Irv Spector at Depatie/Freleng

[rodney]

I was wondering if someone could explain the circumstances that led Irv Spector to end up at Depatie/Freleng for one ill-fated cartoon. I assume that he left because it turned out so badly. Perhaps this one was directed from the east coast? Seems like I recall him being with Famous for a time.

Any help would be appreciated.

[cbrubaker]

Keep in mind that after Spector directed "Corn on the Cop", he still stayed as a writer for DFE's theatricals.

His last screen credit for DePatie-Freleng was "The Lorax", aired in 1972.

[Dave Mackey]

Keep in mind that after Spector directed "Corn on the Cop", he still stayed as a writer for DFE's theatricals.

His last screen credit for DePatie-Freleng was "The Lorax", aired in 1972.

Irving Spector was a Famous Studios mainstay for most of the studio's history (having started at Fleischer's). He had credits as both an animator and a writer, almost to the end of the Seymour Kneitel era. He did a lot of Popeye and Screen Songs/Kartunes.

He did go west in the 60's and wound up working with the DePatie-Freleng crew as stated. He also worked on some of Chuck Jones' projects for M-G-M, including "How The Grinch Stole Christmas".

[HisBoyElroy]

I was wondering if someone could explain the circumstances that led Irv Spector to end up at Depatie/Freleng for one ill-fated cartoon. I assume that he left because it turned out so badly. Perhaps this one was directed from the east coast? Seems like I recall him being with Famous for a time. Any help would be appreciated.

A mystery for sure: why would two people known throughout much of their careers for directing and writing, respectively, flip-flop roles? He never mentioned it, "ill-fated" or otherwise. I never even thought about it until I started seeing the credits pop--up on the Internet several years back. It always stuck in the back of my mind. I don't even remember having ever seen it -- although I might have at some point years ago. It's possible that I could have the rough storyboards somewhere in a box. I'd have to see the cartoon first to be sure.

- HisBoyElroy

[J Lee]

Irv Spector left D-FE after only a brief stint in 1964 because he got a better job. Spector went to work for Ed Graham, who was in the process of producing the Linus the Lionhearted Show (http://www.toontracker.com/linus/linus.htm) for CBS, using new and reworked characters who were designed to sell Post cerials. Post and parent company General Foods were one of the biggest sponsors on TV at the time, and especially at CBS, mainly on the shows executive produced by Sheldon Leonard, who porvided the voice of Linus (basically, Sheldon's near-normal voice and the same voice as Dodsworth in the two 1950s WB cartoobs done by Bob McKimson). Carl Reiner and Ruth Buzzi were among the other s regular voices on the show.

Graham was based in New York, while Spector left Paramount Studios there to go out to California, and apparently was working at D-FE when he was contacted by Graham about overseeing the series, which ran new shows for two seasons, 1964-66. After the series ended (and brought on protests about cartoons being used to peddle sugary cerials to little kids), Spector collaborated with Chuck Jones on "The Bear that Wasn't" for MGM.

[Ray Pointer]

Irving Spector goes back even further. He was an animator for Fleischer Studios, and continued with the Famous/Paramount transition for several years. The reason he ended up on the west coast is the same reason why east coast veterans such as Dave Tendlar, Larry Silverman, and Jack Ozark went west. The animation scene had virtually dried up in New York, and the prospects were in the LA studios. At the same time, the people running the business at the time knew who these vetrans were, so it was no consequence about their being hired.

Today with all of the "sophistication" and "education," the people in the industry do not know who the qualified people are outside of their own circles, or outside of who they are "told" is qualified. You'd think that seeing the work would be enough. Instead they administer "tests" because the industry now functions as an extention of the animation schools, giving grades to portfolios, and does not seem to give credence to those with established credentials.

[Studio Toledo]

Irving Spector goes back even further. He was an animator for Fleischer Studios, and continued with the Famous/Paramount transition for several years. The reason he ended up on the west coast is the same reason why east coast veterans such as Dave Tendlar, Larry Silverman, and Jack Ozark went west. The animation scene had virtually dried up in New York, and the prospects were in the LA studios. At the same time, the people running the business at the time knew who these vetrans were, so it was no consequence about their being hired.

Today with all of the "sophistication" and "education," the people in the industry do not know who the qualified people are outside of their own circles, or outside of who they are "told" is qualified. You'd think that seeing the work would be enough. Instead they administer "tests" because the industry now functions as an extention of the animation schools, giving grades to portfolios, and does not seem to give credence to those with established credentials.

Shame really.

[HisBoyElroy]

Irving Spector goes back even further. He was an animator for Fleischer Studios, and continued with the Famous/Paramount transition for several years. The reason he ended up on the west coast is the same reason why east coast veterans such as Dave Tendlar, Larry Silverman, and Jack Ozark went west. The animation scene had virtually dried up in New York, and the prospects were in the LA studios. At the same time, the people running the business at the time knew who these vetrans were, so it was no consequence about their being hired.

Today with all of the "sophistication" and "education," the people in the industry do not know who the qualified people are outside of their own circles, or outside of who they are "told" is qualified. You'd think that seeing the work would be enough. Instead they administer "tests" because the industry now functions as an extention of the animation schools, giving grades to portfolios, and does not seem to give credence to those with established credentials.

All true re Spector and the others, as the animation industry began to shift into producing their films more for television and less for the theatrical release. In 1961 he made several trips back and forth from our dinky little tract home on Long Island to Los Angeles looking for work, and the rest of our family ended up moving there for good in '62 when he finallly got some decent semi-steady employment at Hanna-Barbera (he did make one trip back to New York after that looking for more work -- television is (or was then in the pre-cable days, more Fall-seasonal oriented.

About his long term association with Fleisher/Paramount/Famous (and a few other studios): you may not know (but I'll assume might be interested so please indulge anything long-winded) that after his discharge at the end of WWII he was back in NY and picking up comic book jobs (artist and writer) for Timely Pubs. as well as the occasional animation industry gig. What you may not know is that from the late 1940's through '54 he had his own comic strip in the since-definct New York Herald Tribune (NY Herald-Tibune Syndicate) called "Coogy." He loved the strip but it didn't pay all the bills so he was supplementing his income.(There's virtually nothing about this on the Internet -- but if you're ever in NYC you can check it out at the Main Library -- last time I saw it there was on microfilm, might be on disc by now (as it appeared in the Herald Tribune, not his large originals.) You'd never think to notice but he has alot more screen credits after '54 when his contract with HT Synd. was not renewed. The reason? "Too wordy." That fits with what was happening at this point -- the writer in him was emerging (lots more story than animation creds for many years to come.) And so after '54 until the move to LA he was pretty much back in the animation industry.

Re the remarks on the current state of the industry. I'm not qualified to say, but I can believe it. In the early '70s I distinctly remember him telling me that a young animator (I was actually acquainted with him from a previous college class) came up to him and asked, "Why aren't they teaching us anything?"

-HisBoyElroy

[HisBoyElroy]

Keep in mind that after Spector directed "Corn on the Cop", he still stayed as a writer for DFE's theatricals.

His last screen credit for DePatie-Freleng was "The Lorax", aired in 1972.

...at which point he moved over to Filmation.

- HisBoyElroy

[HisBoyElroy]

Irv Spector left D-FE after only a brief stint in 1964 because he got a better job. Spector went to work for Ed Graham, who was in the process of producing the Linus the Lionhearted Show (http://www.toontracker.com/linus/linus.htm) for CBS, using new and reworked characters who were designed to sell Post cerials. Post and parent company General Foods were one of the biggest sponsors on TV at the time, and especially at CBS, mainly on the shows executive produced by Sheldon Leonard, who porvided the voice of Linus (basically, Sheldon's near-normal voice and the same voice as Dodsworth in the two 1950s WB cartoobs done by Bob McKimson). Carl Reiner and Ruth Buzzi were among the other s regular voices on the show.

