Semi-OT: Warner Archives

[Leviathan]

Some of you might know that Warner Bros. is embarking on this Warner Archives venture. Bascially, it's a burn-on-demand thing where they release old movies and TV shows with limited commercial potential on a burn-on-demand basis.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/sd-dvd-tv-shows-tv-movies/283986-warnerarchive-com-release-maverick-77-sunset-strip-bourboun-street-beat-et-al.html

I think this could be our best shot for a complete Tex Avery DVD and the misc. MGM shorts.

[WoodpeckerWoody]

This probably will not help international fans. Since they says that they dont ship international, but I couldn't find it anywere if Downloads will be liminated to US only. But I expect them to do so. :mad:

[Philo & Gunge]

Hopefully we'll see some animation releases out of this. Maybe those Quick Draw and Wally Gator DVD's they promised us four years ago or more Looney Tunes releases (or the final two compilation movies).

[gdX]

Very much on-topic, imo.

This service really has the look of success... though it could do with a little friendlier price point.

There are so many theatrical cartoon titles that downloading is the only viable option, especially if sales of retail product are in fact disappointing, as claimed.

Individual titles... or bargain-priced 2-hr packages – assembled by Jerry and George... much less production / delivery cost... the relatively small number of enthusiasts can get what they want... revenue can flow.

And this should easily clear the way for any "banned" cartoons as well.

Restoration is underway anyway, might as well follow through and distribute... and that doesn't mean they can't continue to put guaranteed-sales Bugs-n-Daffy titles in retail bins.

Don't need the not-so-pretty packages... the special features have run their course... just get us the catalog.

Hope the studios are paying attention.

:ysam:

[Leviathan]

Word travels fast: Jerry's post about Warner Archives on Cartoon Brew (http://www.cartoonbrew.com/classic/the-warner-archive-collection.html#comment-268191).

[nickramer]

Maybe they can finally try to do a Chronological Looney Tunes and Merrie Melodies series that some fans were whining for (I'm not refering to this fourm, btw.). Boy, I'm getting tired of people asking for that.

[Duck Dodgers]

I'll ask something I'm sure will rarely, if not ever, be released on DVDs available to everybody:

All the MGM shorts not with Droopy/Tom and Jerry and not directed by Avery;
All the b/w LTs in chronological order from 1935 to 1943.

[MF TOON]

Warners would be crazy not to capitalize on a retail set of the MGM Avery shorts, but this is great news for the future of the Happy Harmonies, Barney Bear and Captain and the Kid series!!!

Maybe WHV will be convinced to finally redo the Tom & Jerry MGM theatricals properly through this venue: complete, chronological and uncut!

The Hook and Pvt. Snafu shorts could also officialy see the light of day under this series too.

[Jack G.]

I'm assuming this is raw transfers with no restoration or reconstructed titles, etc...?

I suppose this is good for the harcore fan who wants everything.

But I really want to see a decent restoration done for Avery.
He and his fans deserve that.

Perhaps if certain cartoons are requested often maybe WHV would reconsider what it should be releasing.

[frizfrelengfan]

Sorry for posting a duplicate thread (now closed); I missed this when it was first posted.

Like everyone else, I'd like to see the MGM Averys released this way. I would also like to see some of Friz Freleng's musical cartoons from the early '40's that didn't make it to any LTGC, and some of the early color Merrie Melodies from around 1934-35. A Happy Harmonies set would be nice too, with perhaps some MGM Harman or Ising cartoons from 1937-40 thrown in.

[ohmahaaha]

I think this is the PERFECT way to release something like "the censored eleven," but I hope it is not a replacement for future Looney Tunes DVD sets, or a Tex Avery set ... because these will be pretty generic. No bonus features, no commentaries etc.

[Jack G.]

I think this is the PERFECT way to release something like "the censored eleven," ...You know, I never even thought that.

But you're right. It is.

