Lamest concept for a cartoon?

[Marty26]

As we all know, there have been plenty of concepts/ideas for cartoons that in hindsight could be deemed as downright moronic (such as Bugs taking the Roadrunner's place in an otherwise standard Wile E. Coyote/Roadrunner cartoon - I'm talking about Hare Breadth Hurry, of course). What's your pick for "Lamest Concept Ever In A Cartoon"?

The one I just described gets my vote.

[captchucky]

I love "Hare Bredth Hurry." Jones didn't direct too many bad cartoons. This was at his typical high level - in other words about as good as cartoons get.

[AardvarkDog]

I love "Hare Bredth Hurry." Jones didn't direct too many bad cartoons. This was at his typical high level - in other words about as good as cartoons get.

Ditto on that.

And as for Lamest Concept, I wasn't exactly excited on the Speedy/Daffy series. I mean, I wasn't bothered about Sylvester chasing Speedy (though some do question about an American Cat in a Mexican culture) but the thought of pairing a duck with a mouse was probably good for a one-shot 'toon, but as a series it actually did stink.


IMHO, if it was a Mean-spirited Mexican Cat then maybe Speedy's last run of cartoons wouldn't have been so bad.

[Greg Method]

How about the one where the guys are redesigned as quasi-cybernetic superheroes from the future?

[Sean Gaffney]

What, four posts in and no mention of Good Night Elmer? :befuddled

[Marty26]

I love "Hare Bredth Hurry." Jones didn't direct too many bad cartoons. This was at his typical high level - in other words about as good as cartoons get.

At the expense of stirring up a possible debate, I have to disagree. Bugs's smugness was almost as irritating as it was in The Iceman Ducketh, there were only about two or three jokes (aren't Roadrunner cartoons supposed to have about 11 or 12?), and the cartoon violated not only Jones's rule about how Bugs is supposed to be the hunted before he can become the hunter, but it also violated the rule that the Roadrunner himself isn't supposed to physically harm Wile E. (rather, Wile E.'s supposed to be physically harmed by the backfiring of his own traps and tricks due to his incompetence).

[nickramer]

At the expense of stirring up a possible debate, I have to disagree. Bugs's smugness was almost as irritating as it was in The Iceman Ducketh, there were only about two or three jokes (aren't Roadrunner cartoons supposed to have about 11 or 12?), and the cartoon violated not only Jones's rule about how Bugs is supposed to be the hunted before he can become the hunter, but it also violated the rule that the Roadrunner himself isn't supposed to physically harm Wile E. (rather, Wile E.'s supposed to be physically harmed by the backfiring of his own traps and tricks due to his incompetence).
Actually, Jones came up with those rules in 1970's.

[J Lee]

But it does violate the rule Michael Maltese said the staff learned as a result of Clampett's "The Wacky Wabbit" in 1942. Maltese said the gags were funny enough, but the picture just died in the theaters, because Bugs has to be picked on or threatened to give him sympathy, he can't just go out and heckle someone for no reason.

Bugs may have a slight reason for going after the Coyote, but it it's contrived and not very good, and the jokes aren't nearly as good as Clampett's earlier effort (let alone Chuck's door gag being used to far better effect in "Hold the Lion, Please" and "Bunny Hugged'). And not allowing the Coyote a voice robs him of the verbal egotism in the previous four match-ups with Bugs that made his eventual downfalls so enjoyable. In the RR and sheepdog series, the cartoons were done so that the audience's sympathies are supposed to be with the Coyote; in the matchp-up before this with Bugs and Wile E., your sympathies are with the rabbit. In this cartoon, that's supposed to be the case, but beating up on this coyote comes off as borderline sadistic on Bugs' part, since Wile E is perfectly capable of doing himself in with no outside help.


As for classic cartoons with lame plots, McKimson's "Mother Was a Rooster" is a pretty silly/annoying concept, and the next-to-last Tom & Jerry short by Hanna-Barbera, "Robin Hoodwinked", had a concept that went a long way towards explaining why Bill and Joe let Homer Brightman write H-B's last Tom & Jerry short.

[Matt the Y]

"See Ya Later, Gladiator" gets my vote for lamest plot. The Daffy & Speedy series, for the most part, stank on the rocks to begin with but what was the point in time-transporting them back to ancient Rome? Did the series, the characters, or the cartoon itself benefit from the idea? NO!!!!!!!!!!! It just showed how pathetically dry on ideas the staff was for the characters and it completely justifies the fact that SYLG is the last-ever Daffy & Speedy cartoon (discounting 1980's made-for-TV "Chocolate Chase", another short that should just never have been made).

Runners-up might include the 1969 Lantz short, "Prehistoric Super Salesman" (As you may have guessed, I'm not big on cartoons about time travel and sending Woody back to prehistoric times just makes for one lame cartoon) and the three 1940's Woody cartoons that Dick Lundy directed that place Woody into the "Donald Duck" loser role (these would be "The Coo-Coo Bird", "Solid Ivory", and "The Mad Hatter). These cartoons just aren't right; seeing heckler Woody being placed in the victim role is extremely uncomfortable. Lundy did his best work when continuing the heckler Woody role in shorts like "Smoked Hams" (my favorite of his), "Well Oiled", and "Wacky Bye Baby".

[Thad]

"The Shell-Shocked Egg"
"A Waggily Tale"
"Hare Breadth Hurry"
"Mexican Cat Dance"

[Douglas E.]

Some of the most Lame plots IMHO are:

See ya Later Gladiator (WB 1969)
Rodent to Stardom (WB 1969)
Purr-Chance to Dream (MGM 1967)
From Bed to Worse (Depatie-Freleng 1971)
Carte Blanched (Depatie-Freleng 1969)
La Feet's Defeat (Depatie-Freleng 1968)
And of course, Baby Looney Tunes, and Loonatics!