Graham was based in New York, while Spector left Paramount Studios there to go out to California, and apparently was working at D-FE when he was contacted by Graham about overseeing the series, which ran new shows for two seasons, 1964-66. After the series ended (and brought on protests about cartoons being used to peddle sugary cerials to little kids), Spector collaborated with Chuck Jones on "The Bear that Wasn't" for MGM.

Prior to the D-FE he did a lot of H&B Saturday morning shows. Graham was a NY ad agency person who struck out on his own (no pun intended ... I think.) Pre Linus the Lionhearted, my father was recommended to him when Graham was either going after -- or had already received -- the green light to produce some animated TV commercials for INA Insurance. (Why not?, at that point in time so many of the NY cartoonist crowd were already in LA.) There were several produced and were based on fairy tales: think "Rapunzel" plus insurance and you can figure out the rest. Anyway, these were a success and Graham went on to get the Post Cereal/General Foods go ahead to do some pencil tests. He used my father, who opened up the formal production office in LA (Graham stayed in NY) and was supervising director for the Linus series -- the first few years on CBS, not it's later reprise on ABC.

Offering more than you ever wanted to know,
-HisBoyElroy

[J. J. Hunsecker]

In 1961 he made several trips back and forth from our dinky little tract home on Long Island to Los Angeles looking for work, and the rest of our family ended up moving there for good in '62 when he finallly got some decent semi-steady employment at Hanna-Barbera (he did make one trip back to New York after that looking for more work -- television is (or was then in the pre-cable days, more Fall-seasonal oriented.

-HisBoyElroy
I didn't know you were related to Irv Spector! Did he ever tell you any juicy gossip about working at Fleischers or Famous Studios? Or about Friz Freleng or Chuck Jones after he worked for them in the early sixties?

[J Lee]

Prior to the D-FE he did a lot of H&B Saturday morning shows. Graham was a NY ad agency person who struck out on his own (no pun intended ... I think.) Pre Linus the Lionhearted, my father was recommended to him when Graham was either going after -- or had already received -- the green light to produce some animated TV commercials for INA Insurance. (Why not?, at that point in time so many of the NY cartoonist crowd were already in LA.) There were several produced and were based on fairy tales: think "Rapunzel" plus insurance and you can figure out the rest. Anyway, these were a success and Graham went on to get the Post Cereal/General Foods go ahead to do some pencil tests. He used my father, who opened up the formal production office in LA (Graham stayed in NY) and was supervising director for the Linus series -- the first few years on CBS, not it's later reprise on ABC.

Offering more than you ever wanted to know,
-HisBoyElroy

Thanks for offering up the information from a first-hand source. The last Paramount cartoon I remeber seeing his name on in writing credits was 1962's "Robot Ringer", so there seemed to be a gap between then and the time Irv turned up at D-FE -- I didn't know he had gone to work in-between for Hanna-Barbera, though with other former Famous/Fleischer people already at work there, it would make sense.

For what it's worth from me, I thought in the mid and late 1950s, he did the best story work for Famous/Paramount, especially on the one-shot Noveltoons and Modern Madcaps. Given the limited budgets and animation by the end of the 50s, it was probably good training for the cartoons on the Linue the Lionhearted Show, since they were heavy on dialogue and plot with the limited animation.

[cbrubaker]

While "Linus" had limited animation, wern't the budget bigger than any other limited animation shows from that time?

So, did Irv Spector leave DFE after "Corn on the Cop" then returned to write theatrical shorts? He wrote one of my favorite "Ant and the Aardvark" short, "Scratch a Tiger".

[Studio Toledo]

Thanks for offering up the information from a first-hand source. The last Paramount cartoon I remeber seeing his name on in writing credits was 1962's "Robot Ringer", so there seemed to be a gap between then and the time Irv turned up at D-FE -- I didn't know he had gone to work in-between for Hanna-Barbera, though with other former Famous/Fleischer people already at work there, it would make sense.

Heh, I remember that cartoon! A humanoid robot from some science museum (I think his name was Barnes Baisley or such) escapes and walks into an ad agency where he assumes the look of the other guys. Because of his ability to repeat what he hears, his 'ideas' get notice from the boss and got promoted to the title of creative director, all to the dismay of a professor who just wants his robot back!

"Listen professor, lay off! He's the greatest creative director this company has ever had... and best of all, he NEVER goes out to lunch!"

For what it's worth from me, I thought in the mid and late 1950s, he did the best story work for Famous/Paramount, especially on the one-shot Noveltoons and Modern Madcaps. Given the limited budgets and animation by the end of the 50s, it was probably good training for the cartoons on the Linue the Lionhearted Show, since they were heavy on dialogue and plot with the limited animation.

Seeing that brief clip on Toontracker, Linus the Lionhearted sounded like a pretty interesting cartoon (when you forget about the advertising inplied).

[HisBoyElroy]

I didn't know you were related to Irv Spector! Did he ever tell you any juicy gossip about working at Fleischers or Famous Studios? Or about Friz Freleng or Chuck Jones after he worked for them in the early sixties?

Well, I don't really have any specific juicy gossip -- you folks here seem to know much more of that than I do -- but I do find it interesting...the gossip that is, not that fact that you know it. Although regarding the latter I am totally behind the passion of anybody who cares enough about those times and places to want to spread it. (Uh...that's a compliment in case it doesn't read quite right.) Anyway, I'm sure you probably meant great stories to retell with specific names involved. Hey, I wish I did. Everyone here seems to have that covered, meaning that the overall tone of how specific animation industry names are referred in this forum(s) is pretty much how I recall how they were thought of at that time as well. For instance, who was a pr*ck, who was egomanical, or controlling, or took credit more than their fair share of credit, etc.

(ASIDE: I'm not sure that every separate tidbit is always 100% correct -- this stuff is necessarily subjective by nature: who's telling it for what reason because they're pissed off for whatever reason (I'm referring to the info's source(s) here, not the people posting on the forum, although on a few posts I do wonder where the info comes from. Correct or incorrect, just the source, if any, and how it came to be that way.)

However, if there's any interest I could post about who in the animation industry crowd my father and my family hung out with (I mention families because the families got together all the time.) That might give a good feel for the era, as you'd recognize the names and the studios they worked for, and then could see why I think the members here have the overall tone correct (about what I stated two paragraphs above) which you already know you do. I am talking about from the very late 50's and early '60's here and onward, in LA, when I was getting old enough to understand it all, although many of the people I am referring to are from the "old guard", pre-and-post WWII. Again, it's not specifics, just a "feel." Jeez I hope this makes sense. (so you ask "Why didn't you write THAT instead of this paragraph!?")

By the way, if that sounds totally dull let me know -- I'm not thin-skinned and would still be back here to bore the hell out of you.

[HisBoyElroy]

Thanks for offering up the information from a first-hand source. The last Paramount cartoon I remeber seeing his name on in writing credits was 1962's "Robot Ringer", so there seemed to be a gap between then and the time Irv turned up at D-FE -- I didn't know he had gone to work in-between for Hanna-Barbera, though with other former Famous/Fleischer people already at work there, it would make sense.

For what it's worth from me, I thought in the mid and late 1950s, he did the best story work for Famous/Paramount, especially on the one-shot Noveltoons and Modern Madcaps. Given the limited budgets and animation by the end of the 50s, it was probably good training for the cartoons on the Linue the Lionhearted Show, since they were heavy on dialogue and plot with the limited animation.

