1946 Article on Friz Freleng

[Jaime_Weinman]

As you know, the WB cartoon directors didn't get much publicity while Termite Terrace was still around, but I found one contemporary article that did feature a LT/MM director: a 1946 article on Friz Freleng from his hometown paper, the Kansas City Star.

Here's a transcript of the article -- any spelling mistakes or factual mistakes are from the original:


Kansas City Star, August 20, 1946

FUN IN A VISITOR'S PEN

Isadore Freleng, Cartoon Creator, Returns “Home.”

A Director, for Warner Bros. Studio, the Master of Bugs Bunny, Porky Pig and Daffy Duck Renews Friendship Here.

One of a half-dozen cartoonists who left Kansas City in the early '20s to become animators and producers of pen and ink motion pictures, Isadore (Fritz [sic]) Freleng, returned to his “home town” this week for a visit.

As a director in the Warner Brothers cartoon studio, Freleng created the popular “Looney Tune” series and now controls the antics of such “Merry Melodies” characters and Bugs Bunny, Porky Pig and Daffy Duck.

When Freleng lived here at 4543 Mercier street, he attended Westport high school. Some of his cartoons appeared in school publications during his 1919 to 1923 high school career. To earn pocket money he caddied at the Kansas City Country club and recalls that one of his fellow mashie-toters was now-famous professional golfer Jug McSpaden.

“After school I worked at Armour & Co. as a visitor's guide for a while, then went out to United Film Service, Inc., at 2449 Charlotte street as an animator.”

It was here that Freleng became acquainted with Walt Disney, creator of Mickey Mouse; U.B. Iwerks, creator of “Flip the Frog”; Fred Harmon, originator of the “Red Ryder” strip; Hugh Harmon, his brother, who, with Rudy Ising, another United man, later made the “Harmon-Ising” musical cartoons.

Disney was the first of the Kansas City group to strike out for Hollywood. Later, the others followed, all becoming Disney animators. In 1931, Freleng became associated with Warner Brothers, where he has been ever since.

Another Kansas Citian in the Warner office is Carl Stalling, musical director of the animated cartoon section, who formerly played the organ at the Isis theater here.

“Bugs Bunny, the most popular character of 'Merry Melodies,' was created as a combined result of several directors and artists,” Freleng said. “I began Porky Pig in a 'bit' part in my third picture. He's jumped to stardom since.”

Musicals, of the “Rhapsody in Rivets” and “Three Pigs in a Polka” type, whre the action of the characters is timed to the exact note of some well-known piece of music instead of to a set rhythmic tempo, are a Freleng innovation.

Friends at the Warner studio term Freleng the original “worry wart” because of his pessimistic view of each new picture. The slightly-built, balding, blue-eyed man assures everyone that “this is my worst, and probably last, cartoon.” So far, the strips happily have proved Freleng wrong.

[cabe624]

I never thought that Termite Terrace got any write-ups or articles in newspapers of that time, so it's really neat to see that they did. The last paragraph of the article is very true, at least according to what his colleagues thought of him. Cool to see that they mentioned the great Carl Stalling, too.

Interesting article, Jaime. Thanks for posting it.

[Thad]

And gee! This is proof that as far back as 1946 Friz was saying Bugs "was created as a combined result of several directors and artists." What an ego! :shame:

Thanks for this, Jaime!

[rp-j]

Wow... a fascinating piece! Thanks, "Jaime_Weinman"!:D

[Mr. Semaj]

Interestingly, the article was printed the day before Freleng's 41st birthday.

[frizfrelengfan]

The article doesn't mention Friz' stop at MGM from 1937 to 1939.

[Leviathan]

And gee! This is proof that as far back as 1946 Friz was saying Bugs "was created as a combined result of several directors and artists." What an ego! :shame:

Well, In Fairness, saying otherwise right then would've probably pissed off a bunch of people and Damaged the Frizmeister's reputation.

But, yeah! Interesting article

[rodney]

At that time, the average person felt that Walt Disney drew every cel for his cartoons and also wrote and drew every comic strip panel. Friz easily could've taken credit for the creation of Bugs and other characters-as we know, it was done by many later-but he didn't, because he was a classy guy and was comfortable with his body of work.

[mmtper]

The personalities and motives and foibles of Bob Clampett and Chuck Jones are constantly being dissected & examined & re-examined slicd & diced here and on other animation boards but Friz is left pretty much alone. He seemed to have a had a less artistic temperament than the other directors; he just went about making his toons in a pretty business-like, un-quirky, assembly line manner. He could be stern & gruff but was fair & honest. The impression I've gotten was that while some animators obviously didn't get along, everyone from Leon Schlesinger on down respected Friz, not just as an animator but as a person.

