Popeye in Goonland

[AardvarkDog]

This was the earliest Popeye Cartoons I remember seeing some years ago on TV. It was only when I downloaded it from Limewire than I saw something I didn't realise then.

The one I've downloaded, near the end when the film breaks and all the Goons fall through the gap, the film is pieced together by two live action hands and a paper clip before it restarts, yet the one I saw then, the film attached itself without the need of hands.

So why were there two versions of this cartoon? Was the one without hands for the TV release? :sailor:

[Sogturtle]

This was the earliest Popeye Cartoons I remember seeing some years ago on TV. It was only when I downloaded it from Limewire than I saw something I didn't realise then.

The one I've downloaded, near the end when the film breaks and all the Goons fall through the gap, the film is pieced together by two live action hands and a paper clip before it restarts, yet the one I saw then, the film attached itself without the need of hands.

So why were there two versions of this cartoon? Was the one without hands for the TV release? :sailor:

Aardvarkdog~

The "hands" one is the original. The ummmm "hands off";) one was the redrawn. Live action elements were deleted from all redrawns.

[Geezil]

[...]Live action elements were deleted from all redrawns.

Excepting, of course, "Adventures of Popeye," [EDIT]the most unusual of Fleischer's "cheater" shorts, which otherwise would have had to be entirely omitted from the redrawn package. (If only!)

(For anyone who doesn't know or isn't quite sure which short I mean, this is the one and only 97% live-action one featuring a "sissy" kid as he gradually learns what will help him clock the neighborhood bully, with Popeye's advice, delivered in flashbacks.)

[Sogturtle]

Excepting, of course, "Adventures of Popeye," the most unusual "cheater" short apparently produced during the strike at Fleischer, which otherwise would have had to be entirely omitted from the redrawn package. (If only!)

(For anyone who doesn't know or isn't quite sure which short I mean, this is the one and only 97% live-action one featuring a "sissy" kid as he gradually learns what will help him clock the neighborhood bully, with Popeye's advice, delivered in flashbacks.)

Geez~

Yeah, I thought of "Adventures Of Popeye" when I wrote my sparse answer above, I just elected to not mention it (didn't say it was a smart decision on my part:p). I'd have LOVED to have seen them try to edit out the all-important live-action elements for THAT!!:D

[J Lee]

Excepting, of course, "Adventures of Popeye," the most unusual "cheater" short apparently produced during the strike at Fleischer, which otherwise would have had to be entirely omitted from the redrawn package. (If only!)

(For anyone who doesn't know or isn't quite sure which short I mean, this is the one and only 97% live-action one featuring a "sissy" kid as he gradually learns what will help him clock the neighborhood bully, with Popeye's advice, delivered in flashbacks.)

Just a correction on the time line -- "Adventures" was the first Popeye cheater, done in 1935, just after Jack Mercer took over the voicing duties. The strike wasn't until two years later, and the cartoon affected apparently were the ones that came out in early 1938 (when use of the tabletop setbacks in the cartoons all but disappears).

The last B&W Popeye, "Cartoons Ain't Human" from 1943, was another Popeye with animation/live action mixed that saw the live-action hands omitted in the redrawn version the "censored" word just magically appears (I forget if they kept the live-action Groucho eyebrow wiggle in the redrawn "Popeye Meets William Tell", or just left it in B&W as with "Adventures").

[Ray Pointer]

The bright side of the color remakes is that mistakes or omissions like this raise interest, especially when the gags in them don't make sense as in this case.
This only creates a demand to see the originals, which is a good thing. GOONLAND was the third time that the Spinach Climax was altered, with someone other than POPEYE eating the spinach. The first time was in NEVER KICK A WOMAN, where Olive eats it to defeat the female boxer/siren who flirts with POPEYE. And in keeping with the "New Year," the second time was in LET'S CELEBRAKE, where POPEYE feeds the spinach to Olive's grandmother, takes some himself, and they win the dance contest.