Re the Hanna-Barbera. It makes sense that you wouldn't. Around '61-62-63 he was back and forth between NY and LA several times. I think I wrote in another post on another forum here what you already know, that NY was a dying scene and so many cartoonists were super hard-up for work. So you'd be asking yourself how could he be getting screen credit on LA shows and a year later get another on a NY production. It was the back and forth looking for work. What I recently read elsewhere on the internet is that some of the early Flintstone's have lost their end credits -- that they were on a separate film from the main show itself and have subsequently gone missing. You probably know better than I do if that's true. But that would be another reason for an appearant anachronism. In fact the rest of the family finally left NY to join him in LA for good when H&B gave him a job (and then again back to NY briefly in the LA TV off-season.) Confusing, right? He ended up working on so many of their several different shows during those years, Quickdraw McGraw and others of that ilk. Oh, yeah, Jetson too. I remember him working on the pilot for the series so he was there at least THAT year (whichever their first year was.)

A good amount of people also seem to share your same fondness for the Famous/Paramount stuff (others seem to think they're too silly.) Nonetheless, I like them too (although I'm bias.) Did you like any of those Misseur(sp?) Boris the Matchmaker cartoons? I have alot of those boards. Let me know.

[HisBoyElroy]

While "Linus" had limited animation, wern't the budget bigger than any other limited animation shows from that time?

So, did Irv Spector leave DFE after "Corn on the Cop" then returned to write theatrical shorts? He wrote one of my favorite "Ant and the Aardvark" short, "Scratch a Tiger".

RE Linus. They might have been, I'm not sure. Maybe because the LA studio was being funded through NY money (Ed Graham Productions main office (I guess you would call it the business office) and Graham himself remained in NY. And, they DID have POST Cereal money. This was ad agency stuff, remember. However, I have tons of continual correspondence from Graham to both my father and Lew Irwin (production/office head) in the LA office where the creative work was done asking to keep costs down.

I'm not sure about the time frame on all that. Linus had two different runs. My father was only involved in the first, nothing at all to do with the second one in the later 60's (on ABC, I think.) Maybe Corn on the Cop after the first Linus run? (I don't keep exact track of the dates but feel free to clue me in.) I might have some "A and the A" stuff. Maybe only model sheets, not sure about boards. Possibly tho. I can take a look.

[cbrubaker]

RE Linus. They might have been, I'm not sure. Maybe because the LA studio was being funded through NY money (Ed Graham Productions main office (I guess you would call it the business office) and Graham himself remained in NY. And, they DID have POST Cereal money. This was ad agency stuff, remember. However, I have tons of continual correspondence from Graham to both my father and Lew Irwin (production/office head) in the LA office where the creative work was done asking to keep costs down.

I'm not sure about the time frame on all that. Linus had two different runs. My father was only involved in the first, nothing at all to do with the second one in the later 60's (on ABC, I think.) Maybe Corn on the Cop after the first Linus run? (I don't keep exact track of the dates but feel free to clue me in.) I might have some "A and the A" stuff. Maybe only model sheets, not sure about boards. Possibly tho. I can take a look.

He was active mostly in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Here are the list of DFE shorts he wrote.

1969:
Technology, Phooey (Ant and the Aardvark)
Flying Feet (Roland and Rattfink)

1970:
Scratch a Tiger (Ant and the Aardvark)

1971:
Gong with the Pink (Pink Panther)

He also storyboarded "The Lorax", which I believe aired in 1972.

[Ray Pointer]

Re the remarks on the current state of the industry. I'm not qualified to say, but I can believe it. In the early '70s I distinctly remember him telling me that a young animator (I was actually acquainted with him from a previous college class) came up to him and asked, "Why aren't they teaching us anything?"

-HisBoyElroy[/QUOTE]

"Why aren't they teaching us anything?" Those were my exact words to Rudy Zamora, Jr. when I got my first job 38 years ago at Jam Handy. My furstration was that I had read everything available about the technical aspects, which I had a grasp of. It was the nuances of animating that I was eager to learn. And the level of work being done did not really teach me much more than what I'd picked on my own making my own films up to that point.

This was the age-old problem with the industry. For a generation, it did little or nothing to prepare a new wave of people until the sudden floodgates burst open starting in the late 1980s inspired by the sucess of non Disney features such as AN AMERICAN TAIL. As the attention for quality animation shifted towards features, television work was left wide open on an expanded level.
To fill the requirements for staffing the production positions, the studios recruited students from CalArts, Parsons, and Art Center. As an extension of the school experience, the process of "testing" and portfolio "grading" became part of the qualification process. The fist studio that I was aware of doing this was Klasky-Csupo. Since then, all others followed suit. Imagine hiring an animator or director and administering a "test" when that animator or director already had credentials and a show reel to substantiate his/her qualifications.
Again, the people hiring do not know the business they are in, and do not necessarily know the qualified people in it. That's why they "test" their professionalism, and sad thing is that these are the people in the position to
control the careers of others. Thank goodness the veterans such as Irv Spector were still recognized without having to go through such "auditions."

[J Lee]

Re the Hanna-Barbera. It makes sense that you wouldn't. Around '61-62-63 he was back and forth between NY and LA several times. I think I wrote in another post on another forum here what you already know, that NY was a dying scene and so many cartoonists were super hard-up for work. So you'd be asking yourself how could he be getting screen credit on LA shows and a year later get another on a NY production. It was the back and forth looking for work. What I recently read elsewhere on the internet is that some of the early Flintstone's have lost their end credits -- that they were on a separate film from the main show itself and have subsequently gone missing. You probably know better than I do if that's true. But that would be another reason for an appearant anachronism. In fact the rest of the family finally left NY to join him in LA for good when H&B gave him a job (and then again back to NY briefly in the LA TV off-season.) Confusing, right? He ended up working on so many of their several different shows during those years, Quickdraw McGraw and others of that ilk. Oh, yeah, Jetson too. I remember him working on the pilot for the series so he was there at least THAT year (whichever their first year was.)

A good amount of people also seem to share your same fondness for the Famous/Paramount stuff (others seem to think they're too silly.) Nonetheless, I like them too (although I'm bias.) Did you like any of those Misseur(sp?) Boris the Matchmaker cartoons? I have alot of those boards. Let me know.

M. Renoir I believe was his name in "L'Amour the Merrier" and "La Petite Parade", the later of which is probably the best-remembered of the late 1950s-early 1960s Paramount cartoons, mainly for the matchmaker's description of the parade/trash dump to the various local authorities. As is the case with most of the post-1956 Paramount shorts, the story is more important than the (limited) animation, so Spector and anyone else who worked on the script deserve the bulk of the credit for its success.

I'd have to go through all the records to get an exact list of his 1950s-early 60s story credits, but in general his stories, especially on the one-shot cartoons in the late 1950s, were more adult in tone than the stories coming out of the other writers at the studio, even when the animation wasn't there to support it, such as in the Madison Ave. advertising send-up "Robot Ringer". But it probably did make Irv a natural choice to work with folks like Leonard and Reiner on the Linus cartoons, which were a little more adult in tone than your average made-for-TV Saturday fare, and to collaborate with Chuck Jones on the "Grinch" and "Bear that Wasn't" works, since Chuck's one-shot stories by the end of the 1950s were also taking on a more adult-flavored tone.

[HisBoyElroy]

He was active mostly in the late 1960s and early 1970s. Here are the list of DFE shorts he wrote.

1969:
Technology, Phooey (Ant and the Aardvark)
Flying Feet (Roland and Rattfink)

1970:
Scratch a Tiger (Ant and the Aardvark)

1971:
Gong with the Pink (Pink Panther)

He also storyboarded "The Lorax", which I believe aired in 1972.

Okay. I know I have a decent amount of much of this. Possibly a lot more, because for the series shows my feeling is he would have done more than just one story per character, i.e., several Pink Panther's, not just one. Of course I could be laboring under a misconception on that, and the amount. I'll try and get a few things up by the end of the weekend. Some of this is mixed up in separate containers due to some rearranging I had to do (water damage in the basement -- not to his work though.) I'm transferring some of it into plastic containers in the next few days and will keep and eye out for it and yank it. Model sheets I think I happen to have but of course he did not draw them. Storyboards most likely, and maybe some handwritten items for his own working things out. This is all pencil stuff, not color. I got things, I know that. If anyone would like to see any of this online, let me know.

