OT: Three Stooges MGM shorts

[J. A. Boschen]

I was curious if anyone out there knew of any decent DVD releases that contain the Three Stooges MGM short subjects, which contain complete prints of the films (both beginning & end title and opening logos intact).

Along with that does anyone know of where I could find a decent copy of their 1940's film Swing Parade which was made for Monogram Pictures? Thank YOu

[jazzman78]

Columbia pictures has put out several dvds of Stooges shorts all with original titles.

To the best of my knowledge "Swing Parade" has never made it to home video of any type.

[MarkTheShark]

Columbia pictures has put out several dvds of Stooges shorts all with original titles.

To the best of my knowledge "Swing Parade" has never made it to home video of any type.

"Swing Parade Of 1946" actually has been released numerous times both on videotape and DVD. It appears to be public domain. Goodtimes has released it a few times and their version has a small "GT" logo in the corner and also has frozen reissue titles calling the film "Swing Parade." The film was produced by Monogram, which later became Allied Artists. Allied Artists actually has a theoretically "authorized" version available on DVD, which is avaialble through Amazon.com, but the beginning of the print has videotape tracking problems visible.

Most of the MGM shorts ("Beer And Pretzels," "Nertsery Rhymes," "Plane Nuts" and the Curly solo short "Roast-Beef And Movies") were on Turner's "Cavalcade Of M-G-M Shorts" laserdisc box set a number of years ago. "The Big Idea," the final Healy/Stooges M-G-M short (released after "Woman Haters" with the titles reading "Ted Healy in 'The Big Idea' with His Three Stooges, Howard, Fine and Howard") was not part of that package, but it and the other aforementioned shorts have shown up on a bunch of PD issues over the last 10 or 15 years...the ones I have seen I don't think have had the logos on them, and the color shorts ("Nertsery Rhymes" and "Roast-Beef And Movies") sometimes show up in black and white.

Because of this, I had assumed the M-G-M Stooge shorts to be public domain, but the jury seems to still be out on that one. I have read that Turner or WB took legal action against some companies for releasing them. (Earlier, in the 1980s, Joan Howard Maurer tried to sue MGM/UA for releasing the shorts on the grounds that they would damage the Stooges' reputations!) I don't see them out there any more. There was a 2-disc set released by Platinum which combined M-G-M Stooge shorts, the four Columbia PD Stooge shorts, a couple of Shemp Howard Vitaphone shorts, and a few "New 3 Stooges" cartoons, but more recently I have seen a modified version of that package which does not include the M-G-M shorts.

One of the Goodtimes compilaton DVDs has a segment from "Nertsery Rhymes" which is absolutely beautiful, with brilliant color. It looks better than the other versions of that film I have seen, including the tape I recorded back in 1989 when TNT ran them. Unfortunately it's just a clip. (And unusually, that DVD has a credit for Turner Entertainment, something to the effect that the clip was "courtesy" of Turner.)

Just to clarify, a few of the M-G-M Stooge shorts were actually filmed in an early two-strip Technicolor process (they were not colorized). The reason they were made in color was to match stock footage of discarded musical numbers from old M-G-M musicals, which were used in these shorts. In addition to "Nertsery Rhymes" and "Roast-Beef And Movies," two other Stooge-related M-G-M shorts were also filmed in Technicolor ("Hello Pop" and "Jail Birds Of Paradise," which features Moe and Curly without Larry) but these are both considered lost films.

I'd like to see WB release the Stooge shorts on DVD but it looks like they might have to work out a deal with Comedy 3, which might be difficult. (But Fox seems to have gotten around that somehow.)

[J. A. Boschen]

Thanks for the info, I to am hoping Turner/Warner will release these shorts. Seeing how other companies (Fox & Sony) have released other Stooge material, I hope that Warner Home Video joins the game also

[CueBallCat79]

An unrelated Stooge question...

Though I'm assuming they're there because they're in public domain, just how many bargain basement DVDs contain Disorder in the Court, Malice in the Palace, Brideless Groom and Sing a Song of Six Pants? Every time I see some bargain bin Stooge DVD it always has those 4 shorts on them.

[Stanislav]

Though I'm assuming they're there because they're in public domain, just how many bargain basement DVDs contain Disorder in the Court, Malice in the Palace, Brideless Groom and Sing a Song of Six Pants?

