The Best copy of "Coal Black" available in the world!

[Duck Dodgers]

Yessir, it took me years, but at last I've found it.
This is as good as the one owned by the ASIFA archive.

Take a look at some screenshots!!!

http://classiccartoons.blogspot.com/2006/08/so-white-never-looked-so-good.html


..and let me know your thoughts!!!

[grundle]

Yes. I agree. It looks great.

You say you have all 11 like that. Maybe this means they've been restored for a future DVD release? Hmm...

[BloodyChamp]

Excellent.

[nickramer]

It just can't get any better than this print!

By the way Dodgers, do you read the list on what's going to be on the next Golden Collection?

[Duck Dodgers]

It just can't get any better than this print!

By the way Dodgers, do you read the list on what's going to be on the next Golden Collection?

Yes, I've read it.
It sounds like a great set. I'm only gettin' tired of the Bugs Bunny discs. I'd love to see the first disc entirely devoted to Daffy.

[Fredrik]

..and let me know your thoughts!!!

Well, it's hard to appreciate the detail from such low resolution images. Maybe you could post one or two hi-res frame grabs?

The color is stunning for sure, is it from an IB Tech print or what? I own a 16mm print on Agfa stock that also has excellent color, but maybe not quite as vivid as this.

[Duck Dodgers]

Well, it's hard to appreciate the detail from such low resolution images. Maybe you could post one or two hi-res frame grabs?



If you look on them shots you will be automatically redirected to bigger versions.
Anyway here you have one very big version of a funny shot in the picture.

http://photos1.blogger.com/blogger/4555/1841/1600/PDVD_059.36.jpg

[Studio Toledo]

Well, it's hard to appreciate the detail from such low resolution images. Maybe you could post one or two hi-res frame grabs?

The color is stunning for sure, is it from an IB Tech print or what? I own a 16mm print on Agfa stock that also has excellent color, but maybe not quite as vivid as this.
Judging from the exposed frame lines, this appears to had been telecined by Turner Entertainment, possibly in the late 80's when they began to show these cartoons on TNT in that state. I could always tell them apart from the way the cartoons weren't always framed appropriately, often showing too much of the bottom frame so they weren't centered too well than they could be if this cartoon was given the restoration treatment like the others.

[drsd2kill]

The screenshots look exactly like the transfer the Animation Archive has - even down to the overexposed flaws in their transfer and the framing.

I'd like to see screenshots of JUNGLE JITTERS and ALL THAT AND RABBIT STEW in high quality. It seems all of the versions on video stem from the same PD prints that are either quite red or green. I tried doing some color correction in Final Cut Pro with these versions, and the results were a major improvement, but they still don't compare with the excellent transfers I have of the other 9 "Censored 11" (some of which I made corrections to myself, including fixing the ending of HITTIN' THE TRAIL which has botched sound and picture at the end from the archival element Turner made a transfer of in the 80's) and other rare uncensored cartoons from Laserdisc.

Let us see JUNGLE JITTERS and ALL THAT AND RABBIT STEW! :-)

[Thad]

I dunno if this counts with all the talk of flaws in every single print these days, but I got what I consider a great looking copy of "Jungle Jitters" today.

[frizfrelengfan]

:sowhite: never looked so sexy...

[Tom Stathes]

Maybe this means they've been restored for a future DVD release? Hmm...
All it could mean is a collector has superb 35mm prints. I know this is the case as far as Dodgers' transfers go. Whether or not the collector has been approached for contributing to an official DVD mastering remains a mystery to me.

[captchucky]

Oh, Man!!! That is a beautiful print. It shows just how great Clampett's unit was at this time. Yow!!!

[Martin Juneau]

Great quality print!!! Hope only it was released on DVD very soon tough :rolleyes:

[Javeman]

Nice pics. Reminds me of a version that aired down here on TV last year.

[Dr. Killpatient]

Congrats on your find, Duck Dodgers. :)

[drsd2kill]

I dunno if this counts with all the talk of flaws in every single print these days, but I got what I consider a great looking copy of "Jungle Jitters" today.