Re The Lorax: He was involved with the Seuss stuff from The Grinch on -- Lorax, Horton, etc. I have stuff on that. By the way, he is accurately co-credited with Bob Ogle for Additional Story on the Grinch but uncredited for the layout work he did on it. I have some of his layout stuff as well as other drawings, etc. from the Seuss era. Again, this is pencil stuff. As above, let me know what interests people.

Certainly many people here have seen these types of items before, just not these in specific . Hence it is fine with me if you want to stop me now. I can tell you that after you've seen 2 model sheets from Ant and the Aardvark that a third from the Pink Panther may not be so interesting. The same might hold true for other items. On the other hand, I don't want to underestimate anybody's passion or obsession because I reckon you're all posting here for darn good reasons.

[HisBoyElroy]

M. Renoir I believe was his name in "L'Amour the Merrier" and "La Petite Parade", the later of which is probably the best-remembered of the late 1950s-early 1960s Paramount cartoons, mainly for the matchmaker's description of the parade/trash dump to the various local authorities. As is the case with most of the post-1956 Paramount shorts, the story is more important than the (limited) animation, so Spector and anyone else who worked on the script deserve the bulk of the credit for its success.

I'd have to go through all the records to get an exact list of his 1950s-early 60s story credits, but in general his stories, especially on the one-shot cartoons in the late 1950s, were more adult in tone than the stories coming out of the other writers at the studio, even when the animation wasn't there to support it, such as in the Madison Ave. advertising send-up "Robot Ringer". But it probably did make Irv a natural choice to work with folks like Leonard and Reiner on the Linus cartoons, which were a little more adult in tone than your average made-for-TV Saturday fare, and to collaborate with Chuck Jones on the "Grinch" and "Bear that Wasn't" works, since Chuck's one-shot stories by the end of the 1950s were also taking on a more adult-flavored tone.

Thanks for your feedback and perspective. I'm sure you're correct about the M. Renoir name. I'm also sure I have his boards -- pretty much complete for one if not both of "L'Amour the Merrier" and "La Petite Parade." They're quite nice. Not just lead pencil but in grease pencil, perhaps a little color in parts. He also did a Modern Madcap (I think it was MM) matchmaker story titled "Galaxia" and I think that's where I got the name Boris. His name might be Boris in that one. It's about a robotic looking spaceman who comes to Earth and keeps falling in love with machines, a gumball machine, then a juke box...etc. -- the matchmaker tries to hook him up with them. Whether anyone likes this story/cartoon or not I can tell you that it's a really nice example of a storyboard. He threw in more color than you ever see in these things and many camera directions and shots. If you saw it in its entirety it almost directs itself. It looks and reads as if it leapt out from him almost wholly formed. This might be in line with what you mentioned ... "As is the case with most of the post-1956 Paramount shorts, the story is more important than the (limited) animation, so Spector and anyone else who worked on the script deserve the bulk of the credit for its success." I know my quoting you on that comes across as a shameless plug, but you have a good take on his work in that little period there and it's subsequent evolution through the sixties (although he was probably more confined in the later half of the 60's as to what he could write.) As a matter of fact I know he got a personal kick out of them. And, as it turns out I happen to have 8 or 10 of these sheets already scanned and will gladly put them online if you or anyone else is interested.

[cbrubaker]

I'm definatly interested in checking out the Ant and the Aardvark model sheets.

There were some models of Aardvark in the PP book Jerry Beck wrote. Let's just say Aardvark originally looked like Terrytoons' Sidney the Elephant.

[HisBoyElroy]

Re the remarks on the current state of the industry. I'm not qualified to say, but I can believe it. In the early '70s I distinctly remember him telling me that a young animator (I was actually acquainted with him from a previous college class) came up to him and asked, "Why aren't they teaching us anything?"

-HisBoyElroy

"Why aren't they teaching us anything?" Those were my exact words to Rudy Zamora, Jr. when I got my first job 38 years ago at Jam Handy. My furstration was that I had read everything available about the technical aspects, which I had a grasp of. It was the nuances of animating that I was eager to learn. And the level of work being done did not really teach me much more than what I'd picked on my own making my own films up to that point.

This was the age-old problem with the industry. For a generation, it did little or nothing to prepare a new wave of people until the sudden floodgates burst open starting in the late 1980s inspired by the sucess of non Disney features such as AN AMERICAN TAIL. As the attention for quality animation shifted towards features, television work was left wide open on an expanded level.
To fill the requirements for staffing the production positions, the studios recruited students from CalArts, Parsons, and Art Center. As an extension of the school experience, the process of "testing" and portfolio "grading" became part of the qualification process. The fist studio that I was aware of doing this was Klasky-Csupo. Since then, all others followed suit. Imagine hiring an animator or director and administering a "test" when that animator or director already had credentials and a show reel to substantiate his/her qualifications.
Again, the people hiring do not know the business they are in, and do not necessarily know the qualified people in it. That's why they "test" their professionalism, and sad thing is that these are the people in the position to
control the careers of others. Thank goodness the veterans such as Irv Spector were still recognized without having to go through such "auditions."[/QUOTE]

Hi Ray,

Rudy Zamora and my father actually knew each other for a good long time in the industry. Whenever I heard my father mentioned his name he always spoke extremely warm and fond about him.

Your "Why aren't they teaching us anything?" pleapreceded my father's relating me his own story by a few years. I can't remember the young animator's name, but I'm pretty sure it was Rick or Rich and I know he was of Native American ancestry...and his last name reflected that. No idea if he remained in the industry.

While it's true that "thank goodness the veterans such as Irv Spector were still recognized without having to go through such "auditions," that is only about not having to prove himself in the pathetic ways in which you described. In the 70's he was still facing seasonal layoffs and always needed to call around for work. He mentioned more than once that in every show he couldn't stand it when a character said "Seize them!", and then I started hearing that line in practically every single show!...for years! When I say he was disenchanted is to say the least. He took several obscure animation industry jobs outside the LA area...they did not always pan out well. However, he was then offered a teaching position (animation) at MIT. He was absolutely ecstatic about the prospect of moving to Boston and getting out of LA and that whole scene. The day before he was to leave he received a call that the funding for the position had fallen through. You can guess how demoraliziing that was.

[J Lee]

Thanks for your feedback and perspective. I'm sure you're correct about the M. Renoir name. I'm also sure I have his boards -- pretty much complete for one if not both of "L'Amour the Merrier" and "La Petite Parade." They're quite nice. Not just lead pencil but in grease pencil, perhaps a little color in parts. He also did a Modern Madcap (I think it was MM) matchmaker story titled "Galaxia" and I think that's where I got the name Boris. His name might be Boris in that one. It's about a robotic looking spaceman who comes to Earth and keeps falling in love with machines, a gumball machine, then a juke box...etc. -- the matchmaker tries to hook him up with them. Whether anyone likes this story/cartoon or not I can tell you that it's a really nice example of a storyboard. He threw in more color than you ever see in these things and many camera directions and shots. If you saw it in its entirety it almost directs itself. It looks and reads as if it leapt out from him almost wholly formed. This might be in line with what you mentioned ... "As is the case with most of the post-1956 Paramount shorts, the story is more important than the (limited) animation, so Spector and anyone else who worked on the script deserve the bulk of the credit for its success." I know my quoting you on that comes across as a shameless plug, but you have a good take on his work in that little period there and it's subsequent evolution through the sixties (although he was probably more confined in the later half of the 60's as to what he could write.) As a matter of fact I know he got a personal kick out of them. And, as it turns out I happen to have 8 or 10 of these sheets already scanned and will gladly put them online if you or anyone else is interested.

