OT: "The Muppet Show" Season Set is Edited!

[Philo & Gunge]

Everyone's worst nightmare came true. Due to music rights, 5 episodes on the upcoming "The Muppet Show: Season 1" set are editied. Here's a list of the cuts:
Joel Gray - the Wanye and Wanda number "Stormy Weather" and the Newsman bits.
Jim Nabors - 2 numbers are cut, "Gone with the Wind" performed by Jim Nabors and "The Danceros"
Paul Williams - "All of Me" performed by 2 monsters
Charles Anzavour - "Old Fashioned Way" befored by Charles Anazvour
Vincent Price - "You Got A Friend" performed by Vincent Price (which was released on one of the Time-Life DVD's uncut!)

Also cut out of the pitch reel is Kermit saying "What the hell was that?"

Still, I'll pick it up and I'll enjoy it. I've been waiting a long time. But still, the Muppets can't seem to get a break on DVD, there always getting stuff cut out. :D

[J. B. Warner]

Oh, not Vincent Price's "You've Got a Friend" number! That was half the reason I wanted this set!

But what the heck, I'll probably buy it anyway. If it's legal issues, then I don't suppose the cuts could have been helped.

[UncleJunior]

I was thinking of buying this next week. But I guess I'll pass for now, because it's not completly the full episode.

Boy, music rights really put a damper on lots of DVD's. :(

[rodney]

If it's edited, I'm not paying for it. Sorry, but I'm not encouraging that kind of stuff.

[Thad]

I thought Disney owning the Muppets now would make a difference! I thought they'd be smart and pay royalties! What a rook....

-Thad

[Philo & Gunge]

Oh, not Vincent Price's "You've Got a Friend" number! That was half the reason I wanted this set!
As I said in the first post, the Vincent Price number can be seen in it's full glory on Time-Life's "Best of the Muppet Show Vol. 5" DVD. Why Disney didn't include it, I don't know.

What I don't understand is why they cut off the "What the hell was that?" on the pitch reel. So Disney dosn't mind if Pepe touches Gonzo's tin nipples in "Muppets' Wizard of Oz" but they mind Kermit saying hell. Jim was just trying to prove that a character that was known for being on "Sesame Street" for most of his career could be entertaining for adults. The good news is that the original intros are included! Something you won't find on the Time-Life DVD's.

And if that's not enough, HIT Entertainment is releasing the 1977 Henson classic "Emmet Otter's Jug Band Christmas" on special edition DVD but they took out Kermit due to character rights. I'll still buy it, though. Let's hope they don't screw up the "Fraggle Rock: Season 1" set.

[The G Man]

Rather than complain about the edits in this thread, why not call this number:

Walt Disney Home Entertainment
800-723-4763
(in Canada: 888-877-2843)

Let's hope they don't screw up the "Fraggle Rock: Season 1" set.How would they? If the single DVD releases were unaltered (opening/closing titles aside), I have a feeling we can expect the same results from this set. And I can live with that. Plus, all the songs on that show are original and not covers.

And the extras on the Emmet DVD will be worth it, so I hear. :) Besides, Kermit doesn't really add anything to the plot, so it's not a total loss.

[Philo & Gunge]

How would they? If the single DVD releases were unaltered (opening/closing titles aside), I have a feeling we can expect the same results from this set. And I can live with that. Plus, all the songs on that show are original and not covers.
Maybe using the Odyssey cuts by mistake? I dunno, anything is possible.

Besides, Kermit doesn't really add anything to the plot, so it's not a total loss.
I know, I'm just steamed that my favorite part is cut out. I don't see how Disney didn't get this but they got "Mr. Willoby's Christmas Tree," which Kermit dosn't really affect either. It would be great if Kermit was actually in "Emmet Otter", maybe take out Doc Bullfrog and put Kermit in his place or make him part of the jug band. That would rock. :p

[Thad]

Kermit is edited from "Emmet Otter" on the DVD release?! Now I've heard everything!