-Doug

[Matt the Y]

Some of the most Lame plots IMHO are:

See ya Later Gladiator (WB 1969)
Rodent to Stardom (WB 1969)
Purr-Chance to Dream (MGM 1967)
From Bed to Worse (Depatie-Freleng 1971)
Carte Blanched (Depatie-Freleng 1969)
La Feet's Defeat (Depatie-Freleng 1968)
And of course, Baby Looney Tunes, and Loonatics!

-Doug

I'm glad someone mentioned "From Bed to Worse". I thought of mentioning it but didn't since technically it isn't an original plot (originally used in "Greedy for Tweety") and the plot itself isn't so bad; it just does NOT belong in an Ant & Aardvark short. As I mentioned before, the cartoon itself is almost a scene-for-scene remake of the original and the dog in this cartoon serves no purpose other than to make it as close to the original short as possible.

[Mr. Semaj]

Most stories where Donald is up against sadistic vermin, and others where the main character get too much abuse from different parties.

Three for Breakfast (Disney, 1948)
The Rebel Without Claws (WB, 1961)
Love That Pup (MGM, 1949)
Suppressed Duck (WB, 1965)
Ancient Fistory (Famous, 1953)
Crazy Over Daisy (Disney, 1950)
Down and Outing (MGM, 1961)
Rodent to Stardom (WB, 1967)
The Simple Things (Disney, 1953)

[Leviathan]

I hope I can avoid accusations of being high when I say the Popeye Cartoons "It's the Natural Thing to Do"" and "Popeye meets William Tell" are two of the lamest concepts for cartoons ever.

[Matt the Y]

I hope I can avoid accusations of being high when I say the Popeye Cartoons "It's the NAtral Thing to Do"" and "Popeye meets William Tell" are two of the lamest concepts for cartoons ever.

Well, I hope I'm at least able to "agree to disagree" with you.

Those are actually two of my favorite Popeye shorts. The former, I actually think, has a brilliant plot; the idea of Popeye and Bluto actually having to be polite and friendly toward one another (or, at least, until the new attitude wears off) is too good an opportunity to pass up. I will admit the latter cartoon does have a very unlikely plot but the cartoon itself is hilarious with very funny gags and ideas. Interestingly, the cartoon has a follow-up, "Popeye Meets Rip Van Winkle"; is that one any good?

[J. J. Hunsecker]

I hope I can avoid accusations of being high when I say the Popeye Cartoons "It's the Natural Thing to Do"" and "Popeye meets William Tell" are two of the lamest concepts for cartoons ever.
ARE YOU HIGH!?!? (Just kidding.)

[Thad]

"Leviathan", what color is the sky in your world? :sailor:

[Douglas E.]

A few more I thought of:

Fresh Airedale
The Bird that Came C.O.D.
The Iceman Ducketh
Corn Plastered
Sleepy Time Possum (Not bad, just lame.)
Mad as a Mars Hare

-Doug

[Marty26]

I'm actually surprised nobody's mentioned Skyscraper Caper yet. Also, Speedy Ghost To Town has to go down in history as having one of the lamest endings ever in a cartoon.

[Bugsmer]

What, four posts in and no mention of Good Night Elmer? :befuddled

The concept isn't at fault, since it has been used successfully in many better cartoons, but its execution is downright bad. Jones tried, and he reused the idea much better in "What's Brewin' Bruin?". I agree with Thad's "A Waggily Tale", a rather strange cartoon with a very unlikable kid (who looked much better as a dog). The cartoon isn't terrible, but is at least a few thousand degrees below masterpiece. I'll throw in "A Kiddie's Kitty" for good measure--a cartoon that seems to encourage animal abuse. In a plot reminiscent of an episode of Full House, a cutesy kid gets away with murder doing anything and everything that her evil little mind can think of, and Sylvester suffers as a result, the kid receiving no punishment. The premise is at its shallowest: kid sees cat; kid hurts cat; the end. I've been trying to come up with examples from Tom and Jerry, but on refleciton, even the worst Gene Deitch ones had interesting starting concepts. It's rare to find a cartoon that's all bad in the story department. Certainly, the gags can be lame, the timing may be way off, the animation may not live up to the standards set forth by Disney, but even the puniest little idea could be made into a wonderful film with the right people working on it.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

I think the lamest concept was teaming Daffy with Speedy. It just doesn't make sense!

[Leviathan]

"Leviathan", what color is the sky in your world? :sailor:

Kinda grey, Thad. Kinda grey.

No, really, I saw both cartoons during a Popeye Marathon on Boomerang, and I thought Both had incredibly lame concepts (Particularly William Tell, which sticks Popeye in a universe where his co-star is highly obnoxious and all the non-Popeye characters look like they came out of Gulliver's Travels thanks to Shamus Culhane's directing-- that's not a good thing, BTW). They're not bad, and they have some humorous moments, I just think their concepts are lame. That's all.

And here's another vote for Daffy/Speedy

[Jack]

A few more I thought of:

Fresh Airedale

-Doug
I'm rather surprised someone mentioned this one - I consider it one of Jones' masterpieces since it's wonderfully dark and unfair. Why do you consider it lame if you don't mind me asking?

[The Spectre]

all the non-Popeye characters look like they came out of Gulliver's Travels thanks to Shamus Culhane's directing

What does Shamus Culhane's directing have to do with Gulliver's Travels? He was just a lowly animator on that feature, wasn't he? Or was he an uncredited character layout artist?