It would be great if you could post those, HBE. Really, the 1950-66 period of Famous/Paramount has gotten little attention over the years, either in terms of reviewing the cartoons coming out of the studio or the artifacts, such as storyboards from that period. The basic explanation is that the studio's cartoons were repititious and not worth much of any recognition, and while the early-50s cartoons featuring recurring characters certainly did repeat the same stories, the storywork improved in the later part of the decade, even while the animation went downhill, and the one-shot Noveltoons of the mid-50s that your dad did story work on before the animation cutbacks hit, like "Fido Beta Kappa" or "Sir Irving and Jeames" are worth a second look (and while you'r probably too young to have any direct memories, I'd love to hear the background story on how "Chew Chew Baby" was made at the time it was. Funny cartoon and original premise for 1958, but wildly un-PC, even for that time).

[HisBoyElroy]

I'm definatly interested in checking out the Ant and the Aardvark model sheets.

There were some models of Aardvark in the PP book Jerry Beck wrote. Let's just say Aardvark originally looked like Terrytoons' Sidney the Elephant.

Attached files as requested:
Aardvark model sheet
Ant model sheet

Bonus files:
animation timing sheet
Lorax script cover.

Nothing more boring than the cover page of a script. However, I tossed this in for those DFE addicts ;) who must have everything, e.g., the sticker on the lower right that says:
DFE --- films
DESIGN IN MOTION

[cbrubaker]

Attached files as requested:
Aardvark model sheet
Ant model sheet

Bonus files:
animation timing sheet
Lorax script cover.

Nothing more boring than the cover page of a script. However, I tossed this in for those DFE addicts ;) who must have everything, e.g., the sticker on the lower right that says:
DFE --- films
DESIGN IN MOTION
Say! I have that bumper in the timing sheet! I didn't know your dad directed it.
Neat files. Thanks for sharing it with us.

[HisBoyElroy]

It would be great if you could post those, HBE. Really, the 1950-66 period of Famous/Paramount has gotten little attention over the years, either in terms of reviewing the cartoons coming out of the studio or the artifacts, such as storyboards from that period. The basic explanation is that the studio's cartoons were repititious and not worth much of any recognition, and while the early-50s cartoons featuring recurring characters certainly did repeat the same stories, the storywork improved in the later part of the decade, even while the animation went downhill, and the one-shot Noveltoons of the mid-50s that your dad did story work on before the animation cutbacks hit, like "Fido Beta Kappa" or "Sir Irving and Jeames" are worth a second look (and while you'r probably too young to have any direct memories, I'd love to hear the background story on how "Chew Chew Baby" was made at the time it was. Funny cartoon and original premise for 1958, but wildly un-PC, even for that time).

Unfortunately I don't have alot of those -- especially early and mid-fifties, but attached is the start of what I do have. I'm pretty sure these boards are from L'Amour the Merrier. The production number is on the title page.

You know the first I heard of the controversy surrounding Chew Chew Baby was only when I began searching the Net not too long ago. Ergo, he never mentioned it. Was the censorship a big deal at the time? He was cranking the stuff out and wanting to get paid. My father was not salaried with them during this period -- he got paid per cartoon, depending upon what type of work he did on them. And it was not necessarily only story. I'll elaborate on that in another post if you like these.

Nonetheless, even if I don't have Chew Chew Baby I did find an ersatz model sheet of a Pygmy in the vicinity of all this work. File attached -- let me know if this is the same pygmy. On the subject of pygmies, he did incorporate one in several other cartoons during his career. Don't ask what his fascination was with them -- I dunno -- maybe he just thought the idea of them suited cartoons. Makes sense to me.

[HisBoyElroy]

L'Amour the Merrier part 2 attached.

[JERRY BECK]

However, if there's any interest I could post about who in the animation industry crowd my father and my family hung out with

Anything you can tell us about your dad's comic book work? Didn't he draw the MUGGY-DOO BOY CAT comic book for Hal Seegar?

[Thad]

Wow, thanks for sharing those with us! I have NEVER seen storyboards from a Famous cartoon, so they were certainly interesting!

-Thad

[HisBoyElroy]

Wow, thanks for sharing those with us! I have NEVER seen storyboards from a Famous cartoon, so they were certainly interesting!

-Thad

I appreciate the feedback. My pleasure to put them online, as they do no good sitting in a box.

[HisBoyElroy]

Say! I have that bumper in the timing sheet! I didn't know your dad directed it.
Neat files. Thanks for sharing it with us.

Glad to share and glad you liked them.
BTW - re the directing. He may not have been credited for direction on the final product, someone would have to check the final credits. Uncredited work is not as unusual as you might think, especially from that era (I don't know about the current era.) This would have been more true with "old timers" who had worked in so many aspects of the animation industry over the decades. Some of them had just done alot of those various tasks. In my father's case, he started in the industry at 16-17 years of age, in 1930. He'd already spent many years animating, writing, storyboarding, directing, layout, etc. Sometimes a good storyboarder's storyboard almost directs itself, or at least makes it alot easier for the actual director.
Uncredited work is a topic in itself, probably better suited for a different forum/thread.

[Ray Pointer]

While it's true that "thank goodness the veterans such as Irv Spector were still recognized without having to go through such "auditions," that is only about not having to prove himself in the pathetic ways in which you described. In the 70's he was still facing seasonal layoffs and always needed to call around for work...
When I say he was disenchanted is to say the least. He took several obscure animation industry jobs outside the LA area...they did not always pan out well. However, he was then offered a teaching position (animation) at MIT. He was absolutely ecstatic about the prospect of moving to Boston and getting out of LA and that whole scene. The day before he was to leave he received a call that the funding for the position had fallen through. You can guess how demoraliziing that was.[/QUOTE]

This story continues. Sounds almost identical to my own experiences.:( :D

[cbrubaker]

Glad to share and glad you liked them.
BTW - re the directing. He may not have been credited for direction on the final product, someone would have to check the final credits. Uncredited work is not as unusual as you might think, especially from that era (I don't know about the current era.) This would have been more true with "old timers" who had worked in so many aspects of the animation industry over the decades. Some of them had just done alot of those various tasks. In my father's case, he started in the industry at 16-17 years of age, in 1930. He'd already spent many years animating, writing, storyboarding, directing, layout, etc. Sometimes a good storyboarder's storyboard almost directs itself, or at least makes it alot easier for the actual director.
Uncredited work is a topic in itself, probably better suited for a different forum/thread.
Obviously, bumpers have no credits. However, in the end credit for "The New Pink Panther Show" may list your dad somewhere. But I don't have the credits, so I won't know for now.

[Studio Toledo]

"Why aren't they teaching us anything?" Those were my exact words to Rudy Zamora, Jr. when I got my first job 38 years ago at Jam Handy. My furstration was that I had read everything available about the technical aspects, which I had a grasp of. It was the nuances of animating that I was eager to learn. And the level of work being done did not really teach me much more than what I'd picked on my own making my own films up to that point.

Makes a great line for opening a book on the animation industry of today! I actually wanted to write a book like this personally, and had a rather clever title for it someone blurted once on Usenet, "McAnimation!" It sums up my disgust with where it's going.

This was the age-old problem with the industry. For a generation, it did little or nothing to prepare a new wave of people until the sudden floodgates burst open starting in the late 1980s inspired by the sucess of non Disney features such as AN AMERICAN TAIL. As the attention for quality animation shifted towards features, television work was left wide open on an expanded level.
To fill the requirements for staffing the production positions, the studios recruited students from CalArts, Parsons, and Art Center. As an extension of the school experience, the process of "testing" and portfolio "grading" became part of the qualification process. The fist studio that I was aware of doing this was Klasky-Csupo. Since then, all others followed suit. Imagine hiring an animator or director and administering a "test" when that animator or director already had credentials and a show reel to substantiate his/her qualifications.
Again, the people hiring do not know the business they are in, and do not necessarily know the qualified people in it. That's why they "test" their professionalism, and sad thing is that these are the people in the position to
control the careers of others. Thank goodness the veterans such as Irv Spector were still recognized without having to go through such "auditions."

