"Paramount Before the Code: From Boop to Nuts" (Film Forum, NYC, 7/11/05)

[Geezil]

The Fleischer program, 7:10 - 9:00 PM (in chronological order, since no exact list of the screening sequence was available):

Silly Scandals
Bimbo's Initiation
Mask-a-Raid
Any Rags
A Hunting We Will Go
Betty Boop for President
I'll Be Glad When You're Dead You Rascal You
Betty Boop's Big Boss
Popeye the Sailor
Stoopnocracy
I Heard
Betty Boop's Halloween Party
Ha Ha Ha
Betty Boop's Rise to Fame
A Dream Walking

Apart from the usual NTA, UM&M, and A.A.P. source materials, at least a few of these appeared in sharper-and-brighter-than-usual prints, whatever the sources!

All in all, a very fine show ... regrets to any NYC area GAC folks who had to miss out.

George W. as the "maybe we'll get to meet next time around" Geezil
:sailor: :betty: :D

[Tom Stathes]

Sounds like it was a great show, Geez!
Sorry I couldn't make it:o
-Tom

[Geezil]

That it was, and y' know what was the best part of all ... being in the heart of the audience and truly seeing/hearing/understanding everyone's reactions. It's been said often enough: We can collect cartoons to watch at home until it's time to find another building to store them all, but nothing beats (or ever will beat) the theatre experience.

Last evening, they all laughed loud & long with :betty:, and truly roared with approval when :sailor: finally showed up! (There was plenty of energy left to welcome Bimbo, Koko, Bluto, Olive and Wimpy as well.) And without doubt, they were of all ages.

(And BTW, which scene do you suppose got the loudest and most enthusiastic response? That would be the exchange between the donkeys and the elephants in "Betty Boop for President"! :D The more things change...)

So, to everyone who's fairly new here at GAC, don't ever listen when some fool tells you there's no life in "old" cartoon shorts any more! We're winning. Very slowly, but we're winning.

[Nelson]

I attended the 3:10 screening yesterday and was somewhat disapointed on some of the prints used for the show.The print for Silly Scandals was very poor as well as, Any Rags was not bad, but could have been better.The biggest surprise of the screening was that of Popeye returning to the silver screen, as the crowd cheered when Popeye's theme music was heard.

Although I was surprised theat "Snow White" didn't make the show and at least three other pre-code rare goodies should have made the list...Noah's Lark, Hot Dog and The Bum Bandit would have made great additons to this screening.What really confused me, was who suppiled these prints, as I saw no mention of Rebpublic nor Time Warner(for the Popeye cartoons) on the credit list.I'm not saying it was a bad show, as it was decent and every time the film forum would show Bimbo's Initiation would be from the UCLA FILM AND TELEVISON ARCHIVE, as this short along with a few others didn't open with title cards and not great print quality as well.

So up next we have the animation tribute to Gregory La Cava at MOMA on July 24th at 4pm and Monday night the 25th with Krazy Kat, Happ Hooligan, Judge Rummy and The KatzenJammer Kids and much more.

[Geezil]

Well, at least I'm sharing a thread with both Tom and Nelson for the first time in a long while. An honor, my friends.

As for where the rest of the prints came from, Nelson, I seem to recall Paramount itself getting a mention in the small print of the program. So maybe ... ?

And, yes, onward to MOMA!

[Nelson]

Well, at least I'm sharing a thread with both Tom and Nelson for the first time in a long while. An honor, my friends.

As for where the rest of the prints came from, Nelson, I seem to recall Paramount itself getting a mention in the small print of the program. So maybe ... ?

And, yes, onward to MOMA!

Well thanks for the great kind words, Geezil my brother and which show did you attend?The 3:10pm show was almost a sellout and on your question, if it was Paramount then they could have provided better prints for the screening.

But in all...It's great to see New York City getting back the classic cartoon screenings again and in the coming weeks, I plan on working alongside with MOMA and the George Eastman House on getting the four Krazy Kat cartoons that I discoverd back here in the states and on the silver screen.

[Geezil]

Well thanks for the great kind words, Geezil my brother and which show did you attend?

Like it says way up top, bro', the 7:10 one, which was certifiably a sellout!

[...]and on your question, if it was Paramount then they could have provided better prints for the screening.

True enough, and I'm somehow starting to feel wrong on that score as well.

But in all...It's great to see New York City getting back the classic cartoon screenings again and in the coming weeks, I plan on working alongside with MOMA and the George Eastman House on getting the four Krazy Kat cartoons that I discovered back here in the States and on the silver screen.

And a shout-out to the George Eastman House too!! There, I saw my very first Fleischer retrospective of beautiful 35mm prints long, long ago (never mind how long), including "Ko-Ko's Earth Control" as well as the first Superman short (which still included the complete and notorious line, "But, Chief, don't you think that's a dangerous mission for a woman?"). :eek:

That said, bring on the silents, New York!!!!!!!

[Ray Pointer]

Like it says way up top, bro', the 7:10 one, which was certifiably a sellout!
True enough, and I'm somehow starting to feel wrong on that score as well.
And a shout-out to the George Eastman House too!! There, I saw my very first Fleischer retrospective of beautiful 35mm prints long, long ago (never mind how long), including "Ko-Ko's Earth Control" as well as the first Superman short (which still included the complete and notorious line, "But, Chief, don't you think that's a dangerous assignment for a woman?"). :eek: That said, bring on the silents, New York!!!!!!!