[Steve Stanch]

What a great cartoon. Mercer's mutterings are great. It's hard to find a Fleischer Popeye cartoon that isn't good from this period. The music score is especially good too (with a special 'goonland theme').
Animator Gordon Sheehan pointed out that the Kneitel Popeyes (this being one of them) have a lot more reuse than the other directors. Sheehan said he was famous for saying (in his Brookyn accent) "keep it commoischal", and was much more careful of the budgets of these.

Myron Waldman told me that Knietel directed the ending seqence of Gulliver, a very similar action sequence to that in the end of Goonland (and maybe Gulliver would have been better had the film broke and the most annoying characters fell out!). On another note, Waldman animated the loading the bullet in the gun sequence with the spies (struggling with the ball bullett and finally loading it).

I aways found it surpising that the Fleischers (and later Famous) didn't utilize the other characters Segar had created more often.The Jeep shows up only a few times, Geezil once (in the unusually bad Olive's Birthday Presink) and some of the other characters show up briefly in the earliest cartoon (Man on the Flying Trapese and a few others).

A few years back I bought a 35mm Nitrate print on Ebay, only to discover a splice made in it out of a safety pin! Who knows, maybe Goonland inspired a projectionist....

[J Lee]

The Flieschers didn't use the other Segar characters much, but Famous didn't use them at all -- other than the cartoons that re-used clips from the color two-reelers (and his name on the eatery in "Spinach vs. Hambrugers"), Wimpy doesn't make an appearance in a Famous Studios short until 1955, and the remaining characters never show up. In some cases, like "Popeye's Pappy" they go out of their way not to re-use the Goons, even though the story mirrors the original Fleischer short (and thanks to not using them, they managed to get the remake banned from TV for racial characterizations).

That's too bad, because a character like the Sea Hag would have fit in well in another color two-reeler by the Fleischers, while the others like Wimpy, Geesil or the Jeep would have livened up some of the late 40s/early 50s cartoons, when the series really fell into a formula rut.

[AardvarkDog]

Thanks for the help, guys. Intreging at how much you can get out of one cartoon ;)

What a great cartoon. Mercer's mutterings are great. It's hard to find a Fleischer Popeye cartoon that isn't good from this period.

Oh, I agree. I really loved these Popeye Cartoons just to hear the hilarious little mutterings Popeye says in each scene. One of my favorite lines in Goonland was when he was disguising himself as a Goon.

"Hair today, Goon tomorroa!" :D

[Jack G.]

I used to watch the Fleischer Popeyes on an indie station when I was a kid.
Goonland is one I know I didn't see. Well hopefully, I won't have to wait much longer.:sailor:

[Ray Pointer]

[
Steve Stanch]What a great cartoon. Mercer's mutterings are great. It's hard to find a Fleischer Popeye cartoon that isn't good from this period. The music score is especially good too (with a special 'goonland theme').
Animator Gordon Sheehan pointed out that the Kneitel Popeyes (this being one of them) have a lot more reuse than the other directors. Sheehan said he was famous for saying (in his Brookyn accent) "keep it commoischal", and was much more careful of the budgets of these.....


I totally agree that this is a great cartoon. The song "My Pappy" was written by Dave Fleischer and Sammy Timberg, and the Goon theme, "Goon Walk" was also written by Timberg. Regarding Kneitel's cartoons, this one was a twist on the standard climax as mentioned above, and there are no "resuses" of elements in it. When one views the entire series, the reuses in Kneitel's cartoon happen later in the Fleischer series, as well as in the later Famous theatricals and Paramout produced television cartoons for King Features.

The budgets for Popeye cartoons in the 1930s and 40s were $14k-$16k. There are no indications that they ever went over budget since an internal memo to the Paramount sales office states " POPEYE has been... far more profitable than the more expensive Disney product." But there simply was not enough money to do them right. This promoted the concept of "short cuts" that included fast "eases" into overly broad poses, holds, cel overlay slashes, altering exposures of drawings on ones, twos and threes, formulaic animation, and judicious recycling of some material. But reuses did not occur in Kneitel's cartoons alone. WITH POODECK PAPY (1940), "Directed" by Bill Nolan, Pappy is redrawn from Popeye animation used in THE DANCE CONTEST (1934).