Probably why I'd rather stay indie myself if I ever get into it.

[Studio Toledo]

Say! I have that bumper in the timing sheet! I didn't know your dad directed it.
Neat files. Thanks for sharing it with us.

I was a bit amused to see those! Never believe much of that exists beyond the production run.

[Studio Toledo]

Wow, thanks for sharing those with us! I have NEVER seen storyboards from a Famous cartoon, so they were certainly interesting!

-Thad

I was impressed with seeing that. Makes me wish to see that film in action now!

[HisBoyElroy]

I was impressed with seeing that. Makes me wish to see that film in action now!

Makes me want to see it in action too! I can't seem to find the stuff on DVD. I read somewhere online that Viacom(?) owns the old Paramount/Famous stuff. I also came across someone online who has DVDs for sale of the Harveyshow that was -- or is it still? -- on cable. One had his cartoon "Galaxia" on it. Any idea about these DVDs? Homemade? Legal? Quality? About a dozen or so years ago I bought a handful of 99cent VHS on a hunch and found some of his Little Lulus. Mediocre quality to say the least, and not really the cartoons I'm look for (not that I'm arguing.)

Another reason I ask is that my own 10-year-old son, who never knew my father, now knows him only through his work. Who would have thought that Scooby Doo would be bigger now than it was 30 years ago!? The kid's ecstatic -- the grandfather is probably rolling over.

[HisBoyElroy]

I was a bit amused to see those! Never believe much of that exists beyond the production run.

I don't have much. Pieces of this and that from here and there. Not alot that's complete.

[HisBoyElroy]

Anything you can tell us about your dad's comic book work? Didn't he draw the MUGGY-DOO BOY CAT comic book for Hal Seegar?

Jerry,
My dad's comic book career is one of the least known aspects, along with his pre-Fleisher days, of his career - particularly to myself! He started doing comics from after WWII to about the mid-fifties, and it was mainly to support his "habit", the Sunday comic strip "Coogy", which appeared in the Herald-Tribune (he loved that strip, now virtually unknown and unresearchable except on microfilm at the main branch of the NYC library and the tons of originals in my possession.) Of course he did all those Paramount/Famous cartoons in the 50's that you're aware of...but my feeling is that if he could have made the same kind of money from the strip that he did by supplementing it with comic books and animated cartoons he would have. I am probably stating the idea of "supplementing" backwards, as the non-Coogy work was the bread and butter.
Be that as it may, he built up a body of comic book work. He mentioned Muggy Doo to me in particular, however, so appearantly he must have liked his work in that particular title. I have one somewhere, and the covers from a couple of other titles. Also, he did some Donald Duck comics somewhere after the mid-60' (Huey, Dewey and Louie anyone?). I have some roughs of those.
These days those old comic books have somewhat of a cult following.
It's my own opinion that they contain much of the nutty silly wackyness that you might associate with his animation industry work of that era. Some of that is in the dialogue but a lot of it is in the drawings -- I think it's the artist with an animation background that people might be drawn too. All you need is an inbetweener to finish the job. Plus when you see them it seems he never met a right-angle that he liked (i.e., I can't find any.) He uses an interestingly warped perspective in many of the backgrounds.
Lucky Duck is another favorite title of admirers of his comic work.

Speaking of admirer's of his comic work, Scott Shaw's Oddball Comics column can give you more info than I have. He's a fanatic.

He's a link. If you search by his name there you'll find others, although some may be archived.
http://www.comicbookresources.com/columns/oddball/index.cgi?date=2002-04-30

Also, he did work for Timely Publications. I recently came upon this, which mentions him in passing:
A Timely Talk with Allen Bellman
http://www.comicartville.com/bellmanpg2.htm

[Studio Toledo]

Makes me want to see it in action too! I can't seem to find the stuff on DVD. I read somewhere online that Viacom(?) owns the old Paramount/Famous stuff.

I think technically, they own the remnants of Republic Entertainment's NTA library of the Fleischer/Famous cartoons up to 1950 (excluding the Popeye's and Superman's), and the Paramount cartoons produced after 1962. Classic Media owns the 1950's cartoons featuring Casper, Baby Huey, Little Audrey, Noveltoons, etc, from 1950-62 or so (formerally through Harvey Comics).

I also came across someone online who has DVDs for sale of the Harveyshow that was -- or is it still? -- on cable.

I think Boomerang had been airing it at some point ago. Didn't record it then, but I rather disfavor the presentation personally. Rather they were more like the way I had saw them back with the old "Harvey Films" openings that would splice inbetween the credits and the static frame that shows their copyright int he blackened banner (of course if it had been digitally touched up in the best possible way without breaking out of the sequence, I wouldn't mind that either)! I miss that somehow, yet I rarely saw many of them in my childhood. Of course to want that, I'd have to man a letter-writing campaign to Classic Media for some sort of Harveytoons DVD box set if one could be conceieved at all. I just don't have the strength to bother even wanting to write hundreds of letters under assumed names to get my word out (reading too many of Evan Dorkin's "Eltingville" stories)! I'd rather they just sell that collection back to Paramount anyway, then they can fill in some more gaps in their archive!

One had his cartoon "Galaxia" on it. Any idea about these DVDs? Homemade? Legal? Quality?

They're bootlegs, trust me! I've been there before and back! I only think it's worth it if they were taken from old 16mm prints anyway (mainly for the nostalgia of it all).

About a dozen or so years ago I bought a handful of 99cent VHS on a hunch and found some of his Little Lulus. Mediocre quality to say the least, and not really the cartoons I'm look for (not that I'm arguing.)

It's what you can expect from those tapes, and even the DVDs you might find at Wal-Mart are the same way too. Too often the source material can come from anywhere, like some guy's 16mm collection to other PD tapes (like Steve's that got used up the wazoo). I was bugged noticing the "Cartoon Craze" DVDs at Wal-Mart that somehow have a few foreign/indie shorts sprinkled inbetween the Golden Age classics, so it seemed awkward for me to see a Bruno Bozzetto "Mr. Rossi" short suddenly pop up after four Bosko shorts and several Noveltoons that follow. Other shorts I've noticed included some of the Hubley's Oscar wins like "Moonbird" that gets seen in such fair quailty on these discs. It's as if these jerks go to some Public Library book sale and had a deal buying out their 16mm collection (giving where most of these films usually got seen in).

Of Harvey Film's aquisition, it seemed like only a few of those cartoons had slipped into Public Dormain such as "Boo Moon" and "Pest Pupil."

The only tape I found of some Little Lulu cartoons I was satisfied with was one that was released by NTA back in the '80s when they were still around, albeit, hainging on a thread. (at least a more official release than those PD companies can offer)

Another reason I ask is that my own 10-year-old son, who never knew my father, now knows him only through his work. Who would have thought that Scooby Doo would be bigger now than it was 30 years ago!? The kid's ecstatic -- the grandfather is probably rolling over.

I wish I knew someone in my family who was in the animation biz in his/her life. Best I have is a cousin who appeared in a made-for-tv Heidi movie alongside Burl Ives. This film since found it's way into Public Dormain territory for years.

[Studio Toledo]

I don't have much. Pieces of this and that from here and there. Not alot that's complete.

Still, it's great you do have 'em! I only wish I could collect more artwork/notes of that period for my collection.

[cbrubaker]

Since were in the subject of Spector, here's his IMDB profile.

http://imdb.com/name/nm0817476/

Keep in mind that this is very incomplete. It doesn't list ALL the titles he was credited in, and are missing his personal bio (ie: date of birth/death, birth name, etc.)

HisBoyElroy, I recommend registering IMDB and add more stuff about him, including missing titles.