I'm kind of glad I haven't bought a single Muppet DVD to date!

EDIT: Oh I remembered I bought the three movies Henson did, but that's it.

-Thad

[Dan Porceddu]

They edited five of the episodes? Tough luck for Disney, that's $30 more I can spend on Warner Home Video's sets coming out in October and November.

[speedy fast]

I know, I'm just steamed that my favorite part is cut out. I don't see how Disney didn't get this but they got "Mr. Willoby's Christmas Tree," which Kermit dosn't really affect either. It would be great if Kermit was actually in "Emmet Otter", maybe take out Doc Bullfrog and put Kermit in his place or make him part of the jug band. That would rock. :p

Or kermit could have been in the role that harrison Fox had. After all, both characters were performed by jim henson.

[grundle]

I really hope they don't edit the Linda Ronstadt and Debbie Harry episodes from season 5.

Here's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_episodes_of_The_Muppet_Show) a list of all the guest stars from all 5 seasons in case anyone's curious.

[Greg Method]

Is it wrong to say that I am not surprised at all by this news?

This is just another example of how Disney seizing the Muppets has been, at best, a mixed blessing. We get a new TV movie, but it sucks. We get more TV and web appearances, but they're uninspired and derivative. We get more merchandise, but it's all cheaply made. We get remastered episodes of the show, but they're edited. They unearth rare Jim Henson footage, but they clip off the punchline.

It's almost as if the attitude at Disney, when it comes to the Muppets anyway, is "We'll put in an effort, but just not too much of one."

I think the "You've Got a Friend" number is a perfect example. It not only appeared on the Time-Life edition, but I'm also sure it was included in the "Monster Laughs with Vincent Price" "Muppet Show" video that Disney released back in 1993. Clearly nobody is preventing this song from appearing in that "Muppet Show" episode. Most likely what it came down to was some licensing fee that Disney, for all of its self-boasted goodwill to get all the character licensing issues resolved and whatnot, couldn't haggle down to a cheaper price. That's their big "licensing issue." If they really cared and were really confident in the show and the characters, then they would have bitten the bullet and gotten everything squared away, but clearly they didn't want to put that much of a financial investment into the DVDs. As I said, just not too much of an effort.

It's sad because no matter what one's opinion may be of the current state of the Muppets, the actual "Muppet Show" deserves the same attention and care as any classic television series. To omit key sequences from episodes is to essentially rewrite television history. Can anyone imagine the furor if episodes of "I Love Lucy," or "The Honeymooners," or "Star Trek" were edited on DVD, and the problem could have been avoided if the studio simply paid off a simple licensing fee?

I agree we definitely need to call Disney and complain. Better yet, wait until after their release, such as on late Tuesday or Wednesday...this way you can start your complaint with "I bought these thinking they were restored and complete and I find out that these things are actually edited?!?"

[Jon Cooke]

I think the "You've Got a Friend" number is a perfect example. It not only appeared on the Time-Life edition, but I'm also sure it was included in the "Monster Laughs with Vincent Price" "Muppet Show" video that Disney released back in 1993.

Actually, the same song was edited from the "Monster Laughs" VHS (so was Robin's "Somewhere Over the Rainbow" from the Alice Cooper episode on the same tape).

I was actually pretty excited about this set, especially after I had heard Disney had restored the rarely seen first season show openings (which were later replaced in syndication...and I have never even seen before). Now I am feeling disappointed. It's like Ren & Stimpy and Tom & Jerry all over again. I really hope the following sets are complete. :(

I guess I won't be selling off my Time-Life discs anytime soon...


-Jon

[Sean Gaffney]

Kermit's 'what the hell was that' was likely cut because he says it in front of a giant CBS logo.

As for 'Disney is evil', sorry, but music rights SUCK. It's not just a case of 'why didn't they try harder?'. Sometimes you can't get rights at any price.

[Barb Herholzer]

Whatever the issue, if these have been edited, I will not waste my money on them. Maybe I'll rent them from Netflix.