Is this impression correct?

[Sogturtle]

The personalities and motives and foibles of Bob Clampett and Chuck Jones are constantly being dissected & examined & re-examined slicd & diced here and on other animation boards but Friz is left pretty much alone. He seemed to have a had a less artistic temperament than the other directors; he just went about making his toons in a pretty business-like, un-quirky, assembly line manner. He could be stern & gruff but was fair & honest. The impression I've gotten was that while some animators obviously didn't get along, everyone from Leon Schlesinger on down respected Friz, not just as an animator but as a person.

Is this impression correct?

Mmtper~

I'd say your assessment is partly correct...:) Chuck Jones is attacked and dissected mostly as a warped means of attempting to help Bob Clampett's pathetic case and to make it seem that Jones and other directors were egomaniacs... Buuuut Friz has been hammered by SOME of the extreme-Clampett-heads as well as if he was some kind of hack...:eek: I've said it before, Chuck Jones idolized both Tex Avery and Friz Freleng... Do these people REALLY think they can judge who was a master-director better than Jones?!?!

Artistic temperment?? Friz WAS the one who walked out on Eddie Selzer and the studio when Selzer tried to dictate that he use a woodpecker instead of Tweety in "Tweety Pie". Neither Jones nor Clampett nor McKimson ever walked out...:eek:

Fair and honest? Yeah... But with very high standards/expectations... Does some of the animation in his cartoons not meet OUR unique standards? Maybe, but Friz found and kept animators who were good and could do what he wanted, key ingredient being strong personality/character animation. Did he WANT a wild-animating Rod Scribner? Noooo obviously not or else he would've kept him in 1939 rather than letting him go to Tex. Did he want to have Bob McKimson back in his unit? Nooooo, he just termed McKimson a "good" animator (but his terming anyone "good" was indeed a major compliment). Did he have a real temper? By all reports yes he did, and he freely went along with the story of Yosemite Sam being based on him (and his temper). "Assembly line-manner", smacks of considering him a hack director... And yet his peers (as well as Schlesinger) thought highly of him, and audiences loved his cartoons.

[rodney]

Someone elsewhere asked this question.........taking WB directors out of the equation, who was a better director than Friz? Shamus Culhane? Dick Lundy? Jack Hannah? Jack King?

It's a good question and one that bears some serious thought. The answer, of course, is that Friz was one of the top directors of his time, and as far as we commonly know, a fair and honest guy to boot.

[J Lee]

The thing Friz gets put down for by some people is his lack of innovation, in the sense that while he saved Leon's bacon when he returned to the studio in 1933, he wasn't the leader in pushing the envelope in the development of the house style, in the way that Avery, Tashlin and Clampett were. But Friz (and Tex) really were the first ones in 1940 to merge the WB gag style with the more coherent story lines that made the studio's cartoons over the next 20 years so sucessful.

(The other thing to note is that in 1946, Friz could have felt safer giving a self-serving interview to the Kansas City Star than someone could today, since news in a K.C. paper was unlikely to make it 1,500 miles to Los Angeles very easily, unless one of the family members of the other people in the Kansas City animation alumni sent it out there. The fact that what he said in 1946 was the same as he would tell interviewers 40 years later says something about the integrity of Freleng's other statements over the years.)

[J. J. Hunsecker]

The personalities and motives and foibles of Bob Clampett and Chuck Jones are constantly being dissected & examined & re-examined slicd & diced here and on other animation boards but Friz is left pretty much alone. He seemed to have a had a less artistic temperament than the other directors; he just went about making his toons in a pretty business-like, un-quirky, assembly line manner. He could be stern & gruff but was fair & honest. The impression I've gotten was that while some animators obviously didn't get along, everyone from Leon Schlesinger on down respected Friz, not just as an animator but as a person.

Is this impression correct?
One of Freleng's animator's, Manny Perez, hated Freleng. He said that he was Freleng's "whipping boy" and that he grew to "hate the little guy." (I believe it was Perez who said this, but I'm going from my memory of reading a Greg Duffell post and an interview with Virgil Ross, so I might have gotten the name mixed up with another of Freleng's animators.)

Also, when Jones and Clampett were given to Tex Avery as animators, Avery said that Schlesinger told him that the two animators, while not rebels, didn't get along with the other two units at the studio. I believe Freleng was in charge of one of the units. If so, that meant that Jones and Clampett did not like animating for Freleng.

[Thad]

I'm told by a friend that Manny Perez's comic book art "looks better than ANYTHING in a Freleng cartoon" so maybe his style was limited by Freleng?