QUIET PLEEZE (1941), "Directed" by Willard Bowsky reused footage from SOCK-A-BYE BABY. This included POPEYE knocking down the sky scraper under construction, and smashing a radio, sending his punch over the air waves, and into the face of the corny cruner--coming to him "out of 'nowhere'." Usually reprinted scenes matched stylistically, but in this cartoon they do not because Popeye's character design had been refined compared to what was done seven years before. Even with the evolution of the series, on the whole, it maintained a certain visual consistency. Gordon Sheehan's recollections are not based on a successive viewing of the cartoons, but are the result of his impressions. The "impression" that Kneitel's cartoons contained more reused animation is based on the fact that he directed more cartoons than the others, and was head of production of the POPEYE unit by 1940. In all due respect, Sheehan does not seem to have been one of Fleischer's stellar animators, but was certainly a servicable worker for many years, as was Myron Waldman.

The issue with any of these veterans is that they tended to have their own "agendas" in their stories which tended to twist facts from time to time, colored by lasting impressions of experiences decades past. Waldman told me that "Kneitel didn't draw very well, but he could layout and entire picture." This statement not only does not make sense, but is entirely false. Kneitel did indeed draw well, and in many ways he may have been a better animator and director than Waldman. There was something of a warm, naivete' about some of these men, and this applied to Myron. While his reasoning was right about some prinicples in animation, his taking pride in creating PUDGY as "a replacement for BIMBO, who nobody liked" is just such an example of this naivete'.


Steve Stanch]I aways found it surpising that the Fleischers (and later Famous) didn't utilize the other characters Segar had created more often.The Jeep shows up only a few times, Geezil once (in the unusually bad Olive's Birthday Presink) and some of the other characters show up briefly in the earliest cartoon (Man on the Flying Trapese and a few others)......


Regarding the issue of why other Thimble Theater characters were not used presents an interesting question. In 1938, when alternatives to BLUTO as the villian were sought after the death of Gus Wikie, the voice of BLUTO, why didn't they use THE SEA HAG? That would have been an interesting twist adding a new direction for the stories. Speculation is that it had partly to do with the licensing of the characters, which was very cheap, King Features' reluctance to license the other characters, or a reluctance on the part of the story team of Jack Ward and Joe Stultz to shift their thinking about the story formula. This question could also be posed to Max or Dave Fleischer as to why they didn't realize this as well. It is most likely that Paramount prevented them from altering too much from the formula, in spite of the fact that some of the worst cartoons of the 1940s did this very thing. For me, POPEYE MEETS WILLIAM TELL, "Directed" by Shamus (James) Culhane is a bad, miscast idea in total violation of POPEYE'S character, and largely unfunny. I wouldn't say that OLIVE'S BOITHDAY PRESINK was that terrible since I always found the scene of the little bunny tugging at the supposed "Polar Bear" coat saying, "Mommy, mommy" was funny. This was the only time GEEZIL was featured in a prominant role with a voice in the theatricals.


A few years back I bought a 35mm Nitrate print on Ebay, only to discover a splice made in it out of a safety pin! Who knows, maybe Goonland inspired a projectionist


Too bad it wasn't a print of GOONLAND. You'd have had a "reel" collector's item!
Popeye drawing by
Seymour Kneitel

[Jack G.]

Regarding the issue of why other Thimble Theater characters were not used presents an interesting question. In 1938, when alternatives to BLUTO as the villian were sought after the death of Gus Wikie, the voice of BLUTO, why didn't they use THE SEA HAG? That would have been an interesting twist adding a new direction for the stories. Speculation is that it had partly to do with the licensing of the characters, which was very cheap, King Features' reluctance to license the other charactersI remember reading that for the 1960's TV Popeyes they changed Bluto's name to Brutus to avoid paying licensing.
But they did actually use the Sea Hag. Segar certainly had some great characters that could have made things more interesting.

I read once their were complaints frome theaters because the spinach formula wasn't used in one of the early Popeyes,
so there probably was some pressure to stick to the formula.

[Gordan]

I aways found it surpising that the Fleischers (and later Famous) didn't utilize the other characters Segar had created more often.The Jeep shows up only a few times, Geezil once (in the unusually bad Olive's Birthday Presink) and some of the other characters show up briefly in the earliest cartoon (Man on the Flying Trapese and a few others).

