A small rant...

[Matthew Hunter]

Hello everyone out there in GAC land! Sorry I haven't been posting a whole lot lately, I've just been busy...but I do read most everything!

I wanted to make a few observations, and I know a lot of you will disagree with me. You are welcome to disagree. But here goes:

I'm tired of reading about the same old topics over and over again. Even if a new and interesting topic arises, it devolves into another argument over the same old stuff. So there are a few points I'd like to make about why I like the TTTP in the first place, and why I think it's been disappointing me lately!

One, this is a forum about classic animation, not crappy modern-day John Kricfalusi animation. There are plenty of other places to talk about John K. and his work. Personally, I think he is a pompous jerk with great ideas that he will not, or can not put into action. I don't associate him with the cartoons I enjoy, and I think discussion of his work should be kept to a minimum.

Two, enough with the director bashing! This month seems to be the anti-Bob Clampett convention, before that we had the Chuck Jones Haters Society, and I've seen plenty of bad things said about Robert McKimson and Friz Freleng. It's interesting to know what people were like in person, and it's probably true that Bob Clampett embellished his stories and outright lied about stuff. But in case you haven't noticed, he's dead, and his cartoons are still great regardless of his moral character. We need to get back to judging cartoons themselves and talking about those. We've beaten a dead horse on some of this biographical history stuff.

Three, everyone should be allowed to have their opinions and defend them politely and intelligently when asked to do so. Nobody should be ashamed to like things others don't. For example, I like a lot of cartoons that many would consider "bad", and don't like some cartoons everyone else thinks are "great". I don't like watching people get cut down for their tastes...that's not what we're here for. If anything we're here to expand each others' horizons about animation, not narrow them.

Above all, lighten up and have a little fun! Talk about stuff you like, and don't be afraid to go beyond your comfort zone now and then and learn something new! That, ah say, that's why we're here!

Th-th-th-th-that's all folks!

-Matthew

[rodney]

Matthew, I agree with your ideas that the board should be a happier place, but don't you agree that from time to time, these subjects to be addressed? I mean, people here discuss the same subjects over and over frequently, why should the controversial subjects (such as the recent director adulation thread) be different?

I guess I like the idea of us getting along, but at the same time, I'm not a big fan of being told what subjects are taboo or not........

[Tom Stathes]

Well said, Matthew. A classic cartoon forum should have discussions encompassing works from 1900-1960s (non-television) and such. While I think we should by all means mention what we like or dislike, if it's in that category; it or its creators do not deserved to be bashed. I have watched our community evolve several times. We've had stages like the Kiddie Kartoon Groupies invading the forums, and we've also seen intellectual historical annotations be commonplace. For the sake of knowledge and respectability, let's try to practice the latter more often.
-Tom

[Matthew Hunter]

Matthew, I agree with your ideas that the board should be a happier place, but don't you agree that from time to time, these subjects to be addressed? I mean, people here discuss the same subjects over and over frequently, why should the controversial subjects (such as the recent director adulation thread) be different?

I guess I like the idea of us getting along, but at the same time, I'm not a big fan of being told what subjects are taboo or not........

I'm not trying to tell people what to say. I'm just suggesting that maybe we've overdone it on a few subjects and it's time to move on! :sylvester

[Jack G.]

Umm....

I vowed not to talk about that animator you've mentioned because he seems to really upset people here. I think he has great animating skills, but his taste in humor and opinions I don't really share. (That's the last I'm going to speak on this subject.;) )

As for discussing animators of the past, I'd like to think we could objectively discuss them - both their stregnths and faults without people getting upset. I love Friz Freleng cartoons for instance, be he does have certain weakness' (in my humble opinion). All of the other directors do as well. That doesn't mean they "suck". Pointing out what you or I see as a weakness in an animator/director shouldn't nessasarily be interpeted as "bashing".

Cartoons aren't a life and death topic like war. We should be able to discuss, have fun, learn a thing or two, and politely disagree with each other.:)

[Thad]

Overdone threads? You mean things like "So is Aqua Duck a hit or miss guys?" I'd like to think of this place a little more intelligent than that.