[Jaime_Weinman]

One of Freleng's animator's, Manny Perez, hated Freleng. He said that he was Freleng's "whipping boy" and that he grew to "hate the little guy."

I recall Greg Duffell saying that too, but Perez stayed with Freleng a long time (he was away briefly in 1950 or so, and even animated on one cartoon for McKimson before returing to the Freleng unit, but basically he was with Freleng up until the 3-D shutdown). This isn't like Melendez with McKimson, where the animator literally couldn't wait to get away to another unit or another studio.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Mmtper~

I'd say your assessment is partly correct...:) Chuck Jones is attacked and dissected mostly as a warped means of attempting to help Bob Clampett's pathetic case and to make it seem that Jones and other directors were egomaniacs... Buuuut Friz has been hammered by SOME of the extreme-Clampett-heads as well as if he was some kind of hack...:eek: I've said it before, Chuck Jones idolized both Tex Avery and Friz Freleng... Do these people REALLY think they can judge who was a master-director better than Jones?!?!

Artistic temperment?? Friz WAS the one who walked out on Eddie Selzer and the studio when Selzer tried to dictate that he use a woodpecker instead of Tweety in "Tweety Pie". Neither Jones nor Clampett nor McKimson ever walked out...:eek:

Fair and honest? Yeah... But with very high standards/expectations... Does some of the animation in his cartoons not meet OUR unique standards? Maybe, but Friz found and kept animators who were good and could do what he wanted, key ingredient being strong personality/character animation. Did he WANT a wild-animating Rod Scribner? Noooo obviously not or else he would've kept him in 1939 rather than letting him go to Tex. Did he want to have Bob McKimson back in his unit? Nooooo, he just termed McKimson a "good" animator (but his terming anyone "good" was indeed a major compliment). Did he have a real temper? By all reports yes he did, and he freely went along with the story of Yosemite Sam being based on him (and his temper). "Assembly line-manner", smacks of considering him a hack director... And yet his peers (as well as Schlesinger) thought highly of him, and audiences loved his cartoons.
Your first statement is not true. Plenty of Jones' cohorts describe him as a cold and vindictive person (usually in "off-the-record" statements to up and coming animators. These stories get passed around in the business). Some of the artists who worked for Jones enjoyed the creative freedom he gave them, but they were also puzzled by his aloof treatment of them (such as never once inviting them to lunch with him). Jones could also be intellectually snobbish. Jones had also made many caustic remarks about several artists in the animation business.

"I've said it before, Chuck Jones idolized both Tex Avery and Friz Freleng..."

Jones, in his memoirs, was critical of several of Avery's cartoons. He also apparently didn't like animating for Freleng, according to Schlesinger's remarks to Avery when Avery was given Clampett and Jones as animators.

But that's enough about Jones now.

About Freleng's artistic temperment -- Freleng did on occasion take chances and made some unique cartoons like "You Ought To Be In Pictures", but for the most part he was far more cautious than the other directors (except maybe McKimson). Mike Maltese has stated in interviews that he enjoyed greater creative freedom working for Jones than he did under Freleng.

Regarding Freleng high standards -- Gerry Chiniquy was Freleng's favorite animator. (Personally, I think Art Davis was Freleng's best animator.) Chiniquy's animation is very "herky jerky" and more limited than the other animators at the studio, or even within Freleng's own unit. Freleng didn't like exaggerated animation, and thought that the animation in Avery's MGM cartoons, with their wild "takes", destroyed the believability of the characters. With that mindset it's easy to understand why he wouldn't want an animator of Scribner's talents.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

I recall Greg Duffell saying that too, but Perez stayed with Freleng a long time (he was away briefly in 1950 or so, and even animated on one cartoon for McKimson before returing to the Freleng unit, but basically he was with Freleng up until the 3-D shutdown). This isn't like Melendez with McKimson, where the animator literally couldn't wait to get away to another unit or another studio.
Who knows why he stayed as long as he did. It could have been job security or maybe he just wasn't bold enough to make demands or strike out on his own. I can only go by what he said to Greg Duffell, and what was backed up by the Virgil Ross interview.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Someone elsewhere asked this question.........taking WB directors out of the equation, who was a better director than Friz? Shamus Culhane? Dick Lundy? Jack Hannah? Jack King?

It's a good question and one that bears some serious thought. The answer, of course, is that Friz was one of the top directors of his time, and as far as we commonly know, a fair and honest guy to boot.
That's difficult to gauge, since Culhane, Lundy and Hannah never directed at Warners. If say, Culhane got to direct a few Bugs Bunny cartoons, who knows, maybe they would have been better than Freleng's cartoons.