[Leviathan]

I was anticipating this moment would come ever since this set was announced (And i used Disney's release of Scrubs, which also used a lot of music, to know what to expect from a release of the Muppet show), so i'm not really surprised or dissappointed. After all, only five songs, adding up to less than a half hour, are being cut.

The Muppet Show is like the Chappelle's Show: both hold up on DVD well even without a few musical numbers.

My main problem with the cuts is that they were divulged the weekend before the set hits shelves, essentailly a bati-and-switch for those who preordered.

As for 'Disney is evil', sorry, but music rights SUCK. It's not just a case of 'why didn't they try harder?'. Sometimes you can't get rights at any price.
True Dat. Currently, It's Impossible to License Beatles or Led Zepplin songs, so there's potential for even more Muppet shows to be edited later down the road.

While i refuse to buy the Space Ghost Coast to Coast Volume 1 DVD becuase of the missing episodes (which was inexcusable, end of story), i can at least see that Disney at least attempted to make the set complete.

[Barb Herholzer]

[QUOTE=Leviathan]I was anticipating this moment would come ever since this set was announced (And i used Disney's release of Scrubs, which also used a lot of music, to know what to expect from a release of the Muppet show), so i'm not really surprised or dissappointed. After all, only five songs, adding up to less than a half hour, are being cut.

The Muppet Show is like the Chappelle's Show: both hold up on DVD well even without a few musical numbers.

QUOTE]
I still wouldn't want to buy them. I realize that "music rights sucks," and to me that's enough reason to pass. I'd rather buy a "best of" set than this.

[Philo & Gunge]

Kermit is edited from "Emmet Otter" on the DVD release?! Now I've heard everything!
Well, the Emmet DVD out now dosn't have Kermit listening to the jug band at the end but it has him on his bike at the beginning. Nor does it have Kermit's 2 audio narrations. The upcoming DVD isn't going to have any Kermit scenes at all.

[speedy fast]

I really hope they don't edit the Linda Ronstadt and Debbie Harry episodes from season 5.

Are those your favorite episodes, or are those the only ones you haven't seen?

[speedy fast]

I think the "You've Got a Friend" number is a perfect example. It not only appeared on the Time-Life edition, but I'm also sure it was included in the "Monster Laughs with Vincent Price" "Muppet Show" video that Disney released back in 1993. Clearly nobody is preventing this song from appearing in that "Muppet Show" episode. Most likely what it came down to was some licensing fee that Disney, for all of its self-boasted goodwill to get all the character licensing issues resolved and whatnot, couldn't haggle down to a cheaper price. That's their big "licensing issue." If they really cared and were really confident in the show and the characters, then they would have bitten the bullet and gotten everything squared away, but clearly they didn't want to put that much of a financial investment into the DVDs. As I said, just not too much of an effort.

As was already mentioned, You've Got A Friend was edited from the Monster laughs With Vincent Price episode, but it (as well as another one of the edited songs, All Of Me) was included in a 1985 compilation video called Gonzo Presents Muppet Weird Stuff.

[grundle]

Are those your favorite episodes, or are those the only ones you haven't seen?
Those are two of my favorite singers.

I remember seeing the Linda Ronstadt episode during its original broadcast.
I don't remember if I've ever seen the Debbie Harry episode or not.

I haven't seen any of the 120 episodes in many, many years.

[speedy fast]

The "monster laughs with vincent price" video also edits two other scenes (besides "you've got a friend"). It edits the u.k. spot with the ghosts singign "i'm looking through you", and it edits the part with the houses. Luckily, these are on the set.

[Philo & Gunge]

Or kermit could have been in the role that harrison Fox had. After all, both characters were performed by jim henson.
And Harrison Fox was the host of the Frogtown Hollow Talent Show. :rolleyes: Somebody send Pebody and Sherman to 1977! :D

Now I'm glad I never got the "Monster Laughs with Vincent Price" video, then again, I couldn't find it anywhere. It's extremley rare compared to "Dinosaurs: Don't Cross The Boss!". I hope Disney listens to us for season 2. Still, I'm going to buy this set no matter what anybody says. I can get all these cut scenes through trade and whatnot.