Steve, I think Geezil also appears at the end of A CLEAN SHAVEN MAN (1936).

[Thad]

"Goonland" is my very favorite Fleischer cartoon, Popeye or otherwise. I don't think Seymour Kneitel ever did better work.

[gdX]

Greatest Popeye ever!

Willingness to go outside the Popeye-Olive-Bluto formula, plus a zillion thoughtful little details make this a one-of-a-kind Popeye cartoon for the ages.

One such detail: note how the Goon Walk theme changes from a lumbering melody (reinforcing the Goons) to a sprightly one as Popeye walks through the crowd (reinforcing his poor attempt at disguise)... brilliant.

I can't help but laugh out loud every time I see that... after viewing it regularly for over 50 years.


I used to watch the Fleischer Popeyes on an indie station when I was a kid. Goonland is one I know I didn't see. Well hopefully, I won't have to wait much longer.:sailor:
How 'bout today?... long download, but worth the wait: http://tinyurl.com/swt5m

"Hair today, goon tomorrow"

[Ray Pointer]

=Masked Stinker]I remember reading that for the 1960's TV Popeyes they changed Bluto's name to Brutus to avoid paying licensing.
But they did actually use the Sea Hag. Segar certainly had some great characters that could have made things more interesting.


BLUTO was intoduced in the 6/14/1933 strip story, "The Eight Sea," and will billed as "The Only Man Living who Might Lick Popeye." He was decribed as "Bluto the Terrible--lower than bilge scum, meaner than Satan, and strong as an ox." While BLUTO appeared only in this one adventure, he was adapted as the villian for the theatrical series.
Because he was not a continuing character, King Features did not realize that they owned the name to the character as established in the beginning. And when Bud Sagendorf took over the strip after the death of Elzie Segar, the originator, BLUTO was added to the cast of regular characters as "BRUTUS." It's only been in the last 20 years that the
ambiguity of the name ownership was settled.

Other assumptions for the name change have been based on silly confusions of the similarity in the "sound" of the names BLUTO and PLUTO, and that Disney forced the issue of the name change. This is silly for the simple fact that the character remained as BLUTO for 24 years. As for the names sounding too much alike, the quality of the recordings were cetainly good enough for anyone with normal hearing ability to be able to determine the difference. So such an explanation is not only illconcluded but rediculous. "BLUTO done it!"


I read once their were complaints frome theaters because the spinach formula wasn't used in one of the early Popeyes,
so there probably was some pressure to stick to the formula.


It was Lou Diamond, head of Paramount's Short Subject division who complained about the lack of a Spinach sequence in the second POPEYE cartoon before it was released. Paramount was seeking a brand formula to build the series on, and it turned out that the Spinach climax "gimmick" was a big crowd pleaser, anticipating POPEYE'S Spinach eating to "fuel" the denouement, or turning point of the story.
It was later on that some cartoons omitted the Spinach sequences.
The first was THE JEEP (1938), folowed by COPS IS ALWAYS RIGHT (1938), LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE (1939), POPEYE PRESENTS EUGENE, THE JEEEP (1940), and OLIVE'S SWEEPSTAKES TICKET (1940).
But GOONLAND was probably one of the best because it was loosly based on Segar's story "The Quest for Poopdeck Pappy."

[Ray Pointer]

Steve, I think Geezil also appears at the end of A CLEAN SHAVEN MAN (1936).

Yes!

[Leviathan]

When I caught this cartoon at night on the Cartoon Network years ago, I literally thought seeing it was a once in a lifetime event, because seeing the Popeye cartoons on TV was such a rare thing in my childhood, my parents brought me up to love the Fleischer cartoons (and they had copies of Cartoon Madness and The Fleischer Story for me to reinforce that love), and because it's probably one of the quintessential Popeye cartoons.

[Jack G.]

BLUTO ...Because he was not a continuing character, King Features did not realize that they owned the name to the character as established in the beginning. And when Bud Sagendorf took over the strip after the death of Elzie Segar, the originator, BLUTO was added to the cast of regular characters as "BRUTUS." It's only been in the last 20 years that the ambiguity of the name ownership was settled.