That JUNGLE JITTERS looks very good to me, though I would properly center it in Final Cut Pro. Now I need to find one that looks like that for my collection, as well as a good version of ALL THAT AND RABBIT STEW.

[Thad]

I own a great 16mm print of "Coal Black" as well. I'm screening it at the MANC (http://www.midatlanticnostalgiaconvention.com) in two weeks... Let's see what the audience reaction is! :sowhite:

[BillC]

I myself have 10 of the 11 censored 11 excellent 16mm copies.
my print of sunday go to meetin time has the original title cards (NOT BR)

the only one I'm missing in 16mm is ISLE OF PINGO PONGO
I do ahave a surperb super 8 color sound print of that.

BillC

[Duck Dodgers]

I myself have 10 of the 11 censored 11 excellent 16mm copies.
my print of sunday go to meetin time has the original title cards (NOT BR)

BillC


Could you please post screenshots of the title cards?
Opening, credits and closing please...

[BillC]

DUCK DODGERS,

I'll post them later this evening when i get home.

BillC

[Duck Dodgers]

DUCK DODGERS,

I'll post them later this evening when i get home.

BillC

OK.
I suppose to speak for everyone here when I say that I can hardly wait to see them.

[Cool Cat]

http://classiccartoons.blogspot.com/2006/08/so-white-never-looked-so-good.html


Great color quality! This is quite better than my Derann super8 print. Have you the original 35mm print or a mpeg2 file?

[Duck Dodgers]

Great color quality! This is quite better than my Derann super8 print. Have you the original 35mm print or a mpeg2 file?

I got two DVDS that a friend gave me with this and other censored classics in this amazing quality.
Same thing for ALL the b/w Popeyes in chronological order and restored form.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

I own a great 16mm print of "Coal Black" as well. I'm screening it at the MANC (http://www.midatlanticnostalgiaconvention.com/) in two weeks... Let's see what the audience reaction is! :sowhite:

Thad, can you post how the audience does react to it? I'd be very interested in hearing how a modern audience reacts to the cartoon today. Especially if it's a racially mixed audience.

[Cool Cat]

I can say something about when my family seen this cartoon. They didn't understood any word, due to their english knowledges. But they liked the rhytm of this cartoon, wich is (in their opinion) very enjoyable even for who don't like so much those cartoons (expecially for my brother, he's 13).

[mammy2shoesfan]

That version looks so good. Everytime I seen its very choppy thats the best I've seen.

[BillC]

Duck Dodgers,

trying to get a good screen shot of the film while it's running

I havn;t been able to get a good title shot but can send you what I captured.


the pix I did take do not due this cartoon JUSTICE
if you pm me your email addy I'll forward it right to you.
you can see from the title card who actually worked on the film, music and animation ect

BillC

[mmm...donuts]

I suppose that title card resembles the look of the other 1936 Merrie Melodies, with the titles on a blue concentric circles background, right?

[BillC]

I suppose that title card resembles the look of the other 1936 Merrie Melodies, with the titles on a blue concentric circles background, right?


Yes thats right and with a red WB shield.

[rex racer]

Hi Bill, nice to catch you here! :)

Just curious, on the second screen what is the production number in the oval box with the square ends towards the bottom of the screen? I can't make it out on the grabs you sent me earlier.... This is lost data for us historians!!!


Here's the film title card grab for our friends here to drool over... sorry I couldn't boost it any better.....

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d144/rexracerrx7/HPIM03712.jpg

Del

(Be sure and check out 16mmfilmtalk when you get a chance!)

[BillC]

Hi DEl,

I'll run the film again and get the production number for you

Was surprised to see BOB Mckimsons name as a animator for this classic.
The other Animator was Paul Smith

music director was Norm Spencer.

Thanks DEL for posting the screen shot
please forgive the way it is presented I am in the middle of building a stage
for my home theater and put up a temporary sheet untill my real screen
comes in and I can mount it.

[Mattee]

I got two DVDS that a friend gave me with this and other censored classics in this amazing quality.
Same thing for ALL the b/w Popeyes in chronological order and restored form.