But the fact is that Culhane was stuck with Ben Hardaway as a writer, and the low budgets at the Lantz studio. Hannah directed some funny Disney cartoons, but how much creative freedom did he really have at Disney's?

Lundy does seem to prefer the slower pace and gentler humor of the Disney cartoons, so I would place Freleng above him. (But Lundy's cartoons have better animation.) King did work at Warner's and his cartoons there were some of the weakest. I would say Freleng definitely trumps King.

[J Lee]

Also, when Jones and Clampett were given to Tex Avery as animators, Avery said that Schlesinger told him that the two animators, while not rebels, didn't get along with the other two units at the studio. I believe Freleng was in charge of one of the units. If so, that meant that Jones and Clampett did not like animating for Freleng.

Clampett and Jones had animation credit on "Buddy Steps Out" just prior to Avery's arrival, so we can assume they were coming to Tex from Jack King's unit when Leon made his remark to Avery (and anyone who's seen "Buddy Steps Out" would know instantly why anyone with an ounce of creativity would be gnawing their paws off to be out of the steel trap of any unit that came up with that cartoon).

Chuck and Bob may have also had a problem with Friz's desire for control over what his animators were doing, but Clampett also bugged out of Avery's unit for his failed MGM venture, so how much of the "don't get along" complaint was due to Freleng's actions and how much was due to the desire of Bob (and Chuck) to have their own units is open to conjecture.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Clampett and Jones had animation credit on "Buddy Steps Out" just prior to Avery's arrival, so we can assume they were coming to Tex from Jack King's unit when Leon made his remark to Avery (and anyone who's seen "Buddy Steps Out" would know instantly why anyone with an ounce of creativity would be gnawing their paws off to be out of the steel trap of any unit that came up with that cartoon).

Chuck and Bob may have also had a problem with Friz's desire for control over what his animators were doing, but Clampett also bugged out of Avery's unit for his failed MGM venture, so how much of the "don't get along" complaint was due to Freleng's actions and how much was due to the desire of Bob (and Chuck) to have their own units is open to conjecture.
Avery said that Schlesinger told him that Jones and Clampett didn't get along with the other two units. King and Freleng were the only two directors at that time.

Freleng also directed some of the Buddy cartoons, but by the time Avery showed up Friz was the sole director of the color Merrie Melodies. In fact I think Buddy was gone by a few years when Tex arrived on the scene.

Clampett left Avery's unit because he wanted to be a director of his own cartoons, not because he disliked working for Avery. Clampett always spoke highly of Avery because Avery gave him creative lincense with his animation. Tex was also open to ideas from his crew, in a way that Clampett felt Freleng wasn't.

[Thad]

I believe I made Rodney's point at some time. I really wouldn't rank any other non-WB director (exception of Bill and Joe) above Freleng.
The other directors had bigger hit-and-miss rankings than Freleng, and their hits were nowhere near Friz's peaks and their misses made Freleng's misses look like masterpieces.

If we saw a Shamus Culhane Bugs Bunny, it would probably be a clone of Clampett's rabbit, just not done nearly as well (and I'm not a huge fan of Clampett's Bugs anyway, so that's saying something).

Dick Lundy was a great director too, but his work was a lot more tame than Freleng's material. When his Woody Woodpecker cartoons are good, they are GOOD, but when they are bad, they are just Donald Duck cartoons, which do not benefit Woody's character at all (see "The Coo-Coo Bird" and "Solid Ivory").

Jack Hannah's best shorts were in the early 1950s when Walt was busy with Disneyland and he seemed to be channeling his old co-worker Carl Barks' spirit. I really wish Barks was around as a storyman at that time so his talent would go towards a decent director. All Hannah got thrown for most of his Disney tenure was Spike the Bee. (And while Hannah's Lantz work is quite good, none are masterpieces, and are quite tame by the studio's standards.)

No comment on Jack King.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

If we saw a Shamus Culhane Bugs Bunny, it would probably be a clone of Clampett's rabbit, just not done nearly as well (and I'm not a huge fan of Clampett's Bugs anyway, so that's saying something).

What makes you say that? We don't know what a Culhane Bugs cartoon would have been like because there is nothing to base it on. Perhaps it would have been similar to the BB cartoons Culhane's friend Tashlin directed. Or maybe it would have been more like a Jones cartoon. After all, Culhane animated for him and might have learned about the character from Jones if he were set to direct at Schlesingers. Maybe if Culhane directed a Daffy cartoon it would have been similar in flavor to his Woody cartoons. But it's all just a game of "what if..."

