky, and the royal advisors to Daffy Duck and have only singles of the animals instead of multiples... Alright, now does THAT remind anybody just the least-little bit of the classic Bob McKimson toon "Dime To Retire" (written by Sid Marcus) and its Capitol records offshoot "Daffy Duck's Duck Inn" (writing credited to Warren Foster and Tedd Pierce)???:eek::rolleyes:

Next question... WHY:confused: would the authors have swiped the entire story from an already classic Warner's cartoon that had been made 12 (TWELVE) years before?? [The cartoon was released in 1955 but was "in notice" with the copyright office in '54 and written back in 1953 before the brief studio closure). Yes I know the odds of Warners coming after them were nil, but still, plagiarizing is plagiarizing...:eek::eek: (And yeah, maybe they had the same problem that George Harrison claimed of "unconscious" copying...:rolleyes: ).

[Madison Carter]

Is it possible that both are just reworkings of some old fable/moral story? The nucleus of the story certainly has that flavor.

[Sogturtle]

Is it possible that both are just reworkings of some old fable/moral story? The nucleus of the story certainly has that flavor.

Madison~

Yeah that crossed my mind briefly too, but the problem is that it just doesn't seem to be the case... Someone else during the last 42 years since this kid's book was published would've said "Oh!! That's just another reworking of the old such-and-such fable that our grandmother's used to tell us when they were making borsht." And that appears not to have happened.

[The Spectre]

It's one of those Beginner Books, isn't it? Funny, I remember that a bunch of them were written by a (Nancy and) Eric Gurney but I don't believe it's until now that I made the connection with the Disney animator/writer Eric Gurney...

How many non-Seuss writers did write for the Beginner Books anway? Theo LeSeig is another name for Dr Seuss, there's Stan and Jan Bernstein... P.D. Eastman... How many (besides Seuss himself) were also involved in Golden Age cartoons?

EDIT: Hmmm, a check on Wikipedia suggests it isn't actually a Beginner Book... it just looks a lot like one...

[Matt the Y]

How many non-Seuss writers did write for the Beginner Books anway? Theo LeSeig is another name for Dr Seuss, there's Stan and Jan Bernstein... P.D. Eastman... How many (besides Seuss himself) were also involved in Golden Age cartoons?


Actually, P.D. Eastman was involved with Golden Age cartoons! His initials stand for Philip Dey Eastman and he was involved (not unlike Seuss) with the Pvt. Snafu cartoons at Warners during WWII and later served as a storyman for UPA (under the name, Phil Eastman) writing such shorts as "Punchy DeLeon", "Fuddy Duddy Buddy", "Sloppy Jalopy", and "Pete Hothead".

[Sogturtle]

It's one of those Beginner Books, isn't it? Funny, I remember that a bunch of them were written by a (Nancy and) Eric Gurney but I don't believe it's until now that I made the connection with the Disney animator/writer Eric Gurney...

How many non-Seuss writers did write for the Beginner Books anway? Theo LeSeig is another name for Dr Seuss, there's Stan and Jan Bernstein... P.D. Eastman... How many (besides Seuss himself) were also involved in Golden Age cartoons?

EDIT: Hmmm, a check on Wikipedia suggests it isn't actually a Beginner Book... it just looks a lot like one...

Spectre~

As to who else amongst the Beginner Books authors (besides Ted Geisel) had worked in animation, the one name that leaps to mind is P.D. Eastman aka Phil Eastman. He had tenures at Walt's studio (got canned), Schlesinger's before being drafted, and then later UPA before hitting the gold with kid's books.;)

[Looks like Matt de Y;) covered much of my Eastman tale.]

[captchucky]

"The King, the Mice and the Cheese" by Nancy and Eric Gurney
I don't remember ever hearing of this book before (even when I was wee bairn;)). It appears to have been first published back in 1965 (copyrighted Aug. 27, 1965).

Now read this encapsulation of it... (swiped from an online news-story:p) "In the book, a cheese-loving king's castle is infested with mice. So the king brings in cats to get rid of the mice. Then the castle's overrun with cats, so he brings in dogs to get rid of them, then lions to get rid of the dogs, elephants to get rid of the lions, and finally, mice to get rid of the elephants". :eek::eek::eek:

Okay, so change the castle to a motel/inn and the king to Porky, and the royal advisors to Daffy Duck and have only singles of the animals instead of multiples... Alright, now does THAT remind anybody just the least-little bit of the classic Bob McKimson toon "Dime To Retire" (written by Sid Marcus) and its Capitol records offshoot "Daffy Duck's Duck Inn" (writing credited to Warren Foster and Tedd Pierce)???:eek::rolleyes:

Next question... WHY:confused: would the authors have swiped the entire story from an already classic Warner's cartoon that had been made 12 (TWELVE) years before?? [The cartoon was released in 1955 but was "in notice" with the copyright office in '54 and written back in 1953 before the brief studio closure). Yes I know the odds of Warners coming after them were nil, but still, plagiarizing is plagiarizing...:eek::eek: (And yeah, maybe they had the same problem that George Harrison claimed of "unconscious" copying...:rolleyes: ).


I don't think that cartoon is the original version of that story. It certainly has the feel of a very old-time comedy bit that pre-dates the 20th century.

[Sogturtle]

I don't think that cartoon is the original version of that story. It certainly has the feel of a very old-time comedy bit that pre-dates the 20th century.

Captchucky~

Like I said up above in discussion with Madison Carter, I considered the possibility of it being an OLD folktale but nobody but nobody seems to know of any such tale...

Keeping in mind that the guy who wrote "Dime To Retire" was Sid Marcus and with his being born around 1903 he definitely had exposure to parents straight out of the late 1800's and their attitudes and to early vaudeville. BUT thus far I don't know of any such old folktale or comedy-bit that has the wonderful cyclical tale that turns up in (and predates) "Dime To Retire"...

SOMEBODY HAD to write the thing orginally, and with Sid's track-record of unusual and wacky stories it seems to fit in with his writing style. Even though it may seem like some ancient folktale or comedic turn.

[captchucky]

Captchucky~

Like I said up above in discussion with Madison Carter, I considered the possibility of it being an OLD folktale but nobody but nobody seems to know of any such tale...

Keeping in mind that the guy who wrote "Dime To Retire" was Sid Marcus and with his being born around 1903 he definitely had exposure to parents straight out of the late 1800's and their attitudes and to early vaudeville. BUT thus far I don't know of any such old folktale or comedy-bit that has the wonderful cyclical tale that turns up in (and predates) "Dime To Retire"...

SOMEBODY HAD to write the thing orginally, and with Sid's track-record of unusual and wacky stories it seems to fit in with his writing style. Even though it may seem like some ancient folktale or comedic turn.

Tim, I'm sure there's a good chance you're right about this. Old, standard vaudeville routines are very obscure these days.

[Sogturtle]

Tim, I'm sure there's a good chance you're right about this. Old, standard vaudeville routines are very obscure these days.

Captchucky~

Until someone can produce some evidence of the "Dime To Retire" scenario existing in vaudeville then I THINK we're safe in assuming that Sid Marcus was indeed the original author of it...:)

(And I can't fathom ANYONE actually ever having put that on stage with lions and elephants;) or even just as a joke routine, too long and involved.)