From what I've seen, approximately one for every man, woman and child on the planet. :rolleyes:

[ohmahaaha]

Thanks for the info, I to am hoping Turner/Warner will release these shorts. Seeing how other companies (Fox & Sony) have released other Stooge material, I hope that Warner Home Video joins the game also
Yes, that would be nice, but .....

WE ALL KNOW WHAT WE REALLY WANT.

Come on, Columbia Tri-Star, how about the complete Columbia Three Stooges Shorts library - RESTORED - on a decent DVD set a la what Warner is doing with Looney Tunes?

[MarkTheShark]

Yes, that would be nice, but .....

WE ALL KNOW WHAT WE REALLY WANT.

Come on, Columbia Tri-Star, how about the complete Columbia Three Stooges Shorts library - RESTORED - on a decent DVD set a la what Warner is doing with Looney Tunes?

For that to happen, Sony/Columbia/Tri-Star (or whatever they call themselves these days) has to make a deal with Comedy 3, the corporate entity which today legally owns the trademark of the Three Stooges name. (It's sort of like how KFS and WB would have to get together to release the Popeye cartoons, but C3 apparently has been more willing to play ball with Sony.)

Someone on a Stooge newsgroup posed some e-mail from someone at Comedy 3 a year or so ago, which vaguely and in very general terms suggested that they were thinking about doing a complete DVD set. (I would think it would take more than one release, since there are 190 shorts which were released between 1934 and 1959.) (97 are with Curly, 77 with Shemp and the final 16 with Joe Besser.) Of course, this is what Stooge fans want. But for "the powers that be" in this case, the major consideration is $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ and how much profit they can generate. Also, there is the issue of marketability for a lot of the later Stooge shorts (back in the 1980s a lot of the 1950s shorts were sublicensed to Goodtimes; mostly "stock-footage remakes" which Columbia really had no interest in releasing themselves). There is no indication that Columbia/Sony or C3 have any interest in making the Joe Besser Stooge shorts available, either (these are probably the ones which would sell the least). Now fortunately, we're well past the "dark ages" of the 1980s when Columbia wouldn't even release Shemp shorts on VHS, and actually repeated already-available Curly shorts before they considered releasing any Shemp shorts. But how do you do this...do it year by year? Then what happens when you run out of "Curlies?" (Analogy: what will WB do when "the well is dry" and all they have left are DePatie-Freleng Loony Tunes?)

But I'd get it immediately if they released it.

[Jack G.]

Also, there is the issue of marketability for a lot of the later Stooge shorts
...we're well past the "dark ages" of the 1980s when Columbia wouldn't even release Shemp shorts...
But how do you do this...do it year by year? Then what happens when you run out of "Curlies?" (Analogy: what will WB do when "the well is dry" and all they have left are DePatie-Freleng Loony Tunes?)

I think the best idea would be to mix up the years like they've done with the LTGC. Have a bunch of Curlys, some Shemps, and then a couple of Bessers. Divide it up proportionately to how many they have of each so the volumes will be balanced. That way people who just want the Curlys have to buy all the sets.

Does Comedy 3 Productions have something against Besser? I've never cared for him (as a Stooge) because he didn't want to be hit and getting hit is a very large part of what the Stooges are about. But still fans would like to have this stuff, so why deprive them of it?

[ohmahaaha]

But how do you do this...do it year by year? Then what happens when you run out of "Curlies?" (Analogy: what will WB do when "the well is dry" and all they have left are DePatie-Freleng Loony Tunes?)

But I'd get it immediately if they released it.
I'd go for 2 Curly Discs + 1 Shemp Disc per set. I can do without the Besser shorts altogether. Joe's schtick could be funny, but it was a poor fit to the Three Stooges act.

I think that if they released it that way, it would take them quite a while for the well to run dry - just as, to refer to your analogy, the pace that they're releasing the Looney Tunes, we would appear to have several more years left before they get down to just the Depatie-Freleng Tunes (which can stay on the shelf next to the Besser Stooge shorts as far as I'm concerned).

However, they might consider what Disney does - limited printings i.e. the Treasures or else just pulling them off the shelves the way they do all of their features to throw them into the "vault" for future re-release.