[HisBoyElroy]

Since were in the subject of Spector, here's his IMDB profile.
http://imdb.com/name/nm0817476/
Keep in mind that this is very incomplete. It doesn't list ALL the titles he was credited in, and are missing his personal bio (ie: date of birth/death, birth name, etc.)
HisBoyElroy, I recommend registering IMDB and add more stuff about him, including missing titles.

Thanks for that. I sincerely appreciate your effort...I only wish I appreciated my own effort just as much. A few of years ago I went around the Net attempting to "correct" some misinformation about him that was cropping up. Somehow, the more I did that, the more other inaccuracies seemed to exponentially spring up at other and later websites. Not all of them, but just enough to keep me chasing the carrot.
BEWARE: I FEEL A LONG PHILOSPHICAL B.S.-ing PARAGRAPH AHEAD
Like everyone, including myself, people mean well and do the best they can, and sometimes make errors. Conversely and just as important, I have also found out, learned, and cleared up a few gray areas that I myself had. So, it flows both ways. But on my part the task was/is endless and it didn't take long to realize it was going to be impossible to be some eternal keeper of some eternal flame. There are those who actually do that professionally and others who do it as a passion (or obsession!) I probably tend to pick my spots and was just Googling and then surfing through the TTTP when his name caught my eye. I dropped a reply to a post which begat nice responses such as your own, and here we are. You and others here are the Keepers of the Flame whether you know it or not. I don't mean to be overly schmaltzy-waltzy sentimentaltzy but I think it's true. Can't help but do it, I'll bet. It might seem hard to believe that I came here with any other intention but to tout his wares and wave his flag, but it was the responses and interests here that set that off in me: I only happen to be his son, have some of his work, and know some things about him. Glad to share it here and equally glad to learn here too. Trust me on that.

And now having said all that I am going to totally contradict myself by most likely going over to the IMDB and kicking them square in the arse for putting that nonsense up there. Thanks for the link. Irv Spector died in the late 70's -- so how the hell is he getting credits in the 80's and 90's!?!? (His posthumous output is often cited as his best). My favorite there is That's Warner Bros! (1996) because we all know what a lifelong Warner's guy he was!:tweety: Who can't enjoy and get a real honest laugh at that? I might even leave it there.

[cbrubaker]

"That's Warner Bros." and other titles from post 1980s are compliation shows that aired "Corn on the Cop". So they just listed any directors for shorts that appeared in the show, whether the person is dead or not.

[HisBoyElroy]

"That's Warner Bros." and other titles from post 1980s are compliation shows that aired "Corn on the Cop". So they just listed any directors for shorts that appeared in the show, whether the person is dead or not.

Thanks. I figured something like that. Strange impression though, and Corn on the Cop is usually cited in Worst 10 lists. Was That Warner Bros? If Gertie the Dinosaur got put on a compilation tomorrow I'd think ol' Windsor was still at large.

[J Lee]

Unfortunately I don't have alot of those -- especially early and mid-fifties, but attached is the start of what I do have. I'm pretty sure these boards are from L'Amour the Merrier. The production number is on the title page.

You know the first I heard of the controversy surrounding Chew Chew Baby was only when I began searching the Net not too long ago. Ergo, he never mentioned it. Was the censorship a big deal at the time? He was cranking the stuff out and wanting to get paid. My father was not salaried with them during this period -- he got paid per cartoon, depending upon what type of work he did on them. And it was not necessarily only story. I'll elaborate on that in another post if you like these.

Nonetheless, even if I don't have Chew Chew Baby I did find an ersatz model sheet of a Pygmy in the vicinity of all this work. File attached -- let me know if this is the same pygmy. On the subject of pygmies, he did incorporate one in several other cartoons during his career. Don't ask what his fascination was with them -- I dunno -- maybe he just thought the idea of them suited cartoons. Makes sense to me.

Sorry for the delay in replying -- yes, that is the cannibal who terrorized Cincinnati in your dad's cartoon. ;) It earned it's infamy in going almost immediately from release to being banned when the Harvey TV package went into sydication (WNEW in New York got the package in the fall of 1962 and never aired that short, though other stations in less politically correct parts of the country apparently did).

My suspicion is that since New York station WPIX had begun airing the Hal Roach "Our Gang" comedies by 1958 and that the cannibal-themed "The Kid From Borneo" was among the favorites of the viewers, that may have been the inspiration source for "Chew Chew Baby" (the main difference being Spanky and the gang don't get eaten in the Roach short). Maybe if Ch. 11 had bought the Harveytoons package, the short would have run at least into the late 1960s, since WPIX was always the less PC station of the two biggest independents in NYC.

(The one thing I should not about your dad's 1950s-60s storywork at Paramount, as compared to a lot of the other stories that came out of there from the late 40s onward is that he seems to have been writing to entertain himself, as well as the audience, which is what the writers at Warners were most famous for and a large reason why those cartoons hold up half a century later. Too many of the stories at Famous/Paramount seem to be written down to a lower level, as if the writers, head aminations and directors don't paricularly find anything that funny/interesting about it, but hope the younger kids, or someone in the audience will. If you create stuff that in the end you don't think is interesting, odds are the audience is going to agree with you when it goes up on screen.)

[Studio Toledo]

Sorry for the delay in replying -- yes, that is the cannibal who terrorized Cincinnati in your dad's cartoon. ;)

Hey, it could've been anyone's town, even Toledo!

It earned it's infamy in going almost immediately from release to being banned when the Harvey TV package went into sydication (WNEW in New York got the package in the fall of 1962 and never aired that short, though other stations in less politically correct parts of the country apparently did).

Wonder if Cincinnatti got it? :p

My suspicion is that since New York station WPIX had begun airing the Hal Roach "Our Gang" comedies by 1958 and that the cannibal-themed "The Kid From Borneo" was among the favorites of the viewers, that may have been the inspiration source for "Chew Chew Baby" (the main difference being Spanky and the gang don't get eaten in the Roach short). Maybe if Ch. 11 had bought the Harveytoons package, the short would have run at least into the late 1960s, since WPIX was always the less PC station of the two biggest independents in NYC.

(The one thing I should not about your dad's 1950s-60s storywork at Paramount, as compared to a lot of the other stories that came out of there from the late 40s onward is that he seems to have been writing to entertain himself, as well as the audience, which is what the writers at Warners were most famous for and a large reason why those cartoons hold up half a century later. Too many of the stories at Famous/Paramount seem to be written down to a lower level, as if the writers, head aminations and directors don't paricularly find anything that funny/interesting about it, but hope the younger kids, or someone in the audience will. If you create stuff that in the end you don't think is interesting, odds are the audience is going to agree with you when it goes up on screen.)

That's something to be thankful for then. I only wish I knew more about Irv's writing from those cartoons, but do remember spotting his name elsewhere like for storyboarding "The Lorax".

[Thad]

Hey, I thought it'd be fun to look at all of your dad's credits at Famous Studios... He seemed to have less duties than the rest of the staff, which was a GOOD thing because he didn't burn through good ideas really quickly. I was surprised at how many of my personal favorite Famous shorts he wrote! Anyway here's a listing...

Animation:
Winter Draws On
Sing or Swim
Butterscotch and Soda
Camptown Races
Gobs of Fun
The Shoe Must Go On
Turning the Fables
In the Nicotine
Bopin' Hood
Cane and Able
T.V. or No T.V.