Wow! You managed to find it on a DVD with this quality? Thanks for posting so many pictures, they're absolutely gorgeous! I've never managed to see Coal Black in all it's colorful glory, but now I at least have seen how it should look. I would love to be able to find such a DVD for our school library, every animation student should be able to watch this. It's a shame they keep this marvelous piece of sheer energy locked away not only from the public, but for those who can learn a great deal from watching it.

[Duck Dodgers]

Wow! You managed to find it on a DVD with this quality? Thanks for posting so many pictures, they're absolutely gorgeous! I've never managed to see Coal Black in all it's colorful glory, but now I at least have seen how it should look. I would love to be able to find such a DVD for our school library, every animation student should be able to watch this. It's a shame they keep this marvelous piece of sheer energy locked away not only from the public, but for those who can learn a great deal from watching it.

Thanks to you and all you happy tax payers around here for the nice words.
Link to my blog's post as much as you can. Post about it on your blogs too!
I'd like to see the greatest number of people to be able to see great quality screenshots from "Coal Black".
Not only it is a difficult-to-see cartoon, but the available copies are usually crappy too!

[Thad]

Thad, can you post how the audience does react to it? I'd be very interested in hearing how a modern audience reacts to the cartoon today. Especially if it's a racially mixed audience.

I don't think it should be too bad - The convention is also doing a stage renenactment of an Amos n' Andy. "Un-PC" wise I am also screening "Which is Witch".

[Studio Toledo]

Here's the film title card grab for our friends here to drool over... sorry I couldn't boost it any better.....

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d144/rexracerrx7/HPIM03712.jpg

Del

(Be sure and check out 16mmfilmtalk when you get a chance!)
Well that's interesting!

[wackyoverkhaki]

You lucky duck! Nice to see more screengrabs of my favorite 2-dimensional pinup queen:sowhite: But let's see her smooch her way out of a parking ticket.;)

[Snafuperman!]

Yessir, it took me years, but at last I've found it.
This is as good as the one owned by the ASIFA archive.

Take a look at some screenshots!!!

http://classiccartoons.blogspot.com/2006/08/so-white-never-looked-so-good.html


..and let me know your thoughts!!!

...my thoughts?? the screen grabs look nice...I think it'll be wonderful when EVERYBODY, and not just the few who know the 'right people', can own a copy of this cartoon...

[rodney]

People at those nostalgia conventions usually don't blink twice at shorts like Coal Black. They're usually the ones championing for these shorts to be released and seen by larger audiences.

[Duck Dodgers]

...my thoughts?? the screen grabs look nice...I think it'll be wonderful when EVERYBODY, and not just the few who know the 'right people', can own a copy of this cartoon...

I agree 100%.
But try to imagine yourself in my situation.
I gave my word not to give away these cartoons. These were the conditions that the guy that gave them to me wanted to be respected.
And I'm a guy that respect his word.:)

[Fredrik]

I agree 100%.
But try to imagine yourself in my situation.
I gave my word not to give away these cartoons.

It's tricky. Strictly speaking, Coal Black is a copyrighted film that no one without the copyrightholder's authorization can legally copy and distribute. But, since no copies are available commercially, I don't think that anyone here morally blames the "bootleggers" of Coal Black. Without the copies that circulate (illegally) among collectors, very few of us would ever have seen this film.

So what to do when a collector gives away a copy to someone but insists that this person make no further copies? I don't know what I would have done in that situation. I would not like to accept a copy of a film under such conditions. Clearly the collector has no legal rights to the film; he chooses not to respect the copyright himself, but expects others to respect his wishes. That's preposterous, really!

But of course, I don't know what this guy's motives are.

But things being the way they are, the title of the thread is inaccurate; this is not "the best copy of 'Coal Black' available in the world", since it is not at all available! (And it is probably not the best unavailable copy either, I guess WB has a few of those in their vaults.)

Sorry if I came off sounding bitter here; I'm not, really, and I don't blame you Dodgers for how you've handled this, I might have done just the same myself, I don't know. And, as I've said, I have a near-perfect 16mm copy of this particular beauty of a short myself. :sowhite: Those are, by the way, not particularly hard to come by.