Matthew, I'm in a bit of agreement with Rodney here. I don't recall seeing frequent anti-Clampett threads, just one that got in the 'hot topic' sector.

And like it or not, the HISTORY of Clampett's legacy and John Kricfalusi come hand in hand, due to his adultation and further embellishment of the man.

[frogboxer]

everyone should be allowed to have their opinions and defend them politely and intelligently

I think that's a key point you make, Matthew.

You know, last I checked there aren't THAT many truly devoted fans of classic animation like us out there. After all, bits of trivia like Porky Pig's first cartoon being "I Haven't Got a Hat" aren't exactly common knowledge to the rest of the world, but they are around here. But I digress ...

I think it's important that we try to stick together to keep things like these message boards going so that we can help further interest in classic animation (hey, who knows - maybe Porky's first cartoon will one day be common knowledge). Now I'm not saying we all have to just look passed eached other's differences and be best friends. We can disagree with each other - heck, we can even disLIKE each other. But, we can express our differing opinions politely and intelligently as Matthew suggests. I think debates are good and often lead to very interesting exchanges of information. But there's a BIG difference between a debate and a fight.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Matthew,

I also think it's okay to rehash these same hot topics. They'll never get solved, but so what? It's what makes these boards interesting.

Plus, I'm all for debating the various merits and faults of the WB cartoon directors. That studio was the most auteurish (I'm not even sure if that's a word) of all the cartoon production houses during the goldenage, so naturally the strength and weaknesses of each director is magnified there. Is there any real differences between David Hand or Ben Sharpsteen at Disneys? Does anybody get into shouting matches over those directors?

But I can understand how you feel. I only check out the boards here once in a while, so a lot of the topics are new to me. If I were a moderator for a number of years here I might feel differently, too.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Overdone threads? You mean things like "So is Aqua Duck a hit or miss guys?" I'd like to think of this place a little more intelligent than that.

Matthew, I'm in a bit of agreement with Rodney here. I don't recall seeing frequent anti-Clampett threads, just one that got in the 'hot topic' sector.

And like it or not, the HISTORY of Clampett's legacy and John Kricfalusi come hand in hand, due to his adultation and further embellishment of the man.
Thad,
You don't recall seeing frequent anti-Clampett threads? I guess you haven't been reading Sogturtles replies of the past several years.

I think one could easily ignore Kricfalusi in one's discussion of Clampett and his career.

And "Aqua Duck" is DEFINITELY A HIT!

[Dell Comics Fan]

Hello everyone out there in GAC land! Sorry I haven't been posting a whole lot lately, I've just been busy...but I do read most everything!

I wanted to make a few observations, and I know a lot of you will disagree with me. You are welcome to disagree. But here goes:

I'm tired of reading about the same old topics over and over again. Even if a new and interesting topic arises, it devolves into another argument over the same old stuff. So there are a few points I'd like to make about why I like the TTTP in the first place, and why I think it's been disappointing me lately!

One, this is a forum about classic animation, not crappy modern-day John Kricfalusi animation. There are plenty of other places to talk about John K. and his work. Personally, I think he is a pompous jerk with great ideas that he will not, or can not put into action. I don't associate him with the cartoons I enjoy, and I think discussion of his work should be kept to a minimum.

Two, enough with the director bashing! This month seems to be the anti-Bob Clampett convention, before that we had the Chuck Jones Haters Society, and I've seen plenty of bad things said about Robert McKimson and Friz Freleng. It's interesting to know what people were like in person, and it's probably true that Bob Clampett embellished his stories and outright lied about stuff. But in case you haven't noticed, he's dead, and his cartoons are still great regardless of his moral character. We need to get back to judging cartoons themselves and talking about those. We've beaten a dead horse on some of this biographical history stuff.

Three, everyone should be allowed to have their opinions and defend them politely and intelligently when asked to do so. Nobody should be ashamed to like things others don't. For example, I like a lot of cartoons that many would consider "bad", and don't like some cartoons everyone else thinks are "great". I don't like watching people get cut down for their tastes...that's not what we're here for. If anything we're here to expand each others' horizons about animation, not narrow them.