As I have been saying all along, there is nothing like experiencing these cartoons in the manner in which they were originally meant to be see--in a theater audience. These testiments also support my comments made about why cartoons of this nature, particularly POPEYE were so popular with audiences. This event proves it, doesn't it?

By the way, in reference to the quote from Clark Kent in SUPERMAN, the line is "Chief, don't you think that's a dangerous mission?":sailor:

[Geezil]

[...]By the way, in reference to the quote from Clark Kent in SUPERMAN, the line is "Chief, don't you think that's a dangerous mission?"

So noted and corrected above as well, thanks. And I'm assuming you'd nonetheless concur that however the line was worded, it still was cut at some point in the past two decades By Order of P.C. :sowhite: :honey: :red: :betty:

Peace.

[David Gerstein]

It's a classic Screen Song from 1933. In it, a wagon from an insane asylum is seen collecting lunatics from the Fleischer Studio offices! Later, the comedian Colonel Stoopnagle (F. Chase Taylor) and his partner Bud are seen in live action, discussing their various crazy inventions. Among them is "Cab Calloway milk," a brand of milk that makes a little kid jump up and sing "Minnie the Moocher" after he drinks it.
One of the better later Screen Songs, IMHO. No Bimbo, Koko, Betty, or other famous cartoon stars in it, though— just random animals.

[Tom Stathes]

Nelson,

Do you know what cartoons specifically will be shown at the La Cava screening?
I'm dying to know, being a print collector myself and having some similar material.
Thanks
Tom

[Ray Pointer]

It's a classic Screen Song from 1933. In it, a wagon from an insane asylum is seen collecting lunatics from the Fleischer Studio offices! Later, the comedian Colonel Stoopnagle (F. Chase Taylor) and his partner Bud are seen in live action, discussing their various crazy inventions. Among them is "Cab Calloway milk," a brand of milk that makes a little kid jump up and sing "Minnie the Moocher" after he drinks it.
One of the better later Screen Songs, IMHO. No Bimbo, Koko, Betty, or other famous cartoon stars in it, though— just random animals.

One of the funniest inside gags shows a ambulance for the assylum rolling up outside the window of an animator drawing Betty Boop. The driver of the ambulance calls out, "What do you do?" the animator says, "I make animated cartoons!" A fishermans net telescopes forward, scoops up the animator, and the ambulance drives away.:betty:

[Ray Pointer]

[QUOTE=Geezil]So noted and corrected above as well, thanks. And I'm assuming you'd nonetheless concur that however the line was worded, it still was cut at some point in the past two decades By Order of P.C. :sowhite: :honey: :red: :betty:

I first saw SUPERMAN #1 35 years ago, and I have seen this cartoon numerous times since then. The line, "Chief, don't you think that's a dangerous mission" was in prints then. It was in all 16mm prints that way, and was also in the 35mm sources that surfaced 25 years ago. This was the dialogue as it was originally produced. So the question is, according to whom was it necessary to censor this dialogue when there was nothing policitally incorrect about it in the first place?

[Geezil]

I first saw SUPERMAN #1 35 years ago, and I have seen this cartoon numerous times since then. The line, "Chief, don't you think that's a dangerous mission" was in prints then. It was in all 16mm prints that way, and was also in the 35mm sources that surfaced 25 years ago. This was the dialogue as it was originally produced. So the question is, according to whom was it necessary to censor this dialogue when there was nothing policitally incorrect about it in the first place?

Well, Ray, here we go again with your highly informative and yet unnecessary retorts. For whatever this may be worth in your estimation, my original viewing of the 35mm print was there in the George Eastman House in 1978, and the full line as I quoted it (if at first otherwise incorrectly) was quite audibly there, last three words and all.

So, if you'll excuse my grabbing an even larger mallet to swing at this next point, it follows that any such snip would have been the result of a latter-day presumption of sexism in the wording, irrespective of there in fact having been "nothing politically incorrect about it in the first place" when that "place" was 1941.

And if you seek undeniable proof that the cut was made, let me suggest that you locate a tape of any showing on Cartoon Network, Nick at Nite, AMC (if applicable), Boomerang, or TCM, and turn the volume up very high just before that spot. It is there. [EDIT: It is also clearly there on the DVDs containing this short.]

That said, let me also suggest that you consider using Private Messages more frequently in the future when differences of opinion such as these arise, whomever the party that may have triggered the disagreement.

Again, Peace.

[Ray Pointer]

As you stated it, it was not clear that the complete line you referenced was in the Eastman House print. This sheds a new light on the matter, which suggests that the master elements and negatives have had this bit of dialogue "censored" all these decades. The actual reason for this is what is most interesting since the concept and term "political correctness" has come into general use in the past 15 to 20 years or so. It would appear that your statement as posted suggests that the edit was motivated by PC awareness in recent years, when in fact, the edit has been there for decades, as this is now indicating. This adds more interest and curiosity about this matter.

[Geezil]

Could some disinterested third party kindly weigh in on this question, perhaps in a separate thread? I'm frankly tired of the process by which they tend to turn into arguments disguised as debates, when none are originally intended or called for. Thanks.

Geezil

(P.S. to Ray: The more times I re-read your most recent comment above, the more cyclical and confusing it becomes relative to my description of the Eastman House showing itself vs. subsequently available versions of that short. And since this is a thread that started out with an entirely different topic, let's move on already.)