MGM budget cuts

[Frank]

It seems as early as 1954's Neapolitain Mouse that there seems to be some cutting corners, as the frame rate starts to drop slightly starting in this cartoon. Pet Peeve shows T&J's slight move into more UPA influence with the design of Tom and Spike's master and the evenly cut up rug sections near the end of the cartoon. Was this a sign of what was yet to come in the 1956-1958 Cinemascope T&J?:confused:

[rbl100]

It seems as early as 1954's Neapolitain Mouse that there seems to be some cutting corners, as the frame rate starts to drop slightly starting in this cartoon. Pet Peeve shows T&J's slight move into more UPA influence with the design of Tom and Spike's master and the evenly cut up rug sections near the end of the cartoon. Was this a sign of what was yet to come in the 1956-1958 Cinemascope T&J?:confused:

Yes you are correct, it seems most post 1952/53 toons had degenerated into an inferior, void of thought-humor-taste-goodness, lacking applied physics, disturbing, time starved, quality retarded, imagination deprived, mass of color splashed nothing art. Same as abstract art of today where anything goes and is considered masterpieces by some, but nothing more than junkyard rubble to be used as kindling. The true masters of animation have been tarnished forever by the political movement of the hippie generation (baby boomers) who thought they were smarter than their parents. We see how their influence infected not just toons, but our whole society and made generations of angry youngsters that hate themselves and this great nation. This is precisely why we have a massive following of RAP, Heavy Metal music and MTV, which contributes only death, and destruction to this once civilized society, all for the mighty dollar. Too bad there are not many of us who believe in being a GOOD neighbor, having allegiance to our country, respecting others and following Judeo Christian values.

[Ray Pointer]

The cost cutting started in 1954, and shows in the cartoons released towards the end of that year. The "frame rate" remained the same, 24 fps. It was the drawings per foot that was reduced. In 35mm, 24 frames per second amounts to 1 1/2 feet of film. By making only 12 drawings per second, the exposures would be doubled to equal the required 24 frames.

The earlier Tom and Jerry cartoons used more animation on 1s, while 2s was used as well, along with several held poses. As the effects of "economizing" started to enter, fewer drawings were being made, and other tricks to move charcters in and out of scenes with fewer drawings such as "Zips" were used as well. The addition of flat styling that affected all cartoons by 1955 was another way of cutting costs since the backgrounds were simple and fast to produce, and the more limted animation did not have to be as realistic since the approach was becoming more two-dimensional. Adding to that is the fact that the cartoons became a minute shorter, which was another reduction in costs.

The final "touch" came when Hanna and Barbera became producer/directors after the retirement of Fred Quimby, From 1956 to the closing in 1957, they were producing in Cinemascope, and the product was resembling what their telvision product would eventually become with slightly better animation. Another change that can be spotted is the use of thick outlines in these "Scope" cartoons, which was necesary to compensate for animating on 2s.
The thicker line helped fill in the gaps between drawings that would have been covered by Inbetweens. This was because the larger screen area created by Cinemascope made animation on 2s appear to strobe with thin lines.:tomcat: :jerry:

[Bartman]

Yes you are correct, it seems most post 1952/53 toons had degenerated into an inferior, void of thought-humor-taste-goodness, lacking applied physics, disturbing, time starved, quality retarded, imagination deprived, mass of color splashed nothing art. Same as abstract art of today where anything goes and is considered masterpieces by some, but nothing more than junkyard rubble to be used as kindling. The true masters of animation have been tarnished forever by the political movement of the hippie generation (baby boomers) who thought they were smarter than their parents. We see how their influence infected not just toons, but our whole society and made generations of angry youngsters that hate themselves and this great nation. This is precisely why we have a massive following of RAP, Heavy Metal music and MTV, which contributes only death, and destruction to this once civilized society, all for the mighty dollar. Too bad there are not many of us who believe in being a GOOD neighbor, having allegiance to our country, respecting others and following Judeo Christian values.

YEOW! Somebody needs a nap...!

Um, for your information, I love heavy metal! I'm 40 yrs young and in no way, shape or form has my love for this music lead me to add to the so-called 'destruction' of 'this once civilized society'. I may smoke pot the way others smoke cigars - to round off a meal - but come on...! Granted, "Neopolitan Mouse" is not the greatest cartoon, but should a 6-minute animated film be branded so harshly?:confused:

[cpdavison]

At some point wasn't it decreed that a shorter maximum run-time for each MGM cartoon had to be observed to save on film stock costs? It seems like the cartoons were shortened by a full minute, like from seven to six minutes.

Anybody..?

:confused:

[Frank]

The cost cutting started in 1954, and shows in the cartoons released towards the end of that year. The "frame rate" remained the same, 24 fps. It was the drawings per foot that was reduced. In 35mm, 24 frames per second amounts to 1 1/2 feet of film. By making only 12 drawings per second, the exposures would be doubled to equal the required 24 frames.

