Disney-Allice in Cartoonland DVD from VCI

[jazzman78]

Hi,

Does anybody out there know what the quality is like on the VCI "Alice In Cartoonland" DVD is like?

I just saw it listed on DVD Planet or is the discs from Ray Pointer better?

[Bricolo]

I don't have it but I think it is good and worth getting, so are Ray Pointer's. Jerry Beck wrote something about it here:

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/classic/alice-in-35mm

[Lynn]

I have this DVD. Well worth the cost. Excellent copies given their age. I have not seen Mr. Pointer's version which is being updated, though I do have several of Mr. Pointer's other offerings that are top shelf.

[Ray Pointer]

Back in December, I learned that VCI was releasing the 35mm sound reissues of the ALICE COMEDIES. I was excited and interested in this. But when the announcements were coming forward, I questioned the necessity of duplicating ALICE IN CARTOONLAND as the title, since we had been using
that title for the past seven years. And why was it necessary to use an image that too closely resembled the cover of my release? Adding to this was a pre-release review that used a description of my program to describe the VCI release on Amazon. It makes one wonder if the reviewer actually saw the DVD, or is qualified to review it.

In spite of my efforts to explain on Amazon that the contents described were from my program, whomever handles VCI's Amazon account has linked me to their release, and for a solid week, my product was thrown off Amazon and removed mysteriously from their catalog. One would think that a prerequisite to posting things on the Internet should be basic reading comprehension. So I wonder how many others are confused or being misled into thinking that they are buying this DVD and expecting it to be my product?

First of all, let us review the history of the title ALICE IN CARTOONLAND. This has become the collective reference to what was officially known as the ALICE COMEDIES of the 1920s. When Diane Disney Miller wrote the first biography on her father, THE WALT DISNEY STORY (1955) she refered to the films as ALICE IN CARTOONLAND, and the name has remained ever since. But the fact is that this was not a registered title or trademark, where the ALICE COMEDIES were. Anyone seeing examples with original main titles will clearly see the trademark logo of "Alice Comdies" accompanied with the words "Registered Trade Mark." But at no time did ALICE IN CARTOONLAND appear in the titles or in any official reference to the series. When we came out with out first program on the ALICE films, we adpoted this generic title into the copyright and also established it as a trademark, which has been in use for seven years. Since then people have come to associate my product with this title.

While the idea of the ALICE COMEDIES becoming available from 35mm sources is exciting news, the entire promotion of this DVD is misleading on several levels. The cover claims it is "The 35mm Collection." But if one reads the back cover text, it states clearly, "Most of the cartoons on this DVD have remarkable clarity because they were transferred directly from 35mm nitrate negatives." The key word here is "most." Not all of them are. And while the inclusion of three KRAZY KIDS CARTOONS are clearly from 35mm sources, they are not related to the subject of the ALICE COMEDIES. While I had never heard of these cartoons before, they seem more like poor imitations of early Terrytoons, with decent scores that were mixed at too low of a volume. So the inclusion of three unrelated cartoons from 35mm is supposed
to qualify this as ALICE IN CARTOONLAND: The 35mm Collection?

Three of the ALICE films included, ALICE SOLVES THE PUZZLE, ALICE RATTLED BY RATS, and ALICE'S EGG PLANT appear to have been from 16mm sources
as were the prints used in my original release of 2000. But wait. Some of
the cartoons are censored. The VCI release of ALICE'S EGG PLANT is missing the "Little Red Hensky" sequence, which is complete in the Disney release of 2005 and also in my release. In both cases, ALICE'S EGG PLANT appears to be from a "duped" 16mm source. I have the good fortune of having a pristine 35mm transfer that is complete. This, along with ALICE AND THE DOG CATCHER, also from a 35mm source, was previewed at the American Film Institute and also The Hollywood Heritage Museum in June last year to an enthusiastic audience.

ALICE CHOPS THE SUEY, while from a 35mm source, is missing 21 seconds near the end where Julius grabs a "bunch" of knives and throws them back at the Chinese Rats that are chasing him and Alice, who is conveniently hidden in a Laundry Sack. When he throws the knives, the rats are pinned to the ground. It may have been feared that children would think that the rats were stabbed. But this is not the case since the rats are clearly alive, kicking their legs in the air. Oddly the soundtrack continues unedited at this point and is out of sync with an awkward segue at the end. Fortunately, I have the complete version. Some of the other cartoons appear two frames too early
or too late in their overall synchronization.

ALICE SOLVES THE PUZZLE is significant in that it was the debut of the modern ALICE as a miniature "flapper" played by Margie Gaye. This is also from a 16mm source similar to mine, and has had the references to bootlegging and booze edited out. This cartoon, more than any of the others has more awkward edits due to the references to alcohol and drunkenness. This is odd considering that a drunkenness scene remains in ALICE RATTLED BY RATS. In this cartoon, Julius is chasing after a rat in the house with a shot gun, and shoots a ring around the floor, causing it to collapse under him. He falls through the floor, lands in a big vat of Moonshine, and comes out "silly with drink."