Story:
Slip Us Some Redskin
Punch and Judo
By Leaps and Hounds
Friend or Phony
Shuteye Popeye
Mice-Capades
Hysterical History
Ancient Fistory
Winner by a Hare
Aero-Nutics
Better Bait Than Never
No Place Like Rome
Hair Today, Gone Tomorrow
Taxi-Turvy
Fido Beta Kappa
No If's, And's, or Butt's
Sir Irving and Jeames
L'Amour the Merrier
Grateful Gus
Finnegan's Flea
Chew Chew Baby
La Petite Parade
Spooking of Ghosts
Top Cat
The Robot Ringer (last of his credits at Famous)

Story & Animation:
Galaxia
Cool Cat Blues
The Inquist Visit
The Plot Sickens
Crumley Cogwell

Animation Design:
Abner the Baseball

-Thad

[Thad]

And hey, CORN ON THE COP isn't a total loss... We find out Granny's last name is Webster! And at least your dad used a character besides Daffy, Speedy, or the Road Runner (Porky Pig in this case), something that nobody else attempted during those later years.

-Thad

[J Lee]

My problem with "Corn on the Cop" actually deals more with the use of Porky within the story than the animation/direction, given the limited budgets Warners allowed D-FE to work with.

Freleng never really did a Daffy-Porky "buddy" cartoon in the way that Jones or even McKimson did in the 1950s, and in those situations Porky becomes both the audience's surrogate for watching Daffy make his mistakes, and almost as invincible as Bugs or the Road Runner within that cartoon, because all of the story's indignities are turned onto Daffy. In "Corn on the Cop" there are some scenes where Porky is just dumb, which worked in the 40s-50s cartoons where Daffy was Porky's advisary/dupe, but doesn't work when he's his partner. The duck should self-distruct on his own, not with the help of the pig pulling nails out of the boards and sabotaging Daffy's scheme. It's something a first-time Warners director might miss, in the way that Rudy Larriva never fully figured out Jones' Road Runner-Coyote, but as the cartoon's writer, Freleng should have known better.

[Thad]

My problem with "Corn on the Cop" actually deals more with the use of Porky within the story than the animation/direction, given the limited budgets Warners allowed D-FE to work with.

I would have gotten to that, but you did it for me! If you got rid of the bridge of boards rehash from TREE-CORNERED TWEETY, you'd have a decent Porky/Daffy effort, in all honesty.

-Thad

[Sogturtle]

Charles and HisBoyElroy~

As regards credits at DePatie-Freleng... I went back and double checked the final two Pink Panther series, "The Think Pink Panther Show" and "The All New Pink Panther Show" (1978)... And neither one credit Irv Spector for directing, or strangely enough, for anything at all :eek: . Very sad.

[cbrubaker]

Charles and HisBoyElroy~

As regards credits at DePatie-Freleng... I went back and double checked the final two Pink Panther series, "The Think Pink Panther Show" and "The All New Pink Panther Show" (1978)... And neither one credit Irv Spector for directing, or strangely enough, for anything at all :eek: . Very sad.

What about the "New Pink Panther Show"? And no, not to be confused with the "ALL New Pink Panther Show". "The New Pink Panther Show" is the one with "Ant and the Aardvark" replacing "The Inspector".

Also, what about the credits for "The Pink Panther Meets the Ant and the Aardvark"?

[HisBoyElroy]

The one thing I should not about your dad's 1950s-60s storywork at Paramount, as compared to a lot of the other stories that came out of there from the late 40s onward is that he seems to have been writing to entertain himself, as well as the audience, which is what the writers at Warners were most famous for and a large reason why those cartoons hold up half a century later. Too many of the stories at Famous/Paramount seem to be written down to a lower level, as if the writers, head aminations and directors don't paricularly find anything that funny/interesting about it, but hope the younger kids, or someone in the audience will. If you create stuff that in the end you don't think is interesting, odds are the audience is going to agree with you when it goes up on screen.

Excellent take on it. That's pretty right on about whom he was writing to entertain. Much of that philosophical slant on writing came out of his aforementioned Sunday comic strip. The seeds were already there but it developed through those years. I can't really say for sure it was anything he verbalized in quite those words, but he was always into giving more credit to the audience in respect to what they could handle. Plus, it pleased (re your quote "entertain" him.) Basically, he wrote what he felt was right, right for him as well. Curiously, I wonder why he got away with it more in the animation than he did in the strip?
BTW -- the rumor is that Kreutzman asked him to come join MAD in it's early stages. That would fit into this line of thinking.

[HisBoyElroy]

Hey, I thought it'd be fun to look at all of your dad's credits at Famous Studios... He seemed to have less duties than the rest of the staff, which was a GOOD thing because he didn't burn through good ideas really quickly. I was surprised at how many of my personal favorite Famous shorts he wrote!
-Thad

Wow Thad!! You must have been eavesdropping on my holiday wishlist thoughts. I was wondering how I was going to go about compiling it -- a list, that is, realistically. Thanksabunch!

Re having less duties than the rest of the staff. He was not staff. He was freelance, per-job basis, as he was doing his Sunday strip and comic books in the first half of the fifties and continued freelancing after the strip and comic books faded into the sunset. (By the way, he wrote humor for some Men's magazines during the second half of the 50's...There! I've said it! I feel better now.)

Re Burning through ideas...or not. He wasn't beyond recycling, at least characters and theme. At least in one instance, Galaxia, he used the matchmaker and matchmaker theme as he had in L'Amour the Merrier. I realize now that that's why I called the Matchmaker "Boris" in a post several days ago. You'll see as going to post them up right this moment (probably take two moments as there's more than five files.) Don't forget to scroll as some of these are two sheets scanned into a single jpg. Enjoy.

[HisBoyElroy]

Galaxia Post 2

[HisBoyElroy]

Galaxia Post 3

Sorry, filename 5 on this should have been near the beginning of the first post in this series.

[HisBoyElroy]

Galaxia Post 3

Sorry, I messed up some of the ordering within the three posts. Please use your the sequential cognitive processes or the actual numbers written on the sheets. or, right click and save and reorder it in your favorite slideshow software.

[HisBoyElroy]

Charles and HisBoyElroy~

As regards credits at DePatie-Freleng... I went back and double checked the final two Pink Panther series, "The Think Pink Panther Show" and "The All New Pink Panther Show" (1978)... And neither one credit Irv Spector for directing, or strangely enough, for anything at all :eek: . Very sad.

Awww, well credit, miscredit and lack of credit started way before he came along and certainly continued (and still continues) after he departed. Speaking of departing, he departed this world before 1978. Would have been a neat trick on the credits, unless the "All New" on in the title contained earlier work.

[cbrubaker]

Awww, well credit, miscredit and lack of credit started way before he came along and certainly continued (and still continues) after he departed. Speaking of departing, he departed this world before 1978. Would have been a neat trick on the credits, unless the "All New" on in the title contained earlier work.
No. "The All New Pink Panther Show" contains new, made-for-TV "Pink Panther" shorts, along with "Crazylegs Crane", which was a spinoff from "Tijuana Toads". (BTW, what date and year did your dad died?)

Tim C, you should check through credits for "The New Pink Panther Show" (NOT to be confused with "All New Pink..."), and "The Pink Panther Meets the Ant and the Aardvark".

[Sogturtle]

Awww, well credit, miscredit and lack of credit started way before he came along and certainly continued (and still continues) after he departed. Speaking of departing, he departed this world before 1978. Would have been a neat trick on the credits, unless the "All New" on in the title contained earlier work.

HisBoyElroy~

Welllll I know your dad died in early 1977, so he probably wouldn't have had anything to do with the 1978 title (can't remember if any pre-'77 titles turned up on it). But the earlier "Think Pink..." show was a scaled down version of the earlier NBC Panther shows and included the various "bumpers" (connecting footage) as you showed that he had directed on...

Additionally, I did go through my records and double-checked all of the other DePatie-Freleng TV series that I have credits for (essentially complete I believe except for "Bailey's Comets", and I'll need to run a 16mm print for another series where I have partial written credits.). Sadly his name doesn't turn up on any of them.:(

Charles~

And noooo I didn't confuse "The New Pink Panther Show" with the "All New Pink Panther Show":). I couldn't remember whether a single pre-'77 title was included or not (as I said up above).