Above all, lighten up and have a little fun! Talk about stuff you like, and don't be afraid to go beyond your comfort zone now and then and learn something new! That, ah say, that's why we're here!

Th-th-th-th-that's all folks!

-Matthew

Well said, Matthew. There is enough negativity on this (and other) boards.
I would rather read something positive for a change.

[Sogturtle]

Thad,
You don't recall seeing frequent anti-Clampett threads? I guess you haven't been reading Sogturtles replies of the past several years.
....

J.J. and all~

Since I've gotten wrung in on this by your mention... For the zillionth (and tenth;)) time I LOVE Clampett's cartoons!! I'm the guy who even LOVES many of Bob's color cartoons that most other people hate:eek:! I will defend to the death the brilliance and humor of the vast bulk of them... Annnnnd (if anybody wonders) any time I can, I acquire things from Clampett's cartoons and career.

Buuuuut as an animation historian if a person has ANY ethics and credibility you end up HAVING to come out and expose the massive lies and claims that Bob made. THAT'S the situation I've been put in... It's just THAT simple!

Iffffff ANY other director (and I mean ANY) had made similiar claims at the expense of his fellow-directors and writers then I'd be right there trying to right things historically, no matter who it was. Hope you can understand this.

The board itself is by nature of its setup and how the mods run it always kept a happy place. If all people want is to read the polls of cartoons then why even bother keeping it open, just turn it into an eternal poll with the question of the day... Buuuuut if you're a person with any kind of intellect then you generally hunger for considerably more than polls. Annnnd if you've spent many, many years researching then you're going to be wildly unhappy if there isn't SOME intelligent conversation. [And yeah, I view this as my little home away from home:p even if some people don't always care for what I say].

[AndrewGilmore]

There is enough negativity on this (and other) boards. I would rather read something positive for a change.

You want to hear something positive? How about 5+-3? Or -8+2? :p

[Jack G.]

... For the zillionth (and tenth;)) time I LOVE Clampett's cartoons!! ...

Buuuuut as an animation historian if a person has ANY ethics and credibility you end up HAVING to come out and expose the massive lies and claims that Bob made. THAT'S the situation I've been put in... It's just THAT simple!
I understaind where you're coming from.:tweety:

I'm not sure certain people are getting it though, Sogturtle.:rolleyes:
Why, I don't know.

[mmtper]

You want to hear something positive? How about 5+-3? Or -8+2? :p

But isn't -8+2 negative?:rolleyes:

[Bugsmer]

But isn't -8+2 negative?:rolleyes:

He gave us a choice. If we chose the first number, we're optimists. If we chose the latter, we're pessimists.

I chose the one in-between.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

J.J. and all~



Iffffff ANY other director (and I mean ANY) had made similiar claims at the expense of his fellow-directors and writers then I'd be right there trying to right things historically, no matter who it was. Hope you can understand this.
That would include just about every director from the golden age of cartoons. Start rightin' your writings, Tim.

[Sogturtle]

J.J. and all~

Iffffff ANY other director (and I mean ANY) had made similiar claims at the expense of his fellow-directors and writers then I'd be right there trying to right things historically, no matter who it was. Hope you can understand this.

That would include just about every director from the golden age of cartoons. Start rightin' your writings, Tim.

As usual J.J. you're flat-out-dead-wrong!! NO other director at Warners or MGM EVER made even anything like the palest version of the asinine and outrageous claims like Clampett did. NOT Avery, not Jones, not Freleng, not McKimson, not Davis, NOT anybody at either of the those two studios!!

[J. J. Hunsecker]

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[b]As usual J.J. you're flat-out-dead-wrong!! NO other director at Warners or MGM EVER made even anything like the palest version of the asinine and outrageous claims like Clampett did. NOT Avery, not Jones, not Freleng, not McKimson, not Davis, NOT anybody at either of the those two studios!!
Well, I won't continue that argument here on this thread. (Though, personally, I've read and heard many outrageous claims from Jones, Blanc, Maltese, et al.)