Either way, Columbia and C3 - PLEASE - Get 'Er Done!! :D

[ohmahaaha]

Does Comedy 3 Productions have something against Besser? I've never cared for him (as a Stooge) because he didn't want to be hit and getting hit is a very large part of what the Stooges are about. But still fans would like to have this stuff, so why deprive them of it?
I doubt they have anything against him, they just have good business sense - Besser might have his fans out there, but compared to the legions of Curly and Shemp fans ... are you kiddin? The Besser shorts would not sell and they know it.

[GeniusIntheLamp]

I've been quite vocal about the Stooges getting respect in the DVD arena. While my preferred choice of format is the 21-disc complete set, I would not be averse to seeing an LTGC-style set, with 4 discs and 8-9 shorts per disc. Remaster them, restore the missing scene from THREE LITTLE BEERS, and add a few extras on the Stooges themselves, their primary directors (Ed Bernds, Del Lord, and Jules White), and the primary supporting players (such as Vernon Dent, Christine McIntyre, and Emil Sitka).

Let's say the first collection is 32 shorts total. You're looking at about 15 Curlys, 14 Shemps, and 3 Bessers. The casual viewer will regard the Bessers as necessary evils in order to get to the superior Curly and Shemp shorts (though in all fairness, a couple of the Besser shorts are actually pretty good). The only dilemma will come from the last volume (Volume 5 or 6), when the remainders are mostly the sick Curlys, the Shemp remakes, and the bottom-of-the-barrel Bessers (HORSING AROUND, SWEET AND HOT). Even so, that last volume will probably be a limited edition for completists such as myself.

[MarkTheShark]

I think the best idea would be to mix up the years like they've done with the LTGC. Have a bunch of Curlys, some Shemps, and then a couple of Bessers. Divide it up proportionately to how many they have of each so the volumes will be balanced. That way people who just want the Curlys have to buy all the sets.

Does Comedy 3 Productions have something against Besser? I've never cared for him (as a Stooge) because he didn't want to be hit and getting hit is a very large part of what the Stooges are about. But still fans would like to have this stuff, so why deprive them of it?

It's a long story, but C3 is managed by the *stepsons* of Joe De Rita, "the last Stooge," who played Curly-Joe (who replaced Joe Besser).

I don't know if that has anything to do with it or not. Maybe it's just because those films (the Besser shorts) are probably the least-appreciated of all the Stooge films.

Supposedly, according to the "official" story, C3 is actually a legal corporation which was formed in 1959 by Moe Howard, Larry Fine and Joe De Rita, who legally formed a three-way partnership (with Moe Howard handling the financial aspects and splitting everything with his partners equally three ways). Therefore, according to the papers (supposedly), the Three Stooges are legally "Larry, Moe and Curly-Joe." (I believe that no one outside of the "inner circle" had heard of C3 until after De Rita's death in 1993.) (I also am not 100% positive about this, but I believe that the rights to the Curly "character" ended up belonging to Joe De Rita. Joe Besser left no heirs to my knowledge; Shemp's name and likeness are the legal property of his granddaughters.) (This is why when some of the 1950s Three Stooges comic books--originally illustrated by Norman Maurer--were reprinted in the 1980s, a contemporary artist had to go in and *redraw* some of the artwork, replacing Shemp with Curly!)

Anyway...Moe supposedly, alllegedly, etc., handled splitting everything three ways. It all went to him and he made sure the other two guys got their cut. Then when Moe and Larry died, it all went to the *estate* of Moe Howard, and the estate just kept it all. This led to a lawsuit by the Fine and De Rita families, with some downright disturbing accusations...De Rita was in a nursing home and couldn't pay his medical expenses because he'd been screwed out of royalties, etc. It's really a mess.

That probably doesn't answer your question, though, but it might be of interest.

[Jack G.]

(I also am not 100% positive about this, but I believe that the rights to the Curly "character" ended up belonging to Joe De Rita. Joe Besser left no heirs to my knowledge; Shemp's name and likeness are the legal property of his granddaughters.)

Anyway...Moe supposedly, alllegedly, etc., handled splitting everything three ways. It all went to him and he made sure the other two guys got their cut. Then when Moe and Larry died, it all went to the *estate* of Moe Howard, and the estate just kept it all.

It would be weird if De Rita "owned" Curly as a character.

I guess with various people owning the characters, It will probably take a lot of legal wrangling to realease anything.

Moe was very much a father kind of figure in the group. He managed the money and insisted that the other put a percentage away for retirement and all that.