[Thad]

What makes you say that? We don't know what a Culhane Bugs cartoon would have been like because there is nothing to base it on. Perhaps it would have been similar to the BB cartoons Culhane's friend Tashlin directed. Or maybe it would have been more like a Jones cartoon. After all, Culhane animated for him and might have learned about the character from Jones if he were set to direct at Schlesingers. Maybe if Culhane directed a Daffy cartoon it would have been similar in flavor to his Woody cartoons. But it's all just a game of "what if..."

I'm just assuming that a Culhane Bugs might be more along the lines of a Woody Woodpecker character since that's the type of humor Culhane usually favored at Lantz. His Andy Panda is pretty morbid too if he's not above rigging his dog up to a gun.

[Sogturtle]

Chuck Jones is attacked and dissected mostly as a warped means of attempting to help Bob Clampett's pathetic case and to make it seem that Jones and other directors were egomaniacs... Buuuut Friz has been hammered by SOME of the extreme-Clampett-heads as well as if he was some kind of hack...:eek: I've said it before, Chuck Jones idolized both Tex Avery and Friz Freleng... Do these people REALLY think they can judge who was a master-director better than Jones?!?!

Artistic temperment?? Friz WAS the one who walked out on Eddie Selzer and the studio when Selzer tried to dictate that he use a woodpecker instead of Tweety in "Tweety Pie". Neither Jones nor Clampett nor McKimson ever walked out...:eek:

Fair and honest? Yeah... But with very high standards/expectations... Does some of the animation in his cartoons not meet OUR unique standards? Maybe, but Friz found and kept animators who were good and could do what he wanted, key ingredient being strong personality/character animation. Did he WANT a wild-animating Rod Scribner? Noooo obviously not or else he would've kept him in 1939 rather than letting him go to Tex. Did he want to have Bob McKimson back in his unit? Nooooo, he just termed McKimson a "good" animator (but his terming anyone "good" was indeed a major compliment). Did he have a real temper? By all reports yes he did, and he freely went along with the story of Yosemite Sam being based on him (and his temper). "Assembly line-manner", smacks of considering him a hack director... And yet his peers (as well as Schlesinger) thought highly of him, and audiences loved his cartoons.

Your first statement is not true. Plenty of Jones' cohorts describe him as a cold and vindictive person (usually in "off-the-record" statements to up and coming animators. These stories get passed around in the business). Some of the artists who worked for Jones enjoyed the creative freedom he gave them, but they were also puzzled by his aloof treatment of them (such as never once inviting them to lunch with him). Jones could also be intellectually snobbish. Jones had also made many caustic remarks about several artists in the animation business.

"I've said it before, Chuck Jones idolized both Tex Avery and Friz Freleng..."

Jones, in his memoirs, was critical of several of Avery's cartoons. He also apparently didn't like animating for Freleng, according to Schlesinger's remarks to Avery when Avery was given Clampett and Jones as animators.

But that's enough about Jones now.

About Freleng's artistic temperment -- Freleng did on occasion take chances and made some unique cartoons like "You Ought To Be In Pictures", but for the most part he was far more cautious than the other directors (except maybe McKimson). Mike Maltese has stated in interviews that he enjoyed greater creative freedom working for Jones than he did under Freleng.

Regarding Freleng high standards -- Gerry Chiniquy was Freleng's favorite animator. (Personally, I think Art Davis was Freleng's best animator.) Chiniquy's animation is very "herky jerky" and more limited than the other animators at the studio, or even within Freleng's own unit. Freleng didn't like exaggerated animation, and thought that the animation in Avery's MGM cartoons, with their wild "takes", destroyed the believability of the characters. With that mindset it's easy to understand why he wouldn't want an animator of Scribner's talents.

J.J.~
Actually my "first statement" was right on the money... And you (very nicely;)) proved it for me by immediately and predictably launching into yet another anti-Jones spiel...:D J.J., don't you EVER stop and realize that the stuff you guys TRY to dredge up about Jones ranks as the strangest sort of gossip?!?!?:eek: And nothing but gossip...

Why for the love of Pete would ANY adult still care FORTY YEARS later whether or not their boss did or didn't ever take them to lunch back in 1947???:eek: Are you saying that animators are THAT immature and childishly small-minded?:confused: That's pretty funny considering that every one of Chuck's former foursome of animators would happily go back to work animating for him in the Sixties and Seventies... [Guess they found someone else to buy them that lunch huh?:p]. As for the notion that the animators remarks were "off the record", suuuuure they were, it's always convenient to CLAIM that "old so-and-so once told a friend of a friend this or that about YOU KNOW WHO". THAT is what would be known as hearsay evidence and promptly thrown out of any court it was submitted to...