The earlier Tom and Jerry cartoons used more animation on 1s, while 2s was used as well, along with several held poses. As the effects of "economizing" started to enter, fewer drawings were being made, and other tricks to move charcters in and out of scenes with fewer drawings such as "Zips" were used as well. The addition of flat styling that affected all cartoons by 1955 was another way of cutting costs since the backgrounds were simple and fast to produce, and the more limted animation did not have to be as realistic since the approach was becoming more two-dimensional. Adding to that is the fact that the cartoons became a minute shorter, which was another reduction in costs.

The final "touch" came when Hanna and Barbera became producer/directors after the retirement of Fred Quimby, From 1956 to the closing in 1957, they were producing in Cinemascope, and the product was resembling what their telvision product would eventually become with slightly better animation. Another change that can be spotted is the use of thick outlines in these "Scope" cartoons, which was necesary to compensate for animating on 2s.
The thicker line helped fill in the gaps between drawings that would have been covered by Inbetweens. This was because the larger screen area created by Cinemascope made animation on 2s appear to strobe with thin lines.:tomcat: :jerry:

Weren't the Cinemascope T&Js shot in Anscocolor? That could explain the inferior colors in the backgrounds. It seems the simplified character designs also made spotting animation and drawing styles harder. Muse's animation could still be spotted even on the last T&J cartoons although his animation was not as strong as it used to be. I could also spot some Lew Marshall animation in the 1956-1958 T&Js, his animation seem like a cross between Ray Patterson and Ed Barge's animation styles. I can't seem to spot any Carlo Vinci animation although he might of done the animation of Tom accidentally waking up the king in Royal Cat Nap (1958).

[Chow Hound]

Yes you are correct, it seems most post 1952/53 toons had degenerated into an inferior, void of thought-humor-taste-goodness, lacking applied physics, disturbing, time starved, quality retarded, imagination deprived, mass of color splashed nothing art. Same as abstract art of today where anything goes and is considered masterpieces by some, but nothing more than junkyard rubble to be used as kindling. The true masters of animation have been tarnished forever by the political movement of the hippie generation (baby boomers) who thought they were smarter than their parents. We see how their influence infected not just toons, but our whole society and made generations of angry youngsters that hate themselves and this great nation. This is precisely why we have a massive following of RAP, Heavy Metal music and MTV, which contributes only death, and destruction to this once civilized society, all for the mighty dollar. Too bad there are not many of us who believe in being a GOOD neighbor, having allegiance to our country, respecting others and following Judeo Christian values.

The widespread acceptance of the "anything for a buck" mentality, coupled with the hippies' political movement, has certainly been the downfall of cartoons. The former brought down the quality of the animation itself, while the latter devalued the more innocent (perhaps I should say "clean" instead?) forms of humor. It would have been bad enough if all these attitudes did was bring down classic cartoons, but unfortunately the damage went far beyond that.

[Brundledan]

Um, for your information, I love heavy metal!

Hey, me too!

http://www.acclaimposters.com/_gallery/large/10039673.jpg

And I do sympathize with rbl100, even though I was listening to Metallica's MASTER OF PUPPETS album at age 8. Even in my lifetime, I've been able to see societal tastes spiraling downward into meaner, cruder, and baser junk. The adult entertainment (not porn) of 60 and 70 years ago is laughed at and dismissed by a generation raised on fart jokes and f-bombs.

-Dan

[Chow Hound]

Even in my lifetime, I've been able to see societal tastes spiraling downward into meaner, cruder, and baser junk. The adult entertainment (not porn) of 60 and 70 years ago is laughed at and dismissed by a generation raised on fart jokes and f-bombs.

-Dan

Sadly, classic entertainment of all types (cartoons, movies, TV shows) is largely restricted to DVD now. This is going to present a chicken-and-egg problem for the next generation. You have to know it's available and that you may like it to go rent or buy it on DVD (or whatever the current home video format happens to be). But if it's not being aired on cable, how will you know if you like it, or even think to look for it at all except by watching it on DVD? Without ready access to better forms of entertainment via broadcast TV, cable, satellite, etc, I don't see tastes improving any. :(

[rbl100]

The widespread acceptance of the "anything for a buck" mentality, coupled with the hippies' political movement, has certainly been the downfall of cartoons. The former brought down the quality of the animation itself, while the latter devalued the more innocent (perhaps I should say "clean" instead?) forms of humor. It would have been bad enough if all these attitudes did was bring down classic cartoons, but unfortunately the damage went far beyond that.