...But GOONLAND was probably one of the best because it was loosly based on Segar's story "The Quest for Poopdeck Pappy."Ahhh! Thanks for clearing up the Bluto/Brutus bit.

I had a copy of The Quest for Poopdeck Pappy from a volume of The Complete E. C. Segar.

I also bought volume 1 of Fantagraphics' reprint of Segar's Popeye, so I'm hoping to have that Bluto story eventually.

How 'bout today?... long download, but worth the wait: http://tinyurl.com/swt5m (http://tinyurl.com/swt5m)
Thanks. My computer has such a slow download though.

[MarkTheShark]

Geez~

Yeah, I thought of "Adventures Of Popeye" when I wrote my sparse answer above, I just elected to not mention it (didn't say it was a smart decision on my part:p). I'd have LOVED to have seen them try to edit out the all-important live-action elements for THAT!!:D

I nominate "Adventures Of Popeye" for a special place in the "Redrawn Hall Of Shame." All the live-action is left in black and white, while all the animation is redrawn in color. This results in a scene where the Popeye character comes to life from the front of a comic book (in color), talking to the kid (in black and white). It's a mess. I mean, even more than usual for these knock-offs.

[Geezil]

[...]It was later on that some cartoons omitted the Spinach sequences.
The first was THE JEEP (1938), folowed by COPS IS ALWAYS RIGHT (1938), LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE (1939), POPEYE PRESENTS EUGENE, THE JEEEP (1940), and OLIVE'S SWEEPSTAKES TICKET (1940).

There was also I'LL NEVER CROW AGAIN (1941), in which Popeye rather uncharacteristically went for a shotgun rather than his "spinich."

[Gordan]

QUIET PLEEZE (1941), "Directed" by Willard Bowsky reused footage from SOCK-A-BYE BABY. This included POPEYE knocking down the sky scraper under construction, and smashing a radio, sending his punch over the air waves, and into the face of the corny cruner--coming to him "out of 'nowhere'." Usually reprinted scenes matched stylistically, but in this cartoon they do not because Popeye's character design had been refined compared to what was done seven years before.

Indeed, the inserted old footage is totally out of place in this cartoon. Even people who do not know much about animated films can notice the jarring stylistic discontinuity between the new and the archival footage. Not only did Popeye's design change in the period between 1934 and 1941, but his personality changed as well. Mercer's early 40s Popeye was a much gentler and courteous character than William Costello's rough "sock-'em-first-then-ask-questions" version of the ol' runt from 1934. In addition to all this, Kneitel's Popeye and Bowsky's Popeye never looked quite the same, even in Fleischer cartoons from the same year. Add to that more general differences such as character animation or background detail in 1934 vs. 1941, and you get the kind of stylistic disparity that would make even the most postmodern anti-continuity filmmakers scratch their heads. Can you just imagine what kind of visual inconsistency we would have had Disney attempted to insert some 1934 footage in a regular 1941 cartoon? Almost unimaginable...


Regarding the issue of why other Thimble Theater characters were not used presents an interesting question. In 1938, when alternatives to BLUTO as the villian were sought after the death of Gus Wikie, the voice of BLUTO, why didn't they use THE SEA HAG? That would have been an interesting twist adding a new direction for the stories.

I wonder what the Fleischers' version of the Sea Hag would look like. Segar's Sea Hag was quite unappealing in her design and would hardly fit in the Fleischers' 1938 universe.

I must admit that even though I hate King Features' TV Popeyes, they did a mighty fine job in re-designing the Sea Hag.

[Studio Toledo]

It was Lou Diamond, head of Paramount's Short Subject division who complained about the lack of a Spinach sequence in one of the early POPEYE cartoons before it was released. Paramount was seeking a brand formula to build the series on, and it turned out that the Spinach climax "gimmick" was a big crowd pleaser, anticipating POPEYE'S Spinach eating to "fuel" the denouement, or turning point of the story.
It was later on that some cartoons omitted the Spinach sequences.
The first was THE JEEP (1938), folowed by COPS IS ALWAYS RIGHT (1938), LEAVE WELL ENOUGH ALONE (1939), POPEYE PRESENTS EUGENE, THE JEEEP (1940), and OLIVE'S SWEEPSTAKES TICKET (1940).
But GOONLAND was probably one of the best because it was loosly based on Segar's story "The Quest for Poopdeck Pappy."
Often I think the BEST Popeye cartoons I've ever seen where the ones where he DIDN'T use his spinach at all. They were not too predictable and often had pretty good stories as opposed to the same ol' formulaic nature we'd see outside it.