Before you go any further trying to say that Jones somehow libelled Tex or Friz you need to be apprised of the fact that Chuck wrote adultory heartfelt tributes about both men back in the late Seventies/early Eighties. And of course someone can express criticism of a mentor's individual works, artists and writers can see DIFFERENT ways that THEY would have done something. And you bet Jones (and Clampett) didn't want to go on animating for Friz (or Jack King) in 1935... They were already WANTING to be given their own unit, even though they'd only been animators for a year. Sooooo being stuck animating in the "pool system" that prevailed at that moment was not to their liking.

Regarding Gerry Chiniquy being Friz's "favorite animator" and how THAT relates to Freleng's high standards... That supposed designation was rooted almost entirely in Friz's belief, that with Chiniquy's musical background that he was a superb dance animator. And dances were important parts of Freleng's cartoons. And (as the story goes) Virgil Ross was hurt over never being given any dances to animate... But the REALLY important stuff, the character animation, in so many Freleng cartoons goes to Virgil Ross, while so much of the important action goes to Art Davis.

As to WHY Friz didn't want Rod Scribner (or Bob McKimson) as his animators in the 1940's, it really comes down to this... He didn't feel that they were necessary to his style of cartoons. [And who knows, maybe Rod toppled a phone-booth that Friz was in too!:daffy:].

And yeah, like Thad, aside from the other Warner directors and Tex and Hanna-Barbera (at MGM) there were just flat-out NO directors who could EVEN START to compare to Friz Freleng!:)

[Though it is FASCINATING to speculate on what would have happened if Shamus Culhane HAD bided his time and not blown up at Leon Schlesinger... With his previous directing experiences and Schlesinger's promise to direct, Culhane would have been near the head of the line of prospective directors when Tashlin quit. Like it or not, I'd suspect that Warner cartoons by Shamus would've come out a lot like the early McKimson ones:cool:].

[rodney]

What makes you say that? We don't know what a Culhane Bugs cartoon would have been like because there is nothing to base it on. Perhaps it would have been similar to the BB cartoons Culhane's friend Tashlin directed. Or maybe it would have been more like a Jones cartoon. After all, Culhane animated for him and might have learned about the character from Jones if he were set to direct at Schlesingers. Maybe if Culhane directed a Daffy cartoon it would have been similar in flavor to his Woody cartoons. But it's all just a game of "what if..."

I agree that it's hard to say for sure, but his biography is pretty clear about what kind of cartoons he liked to make in the mid 40's.

[J Lee]

Shamus was more of an unbanite/sophistacte, at least as far as the world of cartoons goes, while Bob seemed to have more of a rural sensability (which irocially is more in line with the ideas of Culhane's former employer, Mr. Disney). My guess is if he had gotten Tashlin's post his shorts would have hewed closer to the Art Davis style than what Bob would do (on the other hand, if Culhane had gotten Clampett's unit instead of Davis, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened with him working with storymen Bill Scott and Lloyd Turner).

[Sogturtle]

Shamus was more of an unbanite/sophistacte, at least as far as the world of cartoons goes, while Bob seemed to have more of a rural sensability (which irocially is more in line with the ideas of Culhane's former employer, Mr. Disney). My guess is if he had gotten Tashlin's post his shorts would have hewed closer to the Art Davis style than what Bob would do (on the other hand, if Culhane had gotten Clampett's unit instead of Davis, it would have been interesting to see what would have happened with him working with storymen Bill Scott and Lloyd Turner).

John~

Yeah I agree based on Culhane's autobiography that he wanted very much to be a sophisticate... And nooooo I couldn't ever see Shamus creating or helping create characters like McKimson's Foghorn Leghorn (the prime candidate for full "rural" status;). I GUESS we could consider the Tasmanian Devil "rural" as well since he lives in the jungle:D:p)...

But on the other hand I don't THINK, that despite his talents, that Shamus created characters at all, anywhere he went (not at Fleischer, not at Iwerks, not at Van Beuren, not at Lantz). What's intriguing in this whole premise is that at Lantz, Culhane had Ben Hardaway as storyman, a Kansas City-ite, basically a small-town "rural" guy... Yet he expunged Hardaway's country (and loud) humor from the Lantz cartoons wherever he could... Whereas ifffff he'd have been in McKimson's stead then he'd have been paired up (most likely) with fellow New Yorker Warren Foster, which LOGICALLY would have produced urban-centric, quasi-sophisticated cartoons... But yet Foster (and Tedd Pierce) were the very guys who helped write (or wrote) McKimson's country-oriented cartoons...:eek: Soooo I think it might have been a toss-up as far as content.