I have stated previously that while ALICE was a popular seller for us, I was not happy with the quality overall due to the materials available to us at the time. But in the last three years, we have come into better materials, and
more of the ALICE films from 35mm sources. This was included in our plans for a "Bonus Edition" for two years. The hold up has been the research we have been doing to restore many of the season one films, which have a lot of flaked-off emulsion and wear that we are now overcoming. To date, we are sold out on the old 2000 ALICE IN CARTOONLAND, but will be replacing it with a "Revised Edition" with new material that will give it a continuity with our other programs, BEFORE WALT and THE LEGENDARY LAUGH-O-GRAMS.

Anyone who has followed many of the threads here has seen the passion displayed over the integrity of classic animated films. On the surface the cartoons look good, but look again. Along with the over processing of the video signal is an issue that is important to all who care about cartoon animation--the notorious DVNR effect. There are many places in these cartoons where outlines are erased, the worst example being ALICE IN THE JUNGLE. There are little things like scratches and folds that we would normally remove that can be seen in this release as well. In addition, it appears that these were "one light" transfers since the films seem to lack timing for correct exposure and brightness levels. They could be brighter, and the shifts in exposures could have been better controlled given the fact that "original nitrate negatives" were available to work with. But time and care was not taken in these areas. Again, while my name has been erroneously connected to the VCI release, I wish I could have been involved to help make it better, but I was not afforded this priviledge.

Although the inclusion of J. B. Kaufman, coauthor of WALT IN WONDERLAND seems to lend credibility to the VCI release, the summary text in the "Bonus Features" section could have been written by anyone taking the time to read what has already been written and write their own summary. As sound reissues these films have a charm that is due largely to the visual content and not the quality of the tracks themselves. Kaufman states in his book that while the soundtracks are somewhat irritating, these sound reissues stand as the only surviving examples. He affirms this statement of the irritating soundtracks in his summary comments found in the "Bonus Features". The quality of these sound reissues was also a sensitive issue with Walt Disney, and for years he attempted to keep them out of circulation because of the exploitation of his name in connected with an inferior product. This came at a time when he was striving to make superior sound cartoons and raise the standards for the industry, while estabishing his name with quality productions.

When MUTT AND JEFF was reissued as sound/color remakes, they had decent musical scores in spite of the annoying kazoos used for dialog. The use of music in the ALICE sound reissues is a bit mediocre and works part of the time, but does not always compliment the films well. The musical themes seem based on circus music, but why must the opening on the main title be some sinister melodramatic piece better suited for a chase? These sound reissues were obviously quickly and cheaply produced with little thought to the use of music, sound effects, and most of all, voice. The actor coming up with the uninspired ad libs for Julius also attempts to give Alice a falsetto voice that sounds more like a "silly boy" than the cute little girl she is supposed to be. All of this makes the post-recorded tracks of Fleischer Studios works of art by comparison with their excellent use of music, sound effects, voices, and superior sound recording.

I want to make it clear that these appraisals are offered as an objective overview and are not meant to discredit the VCI product, nor discourage those who may wish to buy it. But the details offered are in the interest of clarifying some major issues since interested parties might want to be aware of what they will be buying.


COMING SOON!

[jazzman78]

Thanks Ray,

Knowing the high quality of work that you do and your reputation for high standards I would fell the you products would be superior in many ways. But when one sees something like the VCI product being offered one has to question it, especially with their clames on the cover and the use of your title. One thought that I had was that they were ripping off copies from your DVD.

Henry

[cpdavison]

Henry:

I just got my copy of the VCI "Alice" compilation yesterday.

Initially, I was very excited to see the clarity of titles like ALICE'S BALLOON RACE, having only experienced washed-out dupes of it in the past.

But then, I noticed something...

As much as it pains me to say it, these transfers are riddled with the most incautious use of DVNR I have ever seen.

For instance, in once scene Julius is on the back of a running pig. The pig's legs all but disappear while he is running. Lines on fast-moving objects break up and fade out all over the place.

If one can ignore that aspect, and that may be asking A LOT, it is a fun collection.

The curious addition of the "KRAZY KIDS KARTOONS" is most welcomed, as these have had even less exposure than the ALICE cartoons. I'd post some frame captures, but I can't just now.

Has anyone else watched this disc yet?


Craig D.

[Ray Pointer]

Henry:

I just got my copy of the VCI "Alice" compilation yesterday.
Initially, I was very excited to see the clarity of titles like ALICE'S BALLOON RACE, having only experienced washed-out dupes of it in the past.
But then, I noticed something...As much as it pains me to say it, these transfers are riddled with the most incautious use of DVNR I have ever seen.
For instance, in once scene Julius is on the back of a running pig. The pig's legs all but disappear while he is running. Lines on fast-moving objects break up and fade out all over the place.

Craig D.

Well, as the saying goes, "I told ya so!"