[Greg Method]

As was already mentioned, You've Got A Friend was edited from the Monster laughs With Vincent Price episode, but it (as well as another one of the edited songs, All Of Me) was included in a 1985 compilation video called Gonzo Presents Muppet Weird Stuff.
Yes, I had my Muppet videos mixed up. That was the one I was trying to remember. Sorry about that, gang.

But regardless, what it shows is that clearly the songs are available for home video use. I don't know who specifically handles the publishing for "You've Got a Friend," but I really can't imagine which circumstances would lead them to say "yes" for one release and then "no" just three or so years later for what is essentially the same kind of release for the exact same production. It's probably not the most unusual thing to ever happen, but still it simply sounds fishy.

If it was a matter of having to pay more for songwriting royalties (which seems like a distinct possibility), then I'm sure many Muppet fans would have gladly paid an extra five or ten dollars if it truly meant that these episodes would be uncut...or would have gladly waited another six months or a year or whenever while the supposed "licensing issues" clear up.

I just cannot believe that while negotiating for these six songs, a conversation did not come up like: "What can we do to get these songs for this DVD?"/"You can do this and this and this..."

Don't get me wrong. I don't think Disney is pulling a Spumco here, where the "Ren and Stimpy" DVDs are a product of laziness, incompetence, and downright arrogance. Disney no doubt has legitimate reasons for why they did not acquire the rights to these songs. But still, why should that make it any better? Should it make a difference that I will not have the complete first season in my hands because the licensing was too much for Disney, or they didn't feel anyone would miss those songs, or they didn't have time to negotiate for them, or any of the other perfectly understandable reasons why they might not have been able to work things out?

Look at the Tom and Jerry DVDs. How did many fans just on here alone react to the news that some shorts were edited? Did it make a difference to them when they were offered a really lame excuse? Fans complained and complained so much that Warner Home Video's animation folks even ducked out of a Home Theater Forum chat.

I think we need to do the same thing here. By all means, buy the DVDs if you so desire...hey, I'm certainly not going to stop anyone. But, also let Disney know that this is a concern of yours. Tell them you were really on the fence about buying it if you were. If you feel Disney could have tried harder to get the missing songs, then tell them that. That's what customer service is there for, to hear our complaints. And as long as we don't sound too frantic or hostile, then they'll at least listen enough to pass our concerns along.

Never forget that as the consumers we have tremendous power. We can't get everything done by ourselves of course, but we can hopefully do enough to get things moving in the right direction. If nobody complains, then who knows what we'll be handed next time.

[Daffyfan2004]

Oh, not Vincent Price's "You've Got a Friend" number! That was half the reason I wanted this set!

But what the heck, I'll probably buy it anyway. If it's legal issues, then I don't suppose the cuts could have been helped.

Yeah. I have the Vincent Price ep on the Timelife set with the closing number, so I wouldn't really be missing that one. It's too bad about the other cuts though.

[doctorjpw]

Am I unhappy that a handful of edits have been made? Certainly.

But for crying out loud, I can't understand why people see edits and immediately think Disney is lazy. Or cheap. Or half-assed.

Lazy, cheap, half-assed DVD releases of The Muppet Show would ask you to pay $14.95 for 2 episodes, with an "Extras" budget of $0.00--dusting off stuff that was produced for a cable channel. We've seen this.

Lazy, cheap, half-assed Muppet Show DVD's would not invest the time into preparing a trivia track for every episode, nor would they think to include anything from the vaults.

When I look at this release I don't see a handful of edited episodes. I see almost 20 uncut episodes, with original openings and UK skits. As a Muppet fan, did you think you would EVER see the day of a "first season" release? I know I didn't.