[Gordan]

There was also I'LL NEVER CROW AGAIN (1941), in which Popeye rather uncharacteristically went for a shotgun rather than his "spinich."

What about Flies Ain't Human (1941)? Spinach is actually used against Popeye in what, I think, was the first cartoon that pitied Popeye (in the role of "villain") against a small "cute" animal. What a horrific decision...Popeye :sailor: in a Donald Duck:donald: role:rolleyes: .

[Studio Toledo]

I nominate "Adventures Of Popeye" for a special place in the "Redrawn Hall Of Shame." All the live-action is left in black and white, while all the animation is redrawn in color. This results in a scene where the Popeye character comes to life from the front of a comic book (in color), talking to the kid (in black and white). It's a mess. I mean, even more than usual for these knock-offs.
I'm only amused they even bother doing that at all (Imagine if the same had been done with WB's "You Ought To Be in Pictures", which would've been even more inspid given the live-action/animation crossover shots).

Haven't seen "Adventures of Popeye" in a long while, but have the B&W on tape otherwise, usually I don't care for the cheater/filler shorts that much for the obvious reason.

By the way, going off-topic like I do, remember that silly Popeye vid I made that used to be up on YouTube a while ago (inspired by the editing a local UHF station in Detroit liked doing in my childhood), before they kicked me out? Well, someone 1-uped me apparently, though it's such a topical gag and not something I recommend the weak of heart to view unless you have a taste for this sort of toilet humor so common today....

"Popeye vs. E. Coli" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPjDS14DxxE)

Really, the ideas some people just have to bring out!

[Studio Toledo]

There was also I'LL NEVER CROW AGAIN (1941), in which Popeye rather uncharacteristically went for a shotgun rather than his "spinich."
Some of the classics of the early Famous Studios era also come to my mind like "Me Musical Nephews" and "Happy Birthdaze".

[Studio Toledo]

Indeed, the inserted old footage is totally out of place in this cartoon. Even people who do not know much about animated films can notice the jarring stylistic discontinuity between the new and the archival footage. Not only did Popeye's design change in the period between 1934 and 1941, but his personality changed as well. Mercer's early 40s Popeye was a much gentler and courteous character than William Costello's rough "sock-'em-first-then-ask-questions" version of the ol' runt from 1934. In addition to all this, Kneitel's Popeye and Bowsky's Popeye never looked quite the same, even in Fleischer cartoons from the same year. Add to that more general differences such as character animation or background detail in 1934 vs. 1941, and you get the kind of stylistic disparity that would make even the most postmodern anti-continuity filmmakers scratch their heads. Can you just imagine what kind of visual inconsistency we would have had Disney attempted to insert some 1934 footage in a regular 1941 cartoon? Almost unimaginable...
Heh, funny how much a big deal this would be to us today! (yet I often have to question the use of clips from "She Was an Acrobat's Daughter" that Clampett used for "Bacall to Arms", since that often felt a tad jarring to me personally). It's like an effort of being TOO cheap and not even bother to do anything if you know you can go back into the archives and pull up a clip to use whenever (what I hated seeing the producers do with The Simpsons after the first couple seasons). Often times it's a last-minute post-production type deal where something comes up and you wanna throw that in as fast as possible even though it either makes or breaks a scene in general .

I wonder what the Fleischers' version of the Sea Hag would look like. Segar's Sea Hag was quite unappealing in her design and would hardly fit in the Fleischers' 1938 universe.

I must admit that even though I hate King Features' TV Popeyes, they did a mighty fine job in re-designing the Sea Hag.
Haven't seen those in a long while.