[Duck Dodgers]

It's tricky. Strictly speaking, Coal Black is a copyrighted film that no one without the copyrightholder's authorization can legally copy and distribute. But, since no copies are available commercially, I don't think that anyone here morally blames the "bootleggers" of Coal Black. Without the copies that circulate (illegally) among collectors, very few of us would ever have seen this film.

So what to do when a collector gives away a copy to someone but insists that this person make no further copies? I don't know what I would have done in that situation. I would not like to accept a copy of a film under such conditions. Clearly the collector has no legal rights to the film; he chooses not to respect the copyright himself, but expects others to respect his wishes. That's preposterous, really!

But of course, I don't know what this guy's motives are.

But things being the way they are, the title of the thread is inaccurate; this is not "the best copy of 'Coal Black' available in the world", since it is not at all available! (And it is probably not the best unavailable copy either, I guess WB has a few of those in their vaults.)

Sorry if I came off sounding bitter here; I'm not, really, and I don't blame you Dodgers for how you've handled this, I might have done just the same myself, I don't know. And, as I've said, I have a near-perfect 16mm copy of this particular beauty of a short myself. :sowhite: Those are, by the way, not particularly hard to come by.

I understand your point.
And your thoughts about the use of the word "available" are correct.
When I'll post shots from "Clean Pastures", I will call the thread "The Best copy of 'Clean Pastures' in the world".
And yes, I do think this is the best copy because it is restored, while the WB one is probably not.
Also, when I say that this is the best one, I do not mean that it is the only one.
This copy is the best but, as far as I know, the ASIFA one is just like this.
What I meant is that this is the best version and, of course, there can be lots of copies of it, not only one.
So, the best title for this thread should have been "The Best version of 'Coal Black' in the world".
That would satisfy everyone!


Also, as far as I know, there is nothing illegal to trade or give away copies of cartoons.
We GACers ( well, the great majority of us) are doing this from years!
What is illegal is to sell copies of cartoons.

And...come on, how can a guy refuse to receive perfect copies of the "Censored Eleven" just because he have to give his word that he will not do further copies?
I got the luck to become friend of an italian guy that gave me an incredible number of rarities under these conditions.
And even if I'm sorry that I cannot share them with you or use them for trades, I consider myself incredibly lucky to have obtained them, even with them conditions.

[sarah]

Copyright is a complete crock, it was supposed to protect work for the lifetime of the originator (25 years). But US pressure groups have extended this beyond all reason, and made a mockery of its' original aims. If only the rest of the world had stood up to the USA.

Disney and Time/Warner have too much money and will never allow copyright to expire on any items they control ....... no matter how much they have to bribe congress, so let's not kid ourselves that copyright has any purpose except as a tool for big companies to repress the workers.

[Javeman]

And...come on, how can a guy refuse to receive perfect copies of the "Censored Eleven" just because he have to give his word that he will not do further copies?Honestly? I wouldn't have accepted the copy either. First, I don't want to compromise myself on such an important thing among collectors. I'd hate myself if I owned the only copy of a cartoon and not be able to make it public.

Second, I don't make promises that somehow restrict my free will. When I get something on a trade or purchase it's legally mine (even if the "Tools of the Trade" weren't) and I can do with it what I want, be it share it with others, keep it to myself, or throwing it into a garbage can and setting it on fire.

And As Fredrik said, the guy told you not to violate the copyright but he has no problem violating it himself. No offense, but that's hypocrit.

[The G Man]

Plus, if you're bragging to everyone that you have something you're not allowed to share, it comes off sounding like you're desperate for attention.

[Duck Dodgers]

Plus, if you're telling everyone you have something you're not allowed to share, it comes off sounding like you're desperate for attention.


Let's have it this way. I'll never make a post of this kind on this forum.
I did them because some moderators of this forum told me that they had nothing against such kind of posts and that they loved my blog.
I just wanted to share screenshots of a great and rare cartoons with people that probably will never have the opportunity to watch them.
And I wanted to share it with my friends collectors here in the forum.

The last thing I thought about was to be offended in such a way!!

So, if anyone wants to see screenshots of cartoons, visit my blog, period.