One strange thing about Culhane directing though - I seem to remember reading a quote from him where he said that there was no point in animating something which *could* be done in live action. But besides the fact that it stars a recurring animated character, "Popeye Meets William Tell" could easily have been done in live action... maybe that means Culhane was dissatisfied with it?

[Marty26]

The concept isn't at fault, since it has been used successfully in many better cartoons, but its execution is downright bad. Jones tried, and he reused the idea much better in "What's Brewin' Bruin?". I agree with Thad's "A Waggily Tale", a rather strange cartoon with a very unlikable kid (who looked much better as a dog). The cartoon isn't terrible, but is at least a few thousand degrees below masterpiece. I'll throw in "A Kiddie's Kitty" for good measure--a cartoon that seems to encourage animal abuse. In a plot reminiscent of an episode of Full House, a cutesy kid gets away with murder doing anything and everything that her evil little mind can think of, and Sylvester suffers as a result, the kid receiving no punishment. The premise is at its shallowest: kid sees cat; kid hurts cat; the end. I've been trying to come up with examples from Tom and Jerry, but on refleciton, even the worst Gene Deitch ones had interesting starting concepts. It's rare to find a cartoon that's all bad in the story department. Certainly, the gags can be lame, the timing may be way off, the animation may not live up to the standards set forth by Disney, but even the puniest little idea could be made into a wonderful film with the right people working on it.

The kid was supposed to be really naive. Doing all these crazy things to Sylvester and not even realizing that she's physically hurting him. Of course, one must wonder what kind of mother would let her child play with firecrackers.

[Matt the Y]

I think the lamest concept was teaming Daffy with Speedy. It just doesn't make sense!

Well, you'll get no argument from me there.

I think it goes without saying that the Daffy/Speedy cartoons are the most repugnant and abominable cartoons in the history of Warner Bros. I can't believe there was a time when I actually wanted to see and collect them (perhaps only for the sake of completing my collection). Now that I have seen most of them, they are totally unfunny, very poorly written, the characters do not match up AT ALL, and the cartoons leave one dissatisfied and unimpressed. The only Daffy/Speedy short I think actually works is the first one, "It's Nice to Have a Mouse Around the House". Other shorts like "Well Worn Daffy", "Chili Corn Corny", "Mucho Locos", "A-Haunting We Will Go", "Speedy Ghost to Town", "Go Away Stowaway", and, worst of all, "See Ya Later Gladiator".... UGGGGGHHHHH!!!!

The question remains... how was Friz Freleng able to look at himself the same way again knowing his studio had produced some of the all-time worst WB cartoons ever made known as the Daffy/Speedy series?

[Marty26]

Well, you'll get no argument from me there.

I think it goes without saying that the Daffy/Speedy cartoons are the most repugnant and abominable cartoons in the history of Warner Bros. I can't believe there was a time when I actually wanted to see and collect them (perhaps only for the sake of completing my collection). Now that I have seen most of them, they are totally unfunny, very poorly written, the characters do not match up AT ALL, and the cartoons leave one dissatisfied and unimpressed. The only Daffy/Speedy short I think actually works is the first one, "It's Nice to Have a Mouse Around the House". Other shorts like "Well Worn Daffy", "Chili Corn Corny", "Mucho Locos", "A-Haunting We Will Go", "Speedy Ghost to Town", "Go Away Stowaway", and, worst of all, "See Ya Later Gladiator".... UGGGGGHHHHH!!!!

The question remains... how was Friz Freleng able to look at himself the same way again knowing his studio had produced some of the all-time worst WB cartoons ever made known as the Daffy/Speedy series?

Well, Robert McKimson also has to take some of the blame. He did, after all, direct most of them up until Format Films took over temporarily.

I think most of you already know what I think of the Daffy/Speedy series. I enjoy it quite a bit, with the exception of some of the Alex Lovy directed shorts like Rodent To Stardom and See Ya Later Gladiator (which are probably the worst WB cartoons ever produced - not even ridicule could make them funny). And I really don't find the Daffy/Speedy cartoons to be much worse than the Sylvester/Speedy cartoons. With the exception of those aforementioned Alex Lovy shorts, none of them were as bad as Mexican Cat Dance IMO.

[Douglas E.]

I'm rather surprised someone mentioned this one - I consider it one of Jones' masterpieces since it's wonderfully dark and unfair. Why do you consider it lame if you don't mind me asking?
For me it's just 7 minutes of the dog being a jerk and everyone loving him. And the cat just wanted to make his owner happy but he didn't get anything in the end. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy Chuck's dark cartoons (Feline Frame Up is a masterpiece) but this one for me dosen't work.

-Doug

[Marty26]

For me it's just 7 minutes of the dog being a jerk and everyone loving him. And the cat just wanted to make his owner happy but he didn't get anything in the end. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy Chuck's dark cartoons (Feline Frame Up is a masterpiece) but this one for me dosen't work.

-Doug

That reminds me: Has anybody else here ever noticed how cats are probably the most antagonized animals in classic cartoons? It seems that in a lot of animalic classic cartoons, cats are often potrayed as the villains and losers (more so than any other animal). Is it because of how preditorial they are, the old (mis)conception that cats have a certain evil to them, or what?

Note: This is coming from a serious cat lover.

[Marty26]

For me it's just 7 minutes of the dog being a jerk and everyone loving him. And the cat just wanted to make his owner happy but he didn't get anything in the end. I'm not saying that I don't enjoy Chuck's dark cartoons (Feline Frame Up is a masterpiece) but this one for me dosen't work.

