How do you store your 16MMs?

[Thad]

I know a lot of the people on this board collect 16MM film, so I'm just curious... On what size reels do you store your film on?

I personally put all my shorts on individual 400 foot reels. I know it takes up about 4-5 times as much closet space, but it's worth it in the long run, making it easier for viewing a specific short or preserving them longer (I read that the deterioration of one film stock can drastically affect another on the same reel).

-Thad

[Tom Stathes]

400' reels are my ideal terms of storage as well. I DO have around 80 or so either loose or in cans, but if I stored all of my films as such I'd have more of a storage problem than I already do. Some subjects which I have in large quantities (i.e. TerryToons, Aesop's Fables, Krazy Kat) I keep on 1200' and 1600' reels just to keep them out of the way. In other cases, when more than one subject will fit on a 400' reel, I'll combine them. For instance, I have many reels with four 100' silent cartoons or combinations of odd lengths such as 25', 50', and 200'.
-Tom

[Ray Pointer]

How does one "store" 16mm films? With secrecy.:tweety:

[detroittvguy]

Throw your film cans away! Safety film needs to breathe. Keeping them in cans and in a hot environment promotes Vinegar Syndrome, which will eventually make your films unprojectable. I've lost a few films to VS.

[Tom Stathes]

How does one "store" 16mm films? With secrecy.:tweety:
Mixed feelings here, Ray. I can understand both sides of that statement- although I know I'd want to be relieved in knowing that a certain title exists somewhere, I can also understand not wanting the "wrong" people to know what you or I have. A gray area, that's for sure.

As for cans, it's in my opinion the environment. Any hot environment is not good for films, so as long as that's being avoided film cans should be ok. I certainly like them! Bare reels? :o

-Tom

[detroittvguy]

Tom,

Film needs to breathe, my friend. It can't in air tight cans. If you don't believe me, do a search on the web.

I've been collecting 16mm for 35+ years and have lost quite a few films to VS. Since nearly all 16mm film now is "old," you really don't know the storage history of any print that you acquire.

If you must keep your film in cans, air them out by running them on a projector or through a couple of rewinds at least every six months. Rows of cans are pretty, but I'd rather have healthy, happy prints.

[Tom Stathes]

Hi there,

I'm basically on the same page with you now. Incidentally, I do run nearly all of them from time to time or also air them out, because I do know the negative effects of keeping them closed for long periods of time. I once got a very rare 8mm film that had been in a taped up can for some 40 years, and I'm lucky I can still hardly use it. Kodascopes for instance stay fine in their cans, but those were on a different stock (diacetate?) I've also found that any film that been in a can with a vent (up to 70 years old) stays nice.
Thanks for the tips.
Tom:bosko:

[Nelson]

Same here, as I store my 16mm prints on 400 foot plastic reels.

[cpdavison]

I've always stored my films on reels, in cans. Metal or plastic? I used whatever came with the original film! I did once buy a big box of plastic 400' reels direct from Taylor Reel for some of my cartoons that didn't have cans. Dust is a big enemy, too.

The only vinegar syndrome print I've ever had came that way from Blackhawk Films - it was a used Encyclopaedia Britanica short! This was so long ago (back in the 80s) that the term "vinegar syndrome" wasn't even in broad use, if in use at all. All I know is that it was warped, the color had turned red and it smelled like a bag of "salt 'n' vinegar" potato chips. I ultimately got rid of it.

[Ray Pointer]

You realize this is all a big conspiracy to promote the use of DVDs and forever eliminate film as a "collectable" item, don't you? But the we don't know what the long term survivial is for DVDs since they have not beeen around as long as film. There are already stories about DVD rot with discs a few months old. Oh, how I hate this new medium! :bosko: (wink-wink, snicker, titter!)

[Tom Stathes]

Absolutely, Ray.:)
Folks have said that film outlasts all formats as long as it's kept well- and I can believe that. Video tape degrades because of natural magnetic forces and we can't stop that. Digital formats come and go....yet, film and projectors don't change!
I only use modern formats because of the cost effectiveness and general ease in collecting and circulating- but if conditions were more ideal, I'd be soleley a film print collector.
-Tom

[kurt komit]

I store mine on plastic 400 ft. reels (one is on a metal reel). This makes it easier if you want to watch just a single cartoon. I keep the reels in a trunk in the basement, which keeps the dust off of them.