Thank you Chow Hound for your support in backing me up:) . I do not invent these ideas. I only relay what I experience in life, through my own personal encounters, news reports and what others in my life have brought to my attention. There unfortunately was and is a great downfall in our society due to the influence of a breakdown in family structure, religion, morals, and discipline. We as a society do not need “ANGRY” music and videos to poison our minds. RAP, and Death Metal music are dangerous to a peaceable population in any country. Everyone knows “music” and visual images can bring out emotions in us. Why would we want to get angry and perpetuate the emotion of "anger"? Would it not be better to bring out “happiness” in people with “HAPPY” music and images instead???? MTV (which used to be good, pre-1986) and “angry” music are both sources of evil.
:cool:

[Jack G.]

We as a society do not need “ANGRY” music and videos to poison our minds. RAP, and Death Metal music are dangerous to a peaceable population in any country. Everyone knows “music” and visual images can bring out emotions in us. Why would we want to get angry and perpetuate the emotion of "anger"? Would it not be better to bring out “happiness” in people with “HAPPY” music and images instead???? MTV and “angry” music are both sources of evil.
:cool:
Well I don't like Death Metal (I find it childish and immature) and I don't like MTV because it places image over talent (that's why we have all these good looking pop tarts like Britany Spears who can't sing).

But I find your take on Metal pretty ignorant. Angry Music? Well let's say this "angry music" has brought much joy, refuge, and comfort to my life. I'm a happy well-adjusted 35-year-old. I've never touched drugs, I'm not violent, and I barely ever take a drink. I'm employed, have an education and all that.

There are many terrible things done by people in this world. Some of them listen to "angry music", some of them listen to country. And some of the people who do these horrible things, call themselves moral and god fearing.

Now let's talk cartoons.

[Detroiter]

Are you sorry you asked, Frank?

(Other) Frank

[rbl100]

Well I don't like Death Metal (I find it childish and immature) and I don't like MTV because it places image over talent (that's why we have all these good looking pop tarts like Britany Spears who can't sing).

But I find your take on Metal pretty ignorant. Angry Music? Well let's say this "angry music" has brought much joy, refuge, and comfort to my life. I'm a happy well-adjusted 35-year-old. I've never touched drugs, I'm not violent, and I barely ever take a drink. I'm employed, have an education and all that.

There are many terrible things done by people in this world. Some of them listen to "angry music", some of them listen to country. And some of the people who do these horrible things, call themselves moral and god fearing.

Now let's talk cartoons.

I'm glad you’re a good citizen. I know there are exceptions to every rule. Though I am speaking of violent acts, such as school shootings, murders by kids of their own parents, sadistic violence and murders of all kinds. This was unheard of pre-metal / rap music years (except with Charles Manson... hmm I wonder what he was listening to, must have been the drugs). This kind of violence by children, teenagers, and young adults has never been done by people listening to Elvis Presley, John Denver, The Beach Boys, KC and the Sunshine Band etc. Case Closed.

[Kaleido]

Wow, did this thread ever get off topic. Is there a way for me to hide my avatar from rbl100?

I've noticed that the technical quality of Tex Avery cartoons appeared to go downhill a few years before the Hanna/Barbera shorts. Was this simply MGM (or Fred Quimby himself) giving Bill and Joe greater resources than Tex or was it a style choice on Tex's part?

[J Lee]

Weren't the Cinemascope T&Js shot in Anscocolor? That could explain the inferior colors in the backgrounds.

All the Hanna-Barbera MGM releases (and the CinemaScope Droopys) were Color by Technicolor, the way the cartoon gods meant them to be. ;)

Like Warner Bros. Metro created its own color process in the 1950s to compete with Technicolor, but Metrocolor wasn't officially used on the Tom & Jerry shorts until the Chuck Jones series rolled out in 1963 (No color process is listed on the Gene Deitch T&J shorts done in Prague, so it's possible that those might have been done in Anscocolor -- more popular in Europe anyway -- or some other cheaper option like Deluxe or Pathecolor).

[Ray Pointer]

Like Warner Bros. Metro created its own color process in the 1950s to compete with Technicolor, but Metrocolor wasn't officially used on the Tom & Jerry shorts until the Chuck Jones series rolled out in 1963 (No color process is listed on the Gene Deitch T&J shorts done in Prague, so it's possible that those might have been done in Anscocolor -- more popular in Europe anyway -- or some other cheaper option like Deluxe or Pathecolor).

Metrocolor, like Warner Color was simply the Eastman Color process licensed to these studios, which had their own processing labs. Deluxe General Labs were owned by 20th Century-Fox using the Eastman process as well. Hanna-Barbera was using Pathe in the early 60s. Pathe was known as "Perfect Pathe." I'm not sure if that was supposed to be any guarantee against fading, however.

On another note for another possible topic, I never thought the color on the early Jay Ward productions looked very good, having seen some original prints. Not having seen the recent DVDs, I can't be sure how they look now. allowing for eletronic means of accenting color.

[Frank]

Are you sorry you asked, Frank?

(Other) Frank

Why? All I was talking about was budget cuts at MGM during the 1950's not modern entertainment!