-Doug

I should've mentioned Mexican Cat Dance, for a similar reason. A lot of sadistic punishment is inflicted on Sylvester in that cartoon (especially with the way the mice are constantly jeering him), with Speedy being pretty much unscathed through the whole short. I wish it ended with Sylvester giving Speedy and pretty much all the mice in that cartoon a serious beating or something.

[lonesome-lenny]

That reminds me: Has anybody else here ever noticed how cats are probably the most antagonized animals in classic cartoons? It seems that in a lot of animalic classic cartoons, cats are often potrayed as the villains and losers (more so than any other animal). Is it because of how preditorial they are, the old (mis)conception that cats have a certain evil to them, or what?

Note: This is coming from a serious cat lover.

Amen! I've never understood why cats come off so badly in classic cartoons. Many times, when I'm watching cartoons, I actually apologize to my feline pal, Eubie, about the poor portrayal of his species in animation.

The Mickey Mouse short THE KARNIVAL KID (one of my favorite cartoons) is about the only classic 'toon I can think of with reasonably positive-role felines.

I think that's one reason why I've never really liked TOM & JERRY. Mice are actually many times more destructive--not to mention the various diseases they carry--than a domestic house cat could ever be.

Cats do have the instinct to hunt. With centuries of domesticated ease, a lot of cats don't really know what to do with their prey. Eubie would often corner a bird and bat it around, but he had no desire to kill or eat it. Those instincts run strong and deep, though.

This would make a funny plot for a cartoon short, come to think of it...

I would like to see some pro-cat cartoons--something I could show Eubie without fear of offending his delicate sensibilities!

[Paperoga]

I think we're reading a little too much into this. But cartoons with good cats...

"Bad Luck Blackie"
"Fresh Airedale"
"Chow Hound"
"The Alley Cat"
"Up N' Atom"
"The Hep Cat"
"Tree for Two"
"Dr. Jerkyll's Hyde"
"The Helpful Geni"

OR HOW ABOUT :felix:

[Mr. Semaj]

I should've mentioned Mexican Cat Dance, for a similar reason. A lot of sadistic punishment is inflicted on Sylvester in that cartoon (especially with the way the mice are constantly jeering him), with Speedy being pretty much unscathed through the whole short. I wish it ended with Sylvester giving Speedy and pretty much all the mice in that cartoon a serious beating or something.

Same way I feel about a handful of Tom and Jerrys where Tom gets ganged up by mice, birds, dogs, AND humans, especially when the dogs and humans are oblivious to Jerry's presence or Tom's persistence.

[Marty26]

I think we're reading a little too much into this. But cartoons with good cats...

"Bad Luck Blackie"
"Fresh Airedale"
"Chow Hound"
"The Alley Cat"
"Up N' Atom"
"The Hep Cat"
"Tree for Two"
"Dr. Jerkyll's Hyde"
"The Helpful Geni"

OR HOW ABOUT :felix:

Actually, I think another cartoon worth noting is Mice Follies. Even though the cat was the antagonist, it was actually he who won at the end of the short, chasing Ralph, Morton, Alice and Trixie out of the New York apartment complex. Plus, he was actually portreyed as being considerably more sneaky and astute than either of the four mice - which seems kind of rare for a classic cartoon.

I actually forgot about Chow Hound. Boy was it great to see the cat get the last laugh at the end.

[Alf]

More cartoons with cats as good guys:

-The short-lived early 60´s Paramount/Famous series starring the unimaginatively named The Cat.
-An obscure Terrytoon short, also from the early 60´s: "Tin Pan Alley Cat". I have vague memories from watching it on T.V. a looooooooong time ago, but I think it was about a succesful song writer whose cat is his source of inspiration for creating his songs; when he loses the cat, he looks for him all through the city until he finally finds him again. I´d die for watching this again, so I wish someone posted it on YouTube but, alas, even Terrytoons are hard to find there.

And moving from the field of theatrical shorts to T.V. shows, does anyone recall the Disneyland T.V. episode from the 50´s THE GREAT CAT FAMILY? I certainly wish Disney enclosed it on one of their future Disney Treasures (if they don´t finally cancel them).

[Sogturtle]

What does Shamus Culhane's directing have to do with Gulliver's Travels? He was just a lowly animator on that feature, wasn't he? Or was he an uncredited character layout artist?

One strange thing about Culhane directing though - I seem to remember reading a quote from him where he said that there was no point in animating something which *could* be done in live action. But besides the fact that it stars a recurring animated character, "Popeye Meets William Tell" could easily have been done in live action... maybe that means Culhane was dissatisfied with it?

Spectre~

Yes you're right that Shamus Culhane was just a "lowly" animator on "Gulliver's Travels". And designating him as "lowly" in this instance is accurate since he arrived back at the Fleischer studio too late to be assigned any directing or even important animation, and so he was given the thing all animators hate, CROWD scene(s)!!

And I personally tend to agree with Shamus' assessment that IF spmething can be done in live action then there's no point in animating it.

[Javeman]

Any cartoon that puts Popeye against a little animal. You just KNOW the cartoon is going to suck. (ONLY EXCEPTION: "The Hungry Goat")

I also want to mention "Rabbit Rampage". Sorry, but taking the same premise from "Duck Amuck" and replacing Daffy with Bugs not only doesn't fit, it quite lazy as well.

[David Gerstein]

I'd go as far as to say most cartoons pitting the hero against a little animal tend to be weak; whether it be some of Donald vs Chip 'n' Dale, most of Daffy vs Speedy, or just about all of Popeye or Pluto vs anyone.
All of these cartoons seem to share a few traits in common: a lead character who isn't usually the bad guy (Daffy, Donald, Popeye) becomes a de facto villain, while the filmmakers seem to expect us to root for the little guy simply because he's small and cute. Then the little guy behaves like a jerk and fails to win our sympathy.
The result is a cartoon where there's no character you really feel for. This off-putting effect can be overcome by enough really good gags (example: some Chip 'n' Dale shorts), but most of the time no studio really succeeded.