[Cool Cat]

I don't have any 16mm reels, but I have some super8 reels. I store the film in the original reels wich they are in cardbox or plastic box. For me storing reels in cardboxes is better than plastic boxes. Because chimical things of plastic boxes could damage colour prints, and colours should being red.

Anyway, I prefer to store my reels in places where the temperature is not over 20 C°.

[ThePeterNetwork]

If I could go off topic for just a few breif moments...

I was recently at the Museum of the Moving Image in Astoria, and they had an exhibit on the history of motion picture and how cameras and projectors and film worked, and reading how you guys have 16mm prints of films in your possession made me think of how neat it would be to watch films as they should be originally presented, be they animated or liveaction, silents or sounds.

I have a pokey little 8mm/S8 projector and accompanying film camera that I used for my film class in college, which has been replaced by a digital video camcorder and non-linear editing setup to burn footage to DVD (which BTW does not play in my family player :(). I would love to backtrack to the point where I could collect 16mm projectionable film and the accompanying equipment with which to show such treasures of motion pictures, but alas, it is a relatively expensive hobby with nowhere to store the film reels.

Anybody have any tips?

[Tom Stathes]

Hey ThePeterNetwork,

I'm not sure I have a solution for you....but to possibly "whet your appetite", there may be a time in the near future where I, in conjunction with someone else, may be able to screen 16mm prints. I certainly hope this can come into fruition! People need to see these silents projected.
-Tom

[BillC]

I have a home theater in my attick across from the projector room
I have my media library room where I store my films upright
as to not crush the reels laying them flat and all are stored in racks
now what I've started doing is matching up cartoons by charictor
on one 600 foot reel I have "you don;t know what your Doin" and "hitten the Trail for HALLElulujah Land" on a slightly larger reel I've placed
"lady play your mandoline", "Smile darn ya smile", & "one more time"
for sniffles I have 3 cartoons per reel on 4, 1200 reels.
I realy enjoy watching the charictors of a particular series play back to back
and in some cases you can also see charactor development as each cartoon progresses in the series. This also saves me space.

My home theater I'm able to screen 16mm, 8mm/super 8mm sound or silent
35mm slides dvd, and VHS and HDTV controlled by my HP media center computer with a DLP 16.9 ratio projector the dlp projector is celing mounted just over the first row of chairs

I am able to accomidate 9 theater type chairs in a stadium style seating
arrangment with the first row being on the floor and second row 6" above the first row and the last row closest to the projection room wall being 12" off the floor I also will be installing transducers under the platforms so you can "feel"
the sound my theater is not done yet as I have not completed the staging area for the screen yes it will have curtains to open and close everything right now is done manually (light dimmers ect)I will be installing a small motor
for the curtains to open and close but one day I will get this all automated somehow.


Bill -

[damaddcolombian]

How do you play 16mm and 8mm film? Where can you get a projector?

Also, is it possible to transfer these films to dvd?

[cbrubaker]

You can ask any local universities or high schools if they have a working projector that they don't need anymore.

You can also look at places that sells old stuff, like antique shops. But make sure they work.

Also, there's always eBay, although the shipping price is huge.

[Ray Pointer]

Professional Camera Stores are a great source to find used projectors in good working order. This is less risky than tyring to buy one off Ebay, sight unseen.

[Tom Stathes]

I've bought most of my projectors on eBay. Aside from the shipping costs, it's the most convenient way to get a projector. Yes, you will need to make sure you bid on a fully functioning projector. The oldest ones are the most beautiful, but being that most of my "beautiful" projectors are only being displayed, it's obvious that many don't work anymore. Try finding a much newer model- like my 60's B&H which works great and only cost me $30.

If you're lucky you may also find examples in thrift shops. My 60+ year old 8mm variable speed Keystone projector cost me $10 in a junk shop. It works like a beauty, is heavy cast metal, and came in it's original simulated-crocodile skin-covered wooden carry case (boy, that was a mouthful!).
So basically, all I can do is wish one good luck;)

Cheers, fellow film collectors!
Tom

[LoveLooneyTunes]

I have the same question about how to store VHS tapes.

is it better to just leave them in the sleeves they come in, to let the air flow around them, or are the plastic shell cases safe too ?