I think people who take this iron wall attitude of "it's edited, no sale" are cheating themselves out of hours of enjoyment. You have to appreciate the challenge a show like this presents--every episode contains music that needs to be paid for...same with another great show, SCTV. The effort is made to include it all, but sometimes that's not possible. Yes, "You've Got a Friend" was included on the Sony release...but you were paying $7.50 retail for that one episode. Here you're getting darn near 20 uncut episodes for less than 2 bucks each! Would you honestly pay $300 ($7.50 x 24) for one season of the Muppet Show. Maybe? I know I wouldn't.

Jason

[MF TOON]

The fact that one of the episodes which appeared fully uncut on the Time-Life release, is now being cut up under Disney's handling, is absolutely unexcusable!

Why on earth would they allow for this Vincent Price segment to be edited when it was issued only a few years ago through Time-Life completely uncut? You;d think a company with the revenue and relations that Disney has would be able to clear these minor issues prior to release?

I'm very dissapointed now... the last thing I wanted was to have these season sets AND a handfull of out of place Time-Life episodes on my shelf piled next to them. I was hoping to finally replace these discs with something definitive. I can accept certain legal binding issues such as the episodes that Time-Life never cleared before... but this Vincent Price episode is a thorn in my side!

[Chow Hound]

I agree we definitely need to call Disney and complain. Better yet, wait until after their release, such as on late Tuesday or Wednesday...this way you can start your complaint with "I bought these thinking they were restored and complete and I find out that these things are actually edited?!?"

Even better, I'm going to start my complaint with: "I was thinking of buying The Muppet Show Season One but then I found out it was edited so I have now found other ways to spend my money." Now to go take it off all my wishlists *sigh*.

[Greg Method]

Would you honestly pay $300 ($7.50 x 24) for one season of the Muppet Show. Maybe? I know I wouldn't.
BUT, using the same basic formula and estimated assumption that "extra music" would put an episode up to $7.50, would you pay $2 each for 19 episodes and $7.50 each for 5 additional episodes? Surely you would agree that $75.50 is a little easier to swallow than $300, especially when very few retailers charge full suggested retail price. I know I wouldn't mind paying $60 or even $70 if it meant that the shows were completely uncut.

Unfortunately for a lot of people, DVD boxed sets are not casual or impulse purchases, especially in this economy. This isn't like buying a $12 CD and finding out one of the tracks is missing. Sure one can hop onto Deep Discount and pay just $28, but many folks aren't that lucky and will end up paying anywhere between $35 to $40. For that kind of amount, a disclaimer on the package would be more than courteous.

MF made a good point, one I agree with. This is Disney we're talking about, one of the largest media corporations in the world. If they really wanted to, they could have easily worked out an agreement. This isn't a newly recorded cover we're talking about here. These are thirty-year-old productions from a company that has built up decades of goodwill with artists and music publishers. There has to be some kind of grandfather licensing clause or precedent Disney could have researched.

I do believe it did all come down to money. Yes, Disney included extras, but these were all extras they owned from the Muppet purchase anyway: the pilot, the promos, and the pitch reel. I can't imagine the trivia track was too costly to produce, and the interviews that were assembled for this release (but shelved for next time) were done all at once at a retrospective that was produced by the Henson company itself. Remastering aside of course, there was probably not a lot of overhead cost for this release.

Like I said earlier, this is just another example of Disney's only tenuous interest in the Muppets. They want to make the Muppets their "retro" property, something to sell quickly and cheaply to Hot Topic and the younger half of the Gen X crowd before they start to feel nostalgic for 1990s stuff. They already showed with their past Muppet movie DVDs that they feel they only need to make a little bit of an effort. Many fans are no doubt more than happy with that little bit of an effort, but others naturally feel gypped. Jim Henson's Muppets deserve better.

[Marty26]

I have a question. I noticed when Nickelodeon aired the Joel Gray episode, they used the theme from the 1980 season. Has that been fixed for this compilation?

[Mike]

When I look at this release I don't see a handful of edited episodes. I see almost 20 uncut episodes, with original openings and UK skits. As a Muppet fan, did you think you would EVER see the day of a "first season" release? I know I didn't.