[Marty26]

I'd go as far as to say most cartoons pitting the hero against a little animal tend to be weak; whether it be some of Donald vs Chip 'n' Dale, most of Daffy vs Speedy, or just about all of Popeye or Pluto vs anyone.
All of these cartoons seem to share a few traits in common: a lead character who isn't usually the bad guy (Daffy, Donald, Popeye) becomes a de facto villain, while the filmmakers seem to expect us to root for the little guy simply because he's small and cute. Then the little guy behaves like a jerk and fails to win our sympathy.
The result is a cartoon where there's no character you really feel for. This off-putting effect can be overcome by enough really good gags (example: some Chip 'n' Dale shorts), but most of the time no studio really succeeded.

Once again, I refer to Mexican Cat Dance. As well as several of the other Speedy/Sylvester shorts (I actually found Speedy to be less obnoxious and arrogant in the Daffy/Speedy series than in the Sylvester/Speedy series).

[Cartman]

Two other cartoons I'd like to name in which the cats are portrayed as good guys are both Censored 11 cartoons

TIN PAN ALLEY CATS - The Fats Waller cat who lands "outta dis world" and then ends up joining Uncle Tom Cat's Mission

ANGEL PUSS - The black cat who is the victim of a black sambo boy who is paid by a woman to drown him.

[Javeman]

Two other cartoons I'd like to name in which the cats are portrayed as good guys are both Censored 11 cartoons

TIN PAN ALLEY CATS - The Fats Waller cat who lands "outta dis world" and then ends up joining Uncle Tom Cat's Mission

ANGEL PUSS - The black cat who is the victim of a black sambo boy who is paid by a woman to drown him.I most definitely WOULDN'T consider the cat from "Angel Puss" a good guy.

[Paperoga]

"Popeye Meets William Tell" is not a lame concept - it's unique amongst the Fleischer cartoons and different from the usual visual style, with a stronger sense of drawing and construction. I like the cartoons Shamus directed at Fleischers'.

As for lamest concept for a cartoon, where to begin? We've had about 40 years of them, so just take your pick.

Scooby Doo
He-Man
Star Trek
Tiny Toons
Animaniacs
Johnny Bravo
Pelswick
Pokemon (or anything to come from the wasteland of Japanese anime)
Foster's Home for Imaginary Friends
Billy and Mandy
American Dad

[nickramer]

As for lamest concept for a cartoon, where to begin? We've had about 40 years of them, so just take your pick.


Tiny Toons


It people like this that's make Warner Bros. think that there's not a market for this show to be on DVD.:rolleyes:

As for the lamest concept for a cartoon, i would say that it would be "Daffy Duck and Porky Pig Meet the Groovy Goolies". 'Nuff said!

[speedy fast]

It people like this that's make Warner Bros. think that there's not a market for this show to be on DVD.:rolleyes:

Of course, those kinds of people probably don't care if it's on DVD.

[dandu]

He-Man
Tiny Toons
Animaniacs
Johnny Bravo
American Dad[/QUOTE]

I thought those cartoons were brilliant, and rather amusing. Especially American Dad, I find that creative and hillarious.

Family Guy on the other hand...is a little uninspired, but episodes are creative...but its violence is too realistic to be funny, i can't stand seeing blood and gore in a cartoon, unless its a certain terrytoons short i am dying to see someday...

[Paperoga]

He-Man

I thought those cartoons were brilliant, and rather amusing.

Okay, start explaining the brilliance of He-Man other than the fact it got past the FCC despite being a half-hour toy commercial.

[beau99]

Okay, start explaining the brilliance of He-Man other than the fact it got past the FCC despite being a half-hour toy commercial.
I'd like to know the same thing regarding "Magilla Gorilla".

Magilla had a cute concept, but H-B flat out admitted they were trying to sell plush dolls with it. Not cool.

[cngsoft]

The Mickey Mouse cartoons featuring the Orphans (the legions of bratty mice) fit Mr.Semaj's category of "stories where the main character gets too much abuse" and can be very annoying.

Also, the plot of "Falling Hare" is strange (Bugs Bunny as the fall guy can be funny, but that's not Bugs Bunny) and its ending is definitely lame: the plane should have crashed but Warren Foster chickened out :(

And last but not least, nearly every cartoon show made during the Silver and Bronze Ages was based on very lame ideas: the Honeymooners as cartoon cavemen, the Honeymooners again but as cartoon spacemen, the Beatles and the Gilligan's Island crew as cartoon people... However, they don't belong to the Golden Age so they don't belong to this forum either.

[Bugsy-Kun]

Even if it's very amusing, I tough the original Spider-Man series deserved to being one of lame concepts ever made with this cheater stories and reused footage scenes (Some of this was make for low-budget). I think too for the Tom & Jerry cartoon "Nit-Witty Kitty", not funny at all and also a lame concept for Tom. :tomcat:

[millsie]

He-Man
Tiny Toons
Animaniacs
Johnny Bravo
American Dad

I thought those cartoons were brilliant, and rather amusing. Especially American Dad, I find that creative and hillarious.

Family Guy on the other hand...is a little uninspired, but episodes are creative...but its violence is too realistic to be funny, i can't stand seeing blood and gore in a cartoon, unless its a certain terrytoons short i am dying to see someday...

American Dad is horrible. IMO it's just unwatchable. A really bad imitation of Family Guy. Family Guy on the other hand is OK. I can watch an episode a couple of times and maybe chuckle once or twice, but if a watch an episode of FG more than twice I tend to find it boring.

