Who's your favorite of the Nine Old Men?

[looneytooney]

This is kind of a tribute of Ollie Johnston, the last surviving member of the Nine Old Men. These men have really outdone themselves in Disney animation. Which one is your favorite?

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Ward Kimball

[Thad]

They're all great, but it's Ward Kimball by a mile. Sadly, I don't think the answer will vary much throughout this thread.

[looneytooney]

Mine would have to be Frank Thomas and Ollie Johnston. They were really great friends and they worked great together.

[Leviathan]

I really like all the Milt Kahl animation i've seen, so he get's my Vote.

[Mr. Semaj]

Since this isn't multiple choice, I'll pick Marc Davis.

[David Gerstein]

Les Clark was a masterful renderer of Mickey and Oswald in their earliest days. Since that's my favorite period, Clark is my favorite of the Old Men.
That doesn't make him the most accomplished, however—were that the deciding factor, Ward would get my vote.

[Matt the Y]

This may surprise some people but I'm going with Ollie Johnston.

Not at all because he's the last surviving member but because he's done some wonderful character animation in a few of the early 1940's shorts he worked on (all during the WWII years) that just tickles me. I love his animation in "The Pelican and the Snipe", "Chicken Little", and "Reason and Emotion". I also recently discovered (from Thad's "Chicken Little" breakdown) that Johnston is responsible for the squiggle-take I used to associate with Ward Kimball, i.e. when a character is extremely unnerved or emotionally frail about something, his outline goes from being smooth to completely squiggly. Chicken Little does it in the title short when he's being yelled at to "RUN FOR YOUR LIIIFFE!!!" and the Pelican does it in "Pelican and the Snipe" when he awakes from sleep-flying in mid-air, realizes his problem, then subsequently realizes he's ejected the snipe from their home for nothing and starts pummelling himself for being so stupid. I also know he animates the whole scene in "Reason and Emotion" with John Doakes listening to the radio and getting all worked up over the "paranoia propaganda" he's hearing accompanied by all the figures (The man warning him about the subs, the ventriloquist's dummy, the enemy's daggers, the jackass, and the skeleton) haunting him. His complete fear and angst in that scene is wonderfully and manically executed by Johnston's animation.

[mmtper]

That doesn't make him the most accomplished, however—were that the deciding factor, Ward would get my vote.

I would agree with that, Ward was a most versatile and amazing talent. But all of them had their moments of glory, and I would like to put in a good word for Eric Larson, if only because (if John Canemaker's book is accurate) he was a very nice man and a great teacher and mentor of young talent, and you can do few greater things with your life then that.

[fol]

I may be biased as Ollie's the Godfather of my daughter, but he and Frank T tie as most well-rounded animators Disney ever had. All of them had their strengths, but these two offered more than the others. Ollie told me that Walt gave compliments to his animators only on a few rare occasions, and almost never said directly to the animator he was complimenting; mostly using someone else as an intermediary. But I do know personally that Walt complimented Ollie directly, more than any other animator. Ollie told me three great stories of Walt's complimenting him, but that'll have to wait for another time.

Ollie and Frank thought Milt Kahl was the best pure animator, though his range of emotion was limited.

As for Ward Kimball, it was generally understood among the other animators that his characters, although distinctive, ended up being very similar looking; cats, fat faced men, etc. The other main animators also knew that his scope and range was very limited, as he was almost never used to animate realistic characters due to his limitations. Saying he was the best is hard to believe.

[Thad]

Well, all of the Nine Old Men were great animators, but Ollie Johnston seemed to be the one who was pretty limited judging from his overall work. Acting didn't seem to be his strong point in most of the features, and it's clear that his buddy, Frank Thomas, was the better animator.

Trouble is, this point is moot, as they were all great animators with many excellent scenes to point to. Maybe I'll put together a list later.

[fol]

That's a surprising opinion; you must be a Ward Kimball fan.

[Thad]

That's a surprising opinion; you must be a Ward Kimball fan.

Well yes, Ward Kimball is my favorite, but I'm a fan of all the Nine Old Men.
I love ALL classic Disney animation from Oswald to even SOME Pluto and Sleeping Beauty!

[looneytooney]

Well, for some reason, I don't like Sleeping Beauty. I don't why. I just don't.

[Thad]

Well, for some reason, I don't like Sleeping Beauty. I don't why. I just don't.