(My real point was that I thought that Shamus would've utilized the Warner animators in much the same way that McKimson did early on.:))

[J Lee]

John~

Yeah I agree based on Culhane's autobiography that he wanted very much to be a sophisticate... And nooooo I couldn't ever see Shamus creating or helping create characters like McKimson's Foghorn Leghorn (the prime candidate for full "rural" status;). I GUESS we could consider the Tasmanian Devil "rural" as well since he lives in the jungle:D:p)...

But on the other hand I don't THINK, that despite his talents, that Shamus created characters at all, anywhere he went (not at Fleischer, not at Iwerks, not at Van Beuren, not at Lantz). What's intriguing in this whole premise is that at Lantz, Culhane had Ben Hardaway as storyman, a Kansas City-ite, basically a small-town "rural" guy... Yet he expunged Hardaway's country (and loud) humor from the Lantz cartoons wherever he could... Whereas ifffff he'd have been in McKimson's stead then he'd have been paired up (most likely) with fellow New Yorker Warren Foster, which LOGICALLY would have produced urban-centric, quasi-sophisticated cartoons... But yet Foster (and Tedd Pierce) were the very guys who helped write (or wrote) McKimson's country-oriented cartoons...:eek: Soooo I think it might have been a toss-up as far as content.

(My real point was that I thought that Shamus would've utilized the Warner animators in much the same way that McKimson did early on.:))


Tim, you're probably right that a Culhane unit would have be more controlled in the McKimson style than what Davis' unit was, given the control Shamus tried to exhert over his crew at Fleischers. I was thinking more in term of story than design, and there, I think he would have veered more in Artie's direction (given his desire for pantomime shorts, he might have done something exatly like one of Davis' first cartoons, "The Foxy Duckling" which plays out as a more vicious version of one of Chuck Jones' limited dialogue shorts).

[J. J. Hunsecker]

J.J.~
Actually my "first statement" was right on the money... And you (very nicely;)) proved it for me by immediately and predictably launching into yet another anti-Jones spiel...:D J.J., don't you EVER stop and realize that the stuff you guys TRY to dredge up about Jones ranks as the strangest sort of gossip?!?!?:eek: And nothing but gossip...

Why for the love of Pete would ANY adult still care FORTY YEARS later whether or not their boss did or didn't ever take them to lunch back in 1947???:eek: Are you saying that animators are THAT immature and childishly small-minded?:confused: That's pretty funny considering that every one of Chuck's former foursome of animators would happily go back to work animating for him in the Sixties and Seventies... [Guess they found someone else to buy them that lunch huh?:p]. As for the notion that the animators remarks were "off the record", suuuuure they were, it's always convenient to CLAIM that "old so-and-so once told a friend of a friend this or that about YOU KNOW WHO". THAT is what would be known as hearsay evidence and promptly thrown out of any court it was submitted to...

Before you go any further trying to say that Jones somehow libelled Tex or Friz you need to be apprised of the fact that Chuck wrote adultory heartfelt tributes about both men back in the late Seventies/early Eighties. And of course someone can express criticism of a mentor's individual works, artists and writers can see DIFFERENT ways that THEY would have done something. And you bet Jones (and Clampett) didn't want to go on animating for Friz (or Jack King) in 1935... They were already WANTING to be given their own unit, even though they'd only been animators for a year. Sooooo being stuck animating in the "pool system" that prevailed at that moment was not to their liking.

Regarding Gerry Chiniquy being Friz's "favorite animator" and how THAT relates to Freleng's high standards... That supposed designation was rooted almost entirely in Friz's belief, that with Chiniquy's musical background that he was a superb dance animator. And dances were important parts of Freleng's cartoons. And (as the story goes) Virgil Ross was hurt over never being given any dances to animate... But the REALLY important stuff, the character animation, in so many Freleng cartoons goes to Virgil Ross, while so much of the important action goes to Art Davis.

As to WHY Friz didn't want Rod Scribner (or Bob McKimson) as his animators in the 1940's, it really comes down to this... He didn't feel that they were necessary to his style of cartoons. [And who knows, maybe Rod toppled a phone-booth that Friz was in too!:daffy:].

And yeah, like Thad, aside from the other Warner directors and Tex and Hanna-Barbera (at MGM) there were just flat-out NO directors who could EVEN START to compare to Friz Freleng!:)

[Though it is FASCINATING to speculate on what would have happened if Shamus Culhane HAD bided his time and not blown up at Leon Schlesinger... With his previous directing experiences and Schlesinger's promise to direct, Culhane would have been near the head of the line of prospective directors when Tashlin quit. Like it or not, I'd suspect that Warner cartoons by Shamus would've come out a lot like the early McKimson ones:cool:].