I didn't mind Tiny Toons or Animaniacs, but I haven't seen either show since they were first run on TV. Even as a kid I knew that He Man and She Ra were just toy commercials.

Having said that, the worst cartoons for me are shows based on the childhood of classic cartoon characters. These include shows like 'Flintstone Kids', 'Tom & Jerry Kids' and 'Baby Looney Tunes'.

As for golden age cartoons, I never liked the ones with Hipperty Hopper. I suppose part of this was because I really didn't like Sylvester Jr. Not just that but kangaroos look nothing like giant mice. I don't think this was worthy of a whole series of cartoons. Maybe a one shot, but not a whole series.

I also agree with those who disliked the Daffy/Speedy Gonzales cartoons. Just a couple of days ago I was watching the Looney Tunes Show on Boomerang here in Australia and was reminded of just how horrible these shorts really are. The one they showed was Daffy Rents, with Daffy, his mouse catching robot Herman and Speedy. It was just a most horrible seven minutes and yet this is not the worst Daffy/Speedy short ever made.

[Daffysleftfoot]

The Honeymooners again but as cartoon spacemen.

I assume you're talking about the Jetsons here. They're actually based on the Blondie comic strip, so it's really Blondie & Dagwood in space.

One cartoon's concept I never liked was The Dixie Fryer (by Robert McKimson c. 1960). Some of McKimson's toons around this time has concepts that could have been enjoyable but were dampened by uninspired writing. Here, the concept is just as bad as everything else in the cartoon. This was Pappy and Elvis' follow-up to Backwoods Bunny (by Robert McKimson c. 1959). However, here they do battle with Foghorn Leghorn which really doesn't work. When they tangled with Bugs Bunny, at least it was well established who the fallguys were. Elvis would try to kill Bugs but Bugs would manipulate him so that he'd either injure himself or his Pappy. It's a nice simple premise that works. However, Foghorn Leghorn has a history of manipulating characters which either backfire on him or inspire revenge from that other character and thus finish him off with one elaborate scheme. Therefore, McKimson seemed confused with the handling of the Dixie Fryer. It's like he didn't know who should be getting the short end of the stick the entire time. Sometimes it was Foggy, sometimes it was Elvis. And, worse yet, we the audience are confused about which character we should root for. Do we hope that Foggy loses, or Elvis, or should they all get a sound thrashing? Or should they be friends at the end?

Mark Twain once said "a good novelist is not someone who comes up with a good plot or a good story but rather it's someone who puts two or more characters together into a situation and hopes for interesting results." Well, these three characters in this situation produced confusing results. So, yeah, as you all can tell, The Dixie Fryer gets my vote as one of the lamest concepts for a cartoon.

[Debbie]

I think one of the worst concepts for a cartoon would be 1975's Tom and Jerry Show, where Tom and Jerry are friends. They are cute cartoons, I remember them fondly from when I was younger, but the concept doesn't really work. The few where they are competitors in sporting events work well, but still don't really suit the characters.

[cngsoft]

I assume you're talking about the Jetsons here. They're actually based on the Blondie comic strip, so it's really Blondie & Dagwood in space.Oops, you're right! Thanks for correcting my mistake.

And speaking of mistakes and other unexpected things, I'm noticing that many cartoons had lame concepts but they handled them brilliantly: shorts whose core idea is kind of weak ("Steamboat Willie" and "Lady, Play your Mandolin" don't have any plot but they're entertaining and enjoyable) or that were based on dumb things that could have gone horribly wrong if the authors hadn't put some serious work on them (just think in what "Private Snafu" would have been like if Disney had got the contract instead of Schlesinger/Warner, or what "The Gummi Bears" could have been if the characters had actually been gummy bears). Also, many UPAs and plenty of post-theatrical shorts suffer the opposite issue: relevant notions turned into lame cartoons.

But I digress. Back to lame cartoon concepts, Flip the Frog was created so weak that Iwerks and his associates had to change his appearance and personality in every cartoon but the frog didn't survive anyways.

[Marty26]

I assume you're talking about the Jetsons here. They're actually based on the Blondie comic strip, so it's really Blondie & Dagwood in space.

One cartoon's concept I never liked was The Dixie Fryer (by Robert McKimson c. 1960). Some of McKimson's toons around this time has concepts that could have been enjoyable but were dampened by uninspired writing. Here, the concept is just as bad as everything else in the cartoon. This was Pappy and Elvis' follow-up to Backwoods Bunny (by Robert McKimson c. 1959). However, here they do battle with Foghorn Leghorn which really doesn't work. When they tangled with Bugs Bunny, at least it was well established who the fallguys were. Elvis would try to kill Bugs but Bugs would manipulate him so that he'd either injure himself or his Pappy. It's a nice simple premise that works. However, Foghorn Leghorn has a history of manipulating characters which either backfire on him or inspire revenge from that other character and thus finish him off with one elaborate scheme. Therefore, McKimson seemed confused with the handling of the Dixie Fryer. It's like he didn't know who should be getting the short end of the stick the entire time. Sometimes it was Foggy, sometimes it was Elvis. And, worse yet, we the audience are confused about which character we should root for. Do we hope that Foggy loses, or Elvis, or should they all get a sound thrashing? Or should they be friends at the end?

Mark Twain once said "a good novelist is not someone who comes up with a good plot or a good story but rather it's someone who puts two or more characters together into a situation and hopes for interesting results." Well, these three characters in this situation produced confusing results. So, yeah, as you all can tell, The Dixie Fryer gets my vote as one of the lamest concepts for a cartoon.