I don't like that movie overall either but I like some of the animation, but it's also incredibly dull, which is why I'd rank it with Pluto. The film is really design and nothing else, which is probably why John K. waxes on about it.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

As for Ward Kimball, it was generally understood among the other animators that his characters, although distinctive, ended up being very similar looking; cats, fat faced men, etc. The other main animators also knew that his scope and range was very limited, as he was almost never used to animate realistic characters due to his limitations. Saying he was the best is hard to believe.
If "realism" is your yardstick for what defines great animation, then I can see why you wouldn't like Kimball. However, he did some great cartoony, exaggerated and inventive animation for Disney, which is my favorite type of animation. (I find the "realistic" stuff dull and literal. Plus most of it was taken from live action reference.) And he was versatile; he was able to do stylized animation as well as full animation. Plus his animation was fun to look at, and actually humorous -- which was a rarity at Disney.

Some of my favorite Kimball scenes are the Three Caballeros (spelling?) song from the eponymous film, the crows from Dumbo, his scenes of the Marx brothers in Mother Goose Goes Hollywood, and his "drunk Mickey" scenes in The Little Whirlwind and The Nifty Nineties, to name but a few.

(And that scene Thad has on his blog of the Indian Chief from Peter Pan is amazing! John K is always prattling about using different and unique mouth shapes for dialogue -- well look at the chief's mouth shapes in that film! The film just fizzles once the Kimball scenes are over, and the movie focuses on the boring Pan and Wendy again.)

[Thad]

I agree that the designs Pan and Wendy aren't exactly original (compared to the Chief or Hook anyway), but the contrast between those characters and the cartoony designed characters made them that much more different. Stuff like this was planned and done for a purpose.

As for Kimball unable to be subtle, he did some animation of Jimminy Cricket and the Reluctant Dragon playing the flute with the birds, and that isn't exactly crazy stuff.

As for Ollie always being into realistic animation, I've never met a guy like Mr. Smee in real life before...

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Ollie also did some nice cartoon animation of Mickey in Brave Little Tailor. (I believe it's Ollie who does the scene of Mickey telling the King how he killed seven with one blow. If it's another animator, please let me know.)

[Matt the Y]

(And that scene Thad has on his blog of the Indian Chief from Peter Pan is amazing! John K is always prattling about using different and unique mouth shapes for dialogue -- well look at the chief's mouth shapes in that film! The film just fizzles once the Kimball scenes are over, and the movie focuses on the boring Pan and Wendy again.)

Kimball was certainly an expert on "mouth animation". Look at the scene he animated of Martha Raye and Joe E. Brown dancing together in "Mother Goose Goes Hollywood". Those are some crazy-looking mouths, Man!

My favorite Kimball animation is of Foxy Loxy in "Chicken Little". That is some great character animation; he manages to make Foxy Loxy into a likeable villain through his expressions and personality. Kimball does all the animation of the character from his introduction in the film right through to the scene where he tries to enstir "rumors" into Turkey Lurkey and the Smart Set (After that, Milt Kahl takes over animating the character from Loxy enstirring rumors into the Ducks and Geese right through to "Don't believe everything ya read, Brudder!" Why Kimball didn't animate the character for the rest of the cartoon after that I don't quite understand.).

[The Spectre]

Ollie also did some nice cartoon animation of Mickey in Brave Little Tailor. (I believe it's Ollie who does the scene of Mickey telling the King how he killed seven with one blow. If it's another animator, please let me know.)

It's Frank. Ollie did only a few small scenes in this cartoon, most famously the montage with the townspeople all telling *each other* that Mickey killed "seven with one blow".

[J. J. Hunsecker]

It's Frank. Ollie did only a few small scenes in this cartoon, most famously the montage with the townspeople all telling *each other* that Mickey killed "seven with one blow".
Oh, thanks spectre. I always get those two confused. Well, Frank did some nice work then.

Can anyone tell me of a scene Ollie did in one of the great late 30's Disney shorts? I'd like to see what his cartoony animation looks like.

[looneytooney]

Ollie did the scene in THE POINTER with Mickey whistling with his rifle.

[David Gerstein]

As for Ollie always being into realistic animation, I've never met a guy like Mr. Smee in real life before...I have. Don't even go there.

[Thad]

I have. Don't even go there.

Oh my! :shame:

[Paperoga]

I never really found much use in the list. This whole Nine Old Men thing is only about loyalty to Walt, not about talent or influence over peers. If I were going to say who the most important animators at Disney's were, it'd be (alphabetically)...

Art Babbitt
Les Clark
Marc Davis
Fred Moore
Milt Kahl
Ward Kimball
John Sibley
Frank Thomas
Bill Tytla

[Frank]

I voted for Ollie Johnson. His animation is appealing and beautiful. It appears that most of the animation of the titular character on the 1952 Disney short Susie the Blue Coupe.:D

[AcmeCoyote]

Been looking at this topic for a few days now, and I really can't decide. They all really were great. It would be a toss-up betwen Les Clark and Ward Kimball.
For the sake of the poll, I'll say Clark, but only by a hair.