[Ray Pointer]

Not only did Popeye's design change in the period between 1934 and 1941, but his personality changed as well. Mercer's early 40s Popeye was a much gentler and courteous character than William Costello's rough "sock-'em-first-then-ask-questions" version of the ol' runt from 1934. In addition to all this, Kneitel's Popeye and Bowsky's Popeye never looked quite the same, even in Fleischer cartoons from the same year. Add to that more general differences such as character animation or background detail in 1934 vs. 1941, and you get the kind of stylistic disparity that would make even the most postmodern anti-continuity filmmakers scratch their heads. Can you just imagine what kind of visual inconsistency we would have had Disney attempted to insert some 1934 footage in a regular 1941 cartoon? Almost unimaginable...


When Disney was using this technique for their television shows,there was an "attempt" at making linking animation to match the vintage work. It didn't match. The same applies to the replacement scene in THE THREE LITTLE PIGS. The famous Jewish Peddler sequence was remade in the 1940s, and in all later prints there are two scenes that do not match the rest of the picture, noticed primarily by the use of the opaque backgroud painting techniqe then in use compared to the watercolor wash technique they used until the early 1940s.


I wonder what the Fleischers' version of the Sea Hag would look like. Segar's Sea Hag was quite unappealing in her design and would hardly fit in the Fleischers' 1938 universe. I must admit that even though I hate King Features' TV Popeyes, they did a mighty fine job in re-designing the Sea Hag.

I would imagine that the Fleischer's approach would have been very much like the TV redesign, which was very good compared to the Segar original in terms of greater personality in the face and a strong profile. See below. On the left is the original comic strip Sea Hag, and on the right is the television redesign. So with the law of averages, you've got to admit, they've got to slip up and create something good once in a while.

[Studio Toledo]

I would imagine that the Fleischer's approach would have been very much like the TV redesign, which was very good compared to the Segar original in terms of greater personality in the face and a strong profile. See below. On the left is the original comic strip Sea Hag, and on the right is the television redesign. So with the law of averages, you've got to admit, they've got to slip up and create something good once in a while.
Being reminded of how those TV designs would make their appearance 20 years later in the arcades of America thanks to the Nintendo (http://www.klov.com/P/Popeye.html) game of the same name!

http://ggdb.com/img/ggdb/vol1/2133_1_fs_bz.jpg

[J Lee]

If you go back and look at the KFS designs, each of the six units (Paramount, Kinney, Harmon, TV Spots, Halas and Batchelor and Rembrandt films) had their own variations on the characters, once they met a certain level of design. Most of the images taken from that period that are used today seem to have been the designs used by Jack Kinney's unit, though the ones done by Paramount are the most on-model (no surprise, since Kneitel & Co. had dealt with the characters for a quarter-century, even if the Sea Hag, Rough House and the Wiffle Bird had never been used by Famous or the Fleischers during the theatrical run).

[J Lee]

[/color][/font]I would imagine that the Fleischer's approach would have been very much like the TV redesign, which was very good compared to the Segar original in terms of greater personality in the face and a strong profile. See below. On the left is the original comic strip Sea Hag, and on the right is the television redesign. So with the law of averages, you've got to admit, they've got to slip up and create something good once in a while.

The Sea Hag design for the KFS Popeyes bears a little similarity to the design of the villian Dave Tendlar's unit came up with for the "Aladdin" two-reeler in 1939 -- different gender, but similar body and facial angles. Make a few adjustments to that character, and that's the way the Sea Hag probably would have been animated if the Fleischers had decided to use the character during the theatrical run (on the other hand, who knows what she would have looked like if Famous had used her in the late 1940s or early 1950s, since the opted to redesign Swe' Pea at that time to look like a more standard baby.)

[Jack G.]

I wonder what the Fleischers' version of the Sea Hag would look like. Segar's Sea Hag was quite unappealing in her design and would hardly fit in the Fleischers' 1938 universe.Well, you saw the image Ray posted of Bluto from Segar and it's quite different style-wise from what appears in the Fleischer films.
It obviously had to be changed some in order to be animated. So hypothetically, I think Fleischer would've
been able to make the Sea Hag fit in style-wise just fine.