And Javeman, I'm sick and tired of you.
You told me that you would have ignored me on this forum, after our past "troubles".
After that, not only you made a signature that change the concept of a phrase I told you in the past ( it was: "I never said that you're stupid, only that you said a stupid thing". Intelligent people can say stupid things sometime in their life, and stupid people can say intelligent things once in a while!) but you also answered again to a post of mine.
And, guess what, is again an unfriendly one.


Please moderators, close this thread!
It is reeeaaally going off-topic.

[Sogturtle]

There's nothing wrong with sharing screenshots...

TECHNICALLY guys it is illegal to go and make endless copies of films and distribute them, even if NO money changes hands. As I understand it, U.S. copyright law permits the making of what amounts to "backup copies" of our videos for our OWN private collection (singular on the word 'collection'). In theory we can CLAIM that we maintain ownership of a copy and that it is just at a friends house. Sooooo in that regard Duck Dodger's friend is quite wise... ;) And anybody else who "shares" or "trades" needs to consider restricting further trading, IF they want to avoid the possibility of being viewed as not a collector but a pirate...:eek:

Then there's the issue of let's say Duck's friend paid $300 for a very rare and nearly perfect print... Just because he's GENEROUS and "lends" you a copy of that cartoon, why in heaven's name would you think you are entitled to distribute the thing further WITHOUT his permission and compensating him in part for what he was out money-wise...???:eek: Virtually everybody somehow thinks a "trade" gives THEM ownership, but it is STILL a copyrighted film that somebody has graciously shared with just YOU, not fifty other people.
Did you reimburse him a part of that $300?? Nooooo nobody kicks in and helps out like that...:eek::rolleyes:

Imagine it like this, just because you legally buy a brand new book does that somehow entitle you to go endlessly Xerox the thing and distribute copies of it to your friends??:rolleyes: No of course not, it's well-established that that's quite illegal. (Ditto for sheet-music etc.).

As for the major studios "repressing the workers", every last cartoon director freely signed contracts that were quite legal assigning total owership of EVERYTHING they created while at that studio... Frankly, each director was tickled pink to have a berth at a major studio!!! They could have all ended up making idiotic advertising films at some fleabag joint and been totally forgotten. Was and is copyright law wrong to assign such NOW astronomical lengths of time for the duration of copyright, cutting out the REAL authors??? Morally and ethically yes, BUUUUUT the law is the law. I'd LOVE to see profits going to Tex Avery's family every time a Bugs or Daffy or Elmer toon is shown or sold, ditto for the films of Jones, Freleng, McKimson etc. Siegel and Shuster signed away "Superman" for a pittance, but they knew that was the price of success. And the great cartoon directors knew it too.

And yes, all copies of "The Censored Eleven" are ahem "unauthorized" ('less than legal');)

[sumnernor]

Duck - I just want to say that I support your actions of this thread. It is not a matter of saying "Look what I have - you can't have it!" Your posting of screen shots is the best way to show people the cartoon without actually "playing" the cartoon. I have not looked at all your pictures this time simply because I have a slow internet and I pay by the minute. It will take some time to down load everything. Might I suggest for the future - you break up the pictures into a number of parts (say 10 pictures per part). I also agree with Sog's comments.

If you are familer with Wagner's 4 Ring operas - the giant Fafner sits on the gold in the cave keeping it from the outside world. Film companies are also sitting on many goodies and it is very frustrating that people want these things and are not able to purchase them - about the only way to get them is to "break the law" due to the Copyright laws.

Like "music titles", one should be able to purchase downloads of things like the "censored 11" or "Song of the South".

[Geezil]

Like "music titles", one should be able to purchase downloads of things like the "censored 11" or "Song of the South".

Or any of the color cartoons of Columbia, Terrytoons, UPA, Walter Lantz ... :mad:

(Gee, this could go on for hours, couldn't it?)

[Vdubdavid]

Or any of the color cartoons of Columbia, Terrytoons, UPA, Walter Lantz ... :mad:

(Gee, this could go on for hours, couldn't it?)

Not to mention cartoons from Paramount that don't feature Betty Boop or Popeye.