I don't know why some of Jones' former employees would feel hurt by Jones' lack of invitations to lunch, but they did. That's all I know. (It wasn't his animators who said this, but a certain background layout artist and storyman.) I heard the layout artist say this, unprovoked, to a group of neophyte artists that I was with. There's your "off-the-record" moment. He certainly didn't think his casual comments would be online a number of years later.

The artists who worked for Jones probably did so because he gave them a certain amount of creative freedom, which they might not have gotten from the other two directors at that time. Also, people sometimes put their careers before their hurt feelings, too.

As for the gossip about Jones, I've met plenty of artists who met him and some even worked with him in his later years. They respected him as an artists and loved his cartoons, they just didn't like the man himself. There was a uniform opinion among them that Jones could be haughty and peevish, and for the smallest of reasons.

I never wrote that Jones "libeled" Avery or Freleng, just that he was critical of some of their work. He could also be very sentimental, as anyone who's read his memoirs can attest. And viewing the past through a rose colored haze can cause one to be a little biased in places. Besides, Jones isn't the defacto authority of who were the best directors at Warners. (He always stated that the golden age of Looney Tunes was from 1948 to 1962, which would exclude the best work of Clampett, Tashlin, and Freleng! In actuality, 1948-1962 represents the golden age of Chuck Jones as most of his ealier cartoons aren't as good.)

[cpdavison]

Didn't Jimmy-boy stalk out of the Termite Terrace employ because Leon broke his promise about letting Culhane direct Army training films?

As much as I would've loved to see Culhane-directed WB cartoons, it sounds as if it was never in the cards from the get-go. :(

IIRC, Shamus has nothing but great things to say about Jones & co. I think he even stressed that it was a great lesson in hubris & humility.

Craiggy-boy

[Sogturtle]

Didn't Jimmy-boy stalk out of the Termite Terrace employ because Leon broke his promise about letting Culhane direct Army training films?

As much as I would've loved to see Culhane-directed WB cartoons, it sounds as if it was never in the cards from the get-go. :(

IIRC, Shamus has nothing but great things to say about Jones & co. I think he even stressed that it was a great lesson in hubris & humility.

Craiggy-boy

[i]Craiggy-boy;)~

Yep, you're darned right that was Jimmy (Shamus) Culhane's reason for blowing up in Leon's face and stalking out (and over to Lantz's).

My PERSONAL belief about Leon's reason for breaking his promise to Culhane relates to money and personell and the government... Could he REALLY afford to set up and run a FIFTH directorial unit ??? And then maintain it AFTER the government contract ran out??? And lastly, WHO would he have gotten to animate for it??? But the REAL TRUTH is that (at least on the Private Snafu cartoons) the U.S. government had insisted that Schlesinger ONLY use FULL-FLEDGED directors to make the films, NOT temporary directors (i.e. animators)... With that in mind, Leon's hands were tied as Shamus was then just an animator. [I should add that Culhane almost certainly animated some on the Snafu cartoons as he had group of Snafu drawings in his possession... time for some analysis of animation in those toons guys!;)].

And you're EXTREMELY right that "Jimmy-boy" had NOTHING but good things to say about Jones & co... He had even said that back in 1929-30 that while at the Harrison & Gould Mintz studio that he observed that "Freleng...was a far better animator than anyone else in the studio":eek: (Hmmmm... Let's see, so the 1929 Friz was a BETTER animator than Manny Gould:eek:, Art Davis:eek:, or Sid Marcus!!). I think the argument that Friz was a poor animator/artist was just lost once and for all:D;).
Annnnnd Shamus said this about the entire Schlesinger directorial staff... "Aside from Jones, Warners had Friz Freleng, Frank Tashlin, Bob Clampett, and Norman McCabe, all talented directors".

.:D:daffy::bugs2:

[cpdavison]

[I would LOVE to know WHY Culhane would list the directors in THAT order (Jones, Freleng, Tashlin, Clampett, McCabe). It AIN'T alphabetical!!].

Soggy, are you saying McCabe got the short end of the stick? ;)

It's "almost" on-topic, so I'll stick this anecdote here. Back in 1980, I was at a Q&A with Friz, and I sure wish I had a tape running, because the exact wording was funnier than way I'll be telling it. Anyway, here is the paraphrased version:

Friz: Well, there's not much of the original animation art left. In fact, we just got rid of all the Pink Panther artwork recently.

AUDIENCE: (Soul-In-Torment Groan)

Friz: (Cartoonish look of genuine amazment) What? It's OK, we photographed them all before we threw them out. You know, when we made the cartoons. Really, most of that stuff was just a cel with an eye on it or something.

The whole story, however, must be regarded as apochryphal until said transcript can be produced. FWIW...

Craig D.