I actually thought Pappy and Elvis were potentially good foils for old Foggy. My problem with The Dixie Fryer was that it made the rooster into a much smarter and more crafty character than he was really supposed to be. As you said, he's supposed to be this really heavy manipulator - but rather dumb, as well. Here, he was almost the exact opposite. Totally out of character for him.

[Marty26]

American Dad is horrible. IMO it's just unwatchable. A really bad imitation of Family Guy. Family Guy on the other hand is OK. I can watch an episode a couple of times and maybe chuckle once or twice, but if a watch an episode of FG more than twice I tend to find it boring.

I didn't mind Tiny Toons or Animaniacs, but I haven't seen either show since they were first run on TV. Even as a kid I knew that He Man and She Ra were just toy commercials.

Having said that, the worst cartoons for me are shows based on the childhood of classic cartoon characters. These include shows like 'Flintstone Kids', 'Tom & Jerry Kids' and 'Baby Looney Tunes'.

As for golden age cartoons, I never liked the ones with Hipperty Hopper. I suppose part of this was because I really didn't like Sylvester Jr. Not just that but kangaroos look nothing like giant mice. I don't think this was worthy of a whole series of cartoons. Maybe a one shot, but not a whole series.

I also agree with those who disliked the Daffy/Speedy Gonzales cartoons. Just a couple of days ago I was watching the Looney Tunes Show on Boomerang here in Australia and was reminded of just how horrible these shorts really are. The one they showed was Daffy Rents, with Daffy, his mouse catching robot Herman and Speedy. It was just a most horrible seven minutes and yet this is not the worst Daffy/Speedy short ever made.

I've also never really liked the Hippety Hopper shorts much. I do disagree with you about Sylvester, Jr. He is actually a pretty accurate portrayal of the "bratty Daddy's Boy." But Hippety Hopper was definitely a poor character. The only cartoon of his that I really like is Bell Hoppy, mostly because it's probably the most Freleng-ish of McKimson's Sylvester shorts.

Coincidentally, I actually saw Swing Ding Amigo and Daffy's Diner just last night. SDA is IMO one of the best D/S shorts since it actually had a couple surprisingly funny gags (such as the grenade gag - and Daffy's poem after being blown up was a riot), and even though he was still a mean jerk (contrary to what he mumbles to himself while planting the grenade for the aforementioned gag), Daffy at least has a legitimate reason for going after Speedy, namely the racket his nightclub is making. Meanwhile, Daffy's Diner is also a pretty good cartoon. It has a fairly original plot, and El Supremo was admittedly a funny character.

[Mr. Semaj]

American Dad is horrible. IMO it's just unwatchable. A really bad imitation of Family Guy. Family Guy on the other hand is OK. I can watch an episode a couple of times and maybe chuckle once or twice, but if a watch an episode of FG more than twice I tend to find it boring.

I've seen nearly every American Dad episode, and while the show isn't horrible, there's just something about it where you can't really FEEL its presence. They had a great Christmas episode, but I get the impression that the show will be long forgotten by the next decade (I've never been enthusiastic about viewing any episodes more than once, with a few exceptions), which ultimately feeds the criticism of its shadowing Family Guy.

As for Family Guy, they made a few improvements this season over last year, but there are still many problems that the writers are hesitant to correct. The show recently has been teetering between okay and mediocre, and some episodes aren't worth a second watch.

[doctoon]

I think Transylvania 6-5000 is way too chatty. But the lamest for me is Muchos Locos. Speedy just goes back and forth from "stupid duck" to "smart mouse" clips. Only Daffy's mallet at the end breaks the monotony.

"Cheater" cartoons, in general, are lame, but that one is lamest. One thing I always admired about Lantz's cartoons is that he never made a "cheater" for Woody or Chilly. Of course, the cartoons became so repetitious by the 1970s that reusing old clips would have been cheaper than reanimating used material.

[David Gerstein]

Back to lame cartoon concepts, Flip the Frog was created so weak that Iwerks and his associates had to change his appearance and personality in every cartoon but the frog didn't survive anyway.Period reviews and an abundance of merchandise easily suggest that Flip was in fact quite popular with audiences. What really brought him down was corporate politics: MGM suits seemed to dislike the fact that Flip was a frog, while censors objected to the films' high level of racy humor.
As for Flip's personality, I don't see it changing very much from short to short. He's a slightly overenthusiastic, likeable screwup who now and then wins but just as often loses—the latter usually due to some combination of giddiness around girls and/or basic clumsiness.

[Geezil]

[...](or anything to come from the wasteland of Japanese anime)

Now, hold on there for just a moment.

If I might offer a suggestion, pop any of the following names into your search engine for evidence of just how off base that statement is:

Hayao Miyazaki
Konosuke Uda
Shinichiro Watanabe
and most of all, Osamu Tezuka

Also, find yourself a way to view the "Arlong Park" story arc (episodes 31-44) of the One Piece TV series in its original Japanese form (please don't confuse the U.S. dub by 4Kids Entertainment with anything close). If you want quality and intensity in current anime storytelling, it's right there. Just for starters.

[Paperoga]

Now, hold on there for just a moment.

If I might offer a suggestion, pop any of the following names into your search engine for evidence of just how off base that statement is:

Hayao Miyazaki
Konosuke Uda
Shinichiro Watanabe
and most of all, Osamu Tezuka

Also, find yourself a way to view the "Arlong Park" story arc (episodes 31-44) of the One Piece TV series in its original Japanese form (please don't confuse the U.S. dub by 4Kids Entertainment with anything close). If you want quality and intensity in current anime storytelling, it's right there. Just for starters.

It all is a plague on the American drawing style, and when it's done in NA it looks pretentious. I can't stand looking at any of it. Some of the stories are nice though.