I agree with Jason. I'm disappointed to learn of the edits, but let's look at the big picture here. All the stuff that's included is pretty surprising. The inclusion of the UK skits makes (for us in America, anyway) for a TV-on-DVD rarity; a show that's actually more complete than it was when it was first broadcast! The original openings, the pilot, the pitch reel (even if it is missing a "hell").....Disney did a lot for a show that's essentially been dismissed as "kiddie fare."

And the edits Disney made, there seem to be legitimate reasons for. This wasn't like when Spumco put out those edited Ren and Stimpy DVDs, where segments were edited just for time purposes and then, when the fans called them on it, John K. replied "hey, Nick must've cut out even more than I thought!" (sorry, Johnny; those were Spike TV prints of the episode you put on the DVDs. That's why they had the cuts for time. Can't blame your favorite whipping boy, Nickelodeon, for this one.) This isn't like when Warner Bros. put out the T&J DVDs and then censored some shorts on them for PC reasons. These few songs that were cut were done so for licensing reasons. Yes, it's rather strange the Vincent Price song was able to be included on the Time-Life DVD, but those DVDs were issued a few years ago, and we don't know what's happened between now and then. Case in point: when the first two seasons of Married With Children were released on DVD, they had no problem using the original theme song ("Love and Marriage," by Frank Sinatra). But when it came time to put out season three, the record label began demanding an unreasonable license fee, so Sony had to use a lame soundalike version of the opening theme song. And S3 was released relatively shortly after S1 and S2. But something happened, and the record label jacked up the cost of using the song.

Bottom line: I don't have a whole lot of disposable income these days, but if I did, I wouldn't let these edits stop me from checking out the Muppet DVDs. In the world of TV-on-DVD edits, we've seen worse, both live action ("ALF" and "That 70s Show" have cut, syndicated prints of their episodes in their season box sets) and animated (the aforementioned T&J and R&S sets). And think of all the other extras that are there. Don't let a couple bad apples spoil the bunch. Just be sure to let Disney know, when you buy the discs, you're disappointed they're edited. Again, if you want to buy, I haven't read anything in this thread that should seriously discourage you from doing so.

Phew, that was a long-winded post. :daffy:

Mike

[Greg Method]

I have a question. I noticed when Nickelodeon aired the Joel Gray episode, they used the theme from the 1980 season. Has that been fixed for this compilation?
For some reason I've read different accounts on what's going on with the openings. One review I read said that all twenty-four episodes have had the original opening restored, yet another I read said that a scant number of them still retained the 1980s "second season" opening.

We probably won't know for sure until tomorrow.

[Daffyfan2004]

According to the Muppet Central Forums, they have the original openings. I think what got people confused is that they show clips from the later openings in the trailer. As far as I know they have the original.

Also, I wanted to make a comment about the edit where Kermit says 'he**.' I guess that's not to surprising, considering when the Disney channel airs repeats of sitcoms and movies, they usually edit out the swear words. I guess Disney did the same thing for a DVD release. Just my opinion on that.

[Sean Gaffney]

I've had my set since Thursday, and can assure everyone it has the original Season 1 openings. This includes the extra verse that only appeared in the Joel Grey episode.

And I am still of the opinion that the Kermit but was censored for the CBS logo, not the hell.

[grim_tales]

I've heard that while some things are cut out, some exclusive UK skits are put in their place instead for some reason on the S1 set. :)

I belive the "Mnah Mnah" song also debuted on Sesame Street before being associated with The Muppet Show ;)

I dont remember much of the original Muppet Show, but I did rather like "Muppets Tonight!" - a tarted up version in the 90's :D

Was this skit from the original show? It was one where they play The Tokens' "The Lion Sleeps Tonight" - but its played so loud the lion of the jungle can't sleep. :) Classic :D :p

[rbl100]

Why spend money on any animation or film videos that are edited??? It is almost the same as not having it to begin with. Why pay for incomplete? Maybe companies who release material should be forced to put some type of disclaimer on the packaging and advertisement media. So that the consumer is made aware prior to purchasing that they are paying for edited episodes/movies. This way we will once and for all not waste our hard earned money on scraps, bits & pieces, PC police digested, or little weak yellow lacking backbone censors who hide in their darkrooms-afterbirth.