[Tom Stathes]

I have the same question about how to store VHS tapes.

is it better to just leave them in the sleeves they come in, to let the air flow around them, or are the plastic shell cases safe too ?
Frankly, I don't think it matters with VHS tapes. The information stored on the magnetic tape will inevitably incur some sort of loss, thanks to the natural magnetics forces on Earth. I have a few VHS tapes sold way back in 1978, but they are still fine. However the 1990 home video of my first birthday party is showing more color/picture quality loss over the years. Tom says, "Do whatever you like with your VHS cassettes, but consider backing them up on DVD!"

-Tom

[LoveLooneyTunes]

"Do whatever you like with your VHS cassettes, but consider backing them up on DVD!"

the problem with putting them on DVD, is finding media that will last longer than a few years. most dvd-rs sold in stores are made rather cheaply, and i have better odds on leaving shows on VHS. i just dont know of any good dvd-rs to use.

[Geezil]

[...]I have a few VHS tapes sold way back in 1978, but they are still fine.

That's not to mention the Terrytoons "Sad Cat" VHS tape I obtained from Tom early last year, to my great satisfaction. I believe that one also dates back to the very late 1970s/very early 1980s and in fact began its life as a rental, yet still plays jes' fine!

"Terrytoons. Built to Last." (Are you getting this all down, Viacom?) ;)

George W. as the "yes, I enjoy other studios' cartoons too ... what were those studios' names again?" Geezil

[Tom Stathes]

That's not to mention the Terrytoons "Sad Cat" VHS tape I obtained from Tom early last year, to my great satisfaction. I believe that one also dates back to the very late 1970s/very early 1980s and in fact began its life as a rental, yet still plays jes' fine!

"Terrytoons. Built to Last." (Are you getting this all down, Viacom?) ;)

George W. as the "yes, I enjoy other studios' cartoons too ... what were those studios' names again?" Geezil
Heehee:bosko:
That tape was manufactured in 1979, was a rental for God knows how many years, and I picked it up probably third hand in a Salvation Army!
Long Live Terrytoons and 26 year old VHS cassettes:ysam:
-Tom

[Geezil]

Long Live Terrytoons and 26 year old VHS cassettes:ysam:


And hopefully in the reasonably near future, Terrytoons on fresh legal DVDs too! :mighty: :gandy:

[rbl100]

the problem with putting them on DVD, is finding media that will last longer than a few years. most dvd-rs sold in stores are made rather cheaply, and i have better odds on leaving shows on VHS. i just dont know of any good dvd-rs to use.

DVDR's sold in stores are probably one of the best materials to store media on for long term. DVD's have a shelf life up to hundreds of years (providing a person takes care not to scratch them). No need to worry. Magnetic tapes are prone to wrinkles, breakage, magnetic fields, and mold. Electronic media (memory sticks etc.) are prone to electronic component failure. Any media form with moving parts (VHS tape) or transistors and integrated circuits for storage will never last as long as a solid form, such as a DVD.


:D

[Ray Pointer]

DVDR's sold in stores are probably one of the best materials to store media on for long term. DVD's have a shelf life up to hundreds of years (providing a person takes care not to scratch them). No need to worry. Magnetic tapes are prone to wrinkles, breakage, magnetic fields, and mold. Electronic media (memory sticks etc.) are prone to electronic component failure. Any media form with moving parts (VHS tape) or transistors and integrated circuits for storage will never last as long as a solid form, such as a DVD.
:D

Actually, the jury is still out on this since DVDs have not been around long enough to really know how permanant they really are. The shelf life can only be as good as the media used and the care in handling. There was an article two years ago warning about the problems of DVD rot that occured in a number of Fox releases. This seemed to be related to the use of cheap, faulty discs that were not properly layer or sealed, which allowed for an oxidation to occur and mold cultures to develop.

There have also been warnings issued about the use of adhesive lables on the face surfaces causing playback problems after a period of time. All these things considered, one should not place complete faith in archiving materials using the consumer-available DVD discs that are accessible for so little money. Since I am dealing with this issue, these are matters I have had to look into with great concern, and I pass these words of advise based on how I have been advised by industry experts.

[detroittvguy]

DVDR's sold in stores are probably one of the best materials to store media on for long term. DVD's have a shelf life up to hundreds of years (providing a person takes care not to scratch them).

According to this BBC article, it appears that the average life of a digital disk is twenty years.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/history/losing_the_past.shtml

[musicradio77]

I don't own 16mm films because I don't have a projector. I have VHS and DVD's.