[Geezil]

You want lame cartoons? Just look at any made-for-TV animated series that takes an earlier live-action show as its basis, then grafts on an incompatible "new" concept in the name of recycling. This was, of course, done with/to "The Partridge Family," "Gilligan's Island," "Happy Days/Laverne & Shirley/Mork & Mindy," etc., and all quite forgettably so (except in silly posts like this one, of course).

[cngsoft]

Period reviews and an abundance of merchandise easily suggest that Flip was in fact quite popular with audiences. What really brought him down was corporate politics [...] As for Flip's personality, I don't see it changing very much from short to short. [...]I didn't know that Flip actually managed to be succesful, although that explains many things. I have the MK2 FtF integral DVDs (I have the Comicolor DVDs too) and I like Flip's cartoons, but I always assumed that the character was discontinued because it had failed to catch on, hence my opinion about his weakness. Maybe Flip would have fared better during wartime, when his racy adventures would have been much more welcome than in the black-and-white musical 1930s.

And about the MGM suits being upset with Flip being a frog and ultimately replacing him with a boy (Willie Whooper), that makes me think of Fred Quimby's original dislike of Tom and Jerry because they were a cat and a mouse: it sounds like he expected them to be the Van Beuren guys. Maybe Quimby hated funny animals... But I digress.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Columbia's "Giddy Yapping" has a lame concept: a workhorse constantly begs his owner for a lunch break, but the owner is too busy to grant one. That's the entire cartoon -- nothing but expostition. The mediocre execution only adds to the lack of entertainment.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

You want lame cartoons? Just look at any made-for-TV animated series that takes an earlier live-action show as its basis, then grafts on an incompatible "new" concept in the name of recycling. This was, of course, done with/to "The Partridge Family," "Gilligan's Island," "Happy Days/Laverne & Shirley/Mork & Mindy," etc., and all quite forgettably so (except in silly posts like this one, of course).
Any cartoon made in the 70's came from a lame concept. Like "Inch High Private Eye" (the title explains it all), "Grape Ape" (He was a giant purple gorilla. Go figure), "Yogi's Ark", etc. (I'm starting to get sick now, so I'll stop.)

[Mr. Semaj]

I'm beating a dead horse here, but there was a time when John K. discussed how Hanna-Barbera started to deteriorate in the 1960's, I pointed out Klasky-Csupo, since 1998, as a studio that underwent a similar process of deterioration.

Rugrats (1997-2005) - Bringing the show back wasn't the problem, though it had a new creative team that was nowhere near as creative as the one initiated by Paul Germain. The trouble officially began after the first film, where they kept adding new characters, and dumbing the characters down considerably. No character suffered more than Angelica.
One episode that sticks as as their worst-worst was the one where Angelica agrees to be silent for her parents for most of the morning. She is supposed to be the real antagonist on the show, but because she was already softened up at this point, she fell into the same trap where, regardless of who it is, the principal character is needlessly abused throughout the cartoon.

The Wild Thornberrys - This wasn't really a lame concept, and even started out okay. But a lot of incredibly lame stories and characters resulted from the increasing lack of inspiration Klasky-Csupo was undergoing at the time.

Rocket Power - One of THE lamest things ever! A show that tries to be "hip, cool, and fly" by using extreme sports, pretentious characters, and street slang as its primary theme. Horrible, horrible stuff.

As Told By Ginger - Just as lame. A generic show about a girl growing up in middle school and later high school. Practically the same as Lizzie McGuire, Braceface, and many other tweenage shows of the day.

All Grown Up - Not AS pathetic as what the original Rugrats had devolved into at this point, but any instance where the characters "grow up" (the polar opposite of the 80s trend where adult characters become "babies"), along with the original show's fairy tale DVD movies, is just further proof of when a studio can't take a hint that their product is washed-up.

[beau99]

The Wild Thornberrys - This wasn't really a lame concept, and even started out okay. But a lot of incredibly lame stories and characters resulted from the increasing lack of inspiration Klasky-Csupo was undergoing at the time.

Rocket Power - One of THE lamest things ever! A show that tries to be "hip, cool, and fly" by using extreme sports, pretentious characters, and street slang as its primary theme. Horrible, horrible stuff.

As Told By Ginger - Just as lame. A generic show about a girl growing up in middle school and later high school. Practically the same as Lizzie McGuire, Braceface, and many other tweenage shows of the day.

All Grown Up - Not AS pathetic as what the original Rugrats had devolved into at this point, but any instance where the characters "grow up" (the polar opposite of the 80s trend where adult characters become "babies"), along with the original show's fairy tale DVD movies, is just further proof of when a studio can't take a hint that their product is washed-up.
*SIGH*

I like all of these, and have no regrets.

[Douglas E.]

That reminds me: Has anybody else here ever noticed how cats are probably the most antagonized animals in classic cartoons? It seems that in a lot of animalic classic cartoons, cats are often potrayed as the villains and losers (more so than any other animal). Is it because of how preditorial they are, the old (mis)conception that cats have a certain evil to them, or what?

Note: This is coming from a serious cat lover.
I'm a cat lover myself and I love Tom and Jerry, Sylvester, Claude Cat, and other cartoon shorts with cats as the losers. Mabye it's because the cartoon "cats" act like people instead of cats.

-Doug

[Geezil]

[...]The Mickey Mouse short THE KARNIVAL KID (one of my favorite cartoons) is about the only classic 'toon I can think of with reasonably positive-role felines.

[...]I would like to see some pro-cat cartoons--something I could show Eubie without fear of offending his delicate sensibilities!

Have I come in too late on this, or did everybody forget about Feed the Kitty? :)