;)

[Leviathan]

The Set is out today, and i'll probably end up getting the set by the end of the month.

Anyway, I'm gald that Disney didn't Omit entire episodes from the set (Think Space Ghost Coast to Coast), and that the edits are pretty minor

[Coco82]

Everyone's worst nightmare came true. Due to music rights, 5 episodes on the upcoming "The Muppet Show: Season 1" set are editied. Here's a list of the cuts:
Joel Gray - the Wanye and Wanda number "Stormy Weather" and the Newsman bits.
Jim Nabors - 2 numbers are cut, "Gone with the Wind" performed by Jim Nabors and "The Danceros"
Paul Williams - "All of Me" performed by 2 monsters
Charles Anzavour - "Old Fashioned Way" befored by Charles Anazvour
Vincent Price - "You Got A Friend" performed by Vincent Price (which was released on one of the Time-Life DVD's uncut!)

Also cut out of the pitch reel is Kermit saying "What the hell was that?"

Still, I'll pick it up and I'll enjoy it. I've been waiting a long time. But still, the Muppets can't seem to get a break on DVD, there always getting stuff cut out. :D


This is very disappointing. I was also considering picking this up but am not sure now.

[dnestorjr]

I Won't pay for it! But I will get it. uncut... I would have paid for it.

[speedy fast]

It's like Ren & Stimpy and Tom & Jerry all over again.

What was edited from the Ren and Stimpy sets?

[speedy fast]

I bought a copy yesterday. I enjoyed it. I watched most of the episodes, as well as all of the features (althouhg I haven't watched all of the morsels, or all of the episodes). I have posted my comments in another message board, found at www.muppetcentral.com (i post under a different username, minor muppetz, there). If you are not a member of that forum, then you should join.

:tweety:

[Jaime_Weinman]

These are thirty-year-old productions from a company that has built up decades of goodwill with artists and music publishers. There has to be some kind of grandfather licensing clause or precedent Disney could have researched.

There should be, maybe, but there isn't. Songs have to be paid for, and they have to be negotiated for each DVD release (so that Time-Life was able to make a deal doesn't mean that the same applies to Disney several years later; the rights holders might have increased the price, or might want a higher price from Disney). There really aren't any exceptions, no matter how old the thing is.

Even the WB cartoons, with the Stalling soundtracks, need to have songs cleared. Those songs like "Powerhouse" or "We're In the Money" or dozens of others are still in copyright, and no longer owned by WB -- and so they need to be cleared and paid for. (It must be a heck of a job for WB's music clearance department.)

I'll admit that the music-clearance situation is insane right now, but unfortunately, the insanity is built into copyright law as it currently stands.

[John Pannozzi]

What was edited from the Ren and Stimpy sets?

Go to http://lyris-lite.net/rscuts.html

[Daffyfan2004]

Why spend money on any animation or film videos that are edited??? It is almost the same as not having it to begin with. Why pay for incomplete? Maybe companies who release material should be forced to put some type of disclaimer on the packaging and advertisement media. So that the consumer is made aware prior to purchasing that they are paying for edited episodes/movies. This way we will once and for all not waste our hard earned money on scraps, bits & pieces, PC police digested, or little weak yellow lacking backbone censors who hide in their darkrooms-afterbirth.

;)

In a way I see what you mean. After all, the ALF DVDs are edited as well. Still, I think cuts are better than nothing. After all, I have all 15 Muppet Show sets from Timelife and ever since I got them, I've wanted to see the episodes that haven't been released. So, now I'll have a chance to see them even if they are cut. Just my opinion on this.