[tristar]

...these will be pretty generic. No bonus features, no commentaries etc.
I dunno about that comment of yours... Y'know, George Feldstein, the man behind LTGC restorations is involved in this... if ya know what I mean...:tweety:

[rrfan3267]

but so far, i haven't seen anything about them releasing cartoons with this...just movies. am i missing something?

[streeter]

they announced in the chat that shorts and cartoons are coming to wbarchives, starting in 2010.

[Leviathan]

So, I guess future LT and Popeye DVD's are going to be part of this. I hope the restoration standard remains high

[J. B. Warner]

So, I guess future LT and Popeye DVD's are going to be part of this. I hope the restoration standard remains high

With people like Jerry Beck on board, I don't see why it wouldn't. Hopefully this means we'll see more Golden Age rarities, and maybe some of the better post-'75 stuff (I always wanted Daffy Duck's Quackbusters on DVD!).

[Steve Siegert]

When cartoons do become available, I am curious to see if they will bundle a bunch of them together as one program, of if we will actually be able to put together our own compilations based on what is available to order. I could see it work both ways.

I think a lot of us would be happy if they don't bundle cartoons together in one program and let us the fans pick which cartoons we want to have on one DVD, and maybe have the pricing be on a per cartoon basis.

[Keith Paynter]

At tonight's HTF chat, word was they will be issuing content to which they have rights worldwide, which is a very large amount. International sales will likely factor in at some point. Be patient.

[rex racer]

Really, just a couple points to make.

1) It would seem likely a higher cost should be incurred and charged if we can pick whatever shorts we want for a disc purchase. It seems more likely pre-arranged discs of cartoons will be made available. Happy Harmonies, Early b/w Merrie Melodies, Bosko LTs, Porky b/w LTs, and so on. Chronological might work...but

2) We are talking DVD-R quality limitations here, the longer duration the subject matter is, the more compression and loss of image quality will be apparent unless they are going to dual layer. Many existent DVD players still choke on the dual layer DVD-R format :rolleyes:

3) There are numerous pirates out there that are selling ripped laser disc and off air recordings of cartoon compilations. WB has probably realized they can grab SOME of this income back into their coffers by going with this program. Question is, will these releases have some sort of LOGO present (ala Boomerang and Cartoon Network) to discourage future pirates, as well as copyguard encryptions?

[Bradskey]

2) We are talking DVD-R quality limitations here, the longer duration the subject matter is, the more compression and loss of image quality will be apparent unless they are going to dual layer. Many existent DVD players still choke on the dual layer DVD-R format :rolleyes:


They won't release anything less than a full-D1 format of course, and I don't think over compression should be an issue unless they try to cram more than about 2 hours on a single layer. I expect they are using single layers for everything as it is perfectly suitable for nearly all of their catalog titles without any extras. If they release sets of cartoons on a single layer they will probably be the same number since we typically get 10-15 cartoons on a disk (roughly 105-120 minutes, which just fits on a single layer at normal compression levels). What we typically get with the LTGC's and other sets is two hours of cartoons per disc plus an hour or two of extras, so without the extras a single layer will work fine. A good rough guide is to think of a single-layer as 2 hours at normal quality and dual-layer as 4 hours.

As for dual layer, well... here we are in 2009 and dual layer recordable DVD technology is still rather poor. I haven't made a single-layer coaster in ages, but dual-layer is still always a possibility. The media is still expensive and I worry about its durability, although a lot of the quality of the burn has to do with the recorder. Many recorders are very poor for dual-layer recording or burn better at their slowest speeds. Its still true that many DVD players don't like them. If WB has overcome this with their recording method for more reliable dual-layer burns then more power to them, although the use of dual-layer media would certainly factor into the high cost. But I expect this whole venture will be using single-layer for the next year or two at least, perhaps always, so you'll be able to get a single movie (as opposed to a double feature), about 15 cartoons (instead of potentially 30), or 5 or 6 shorts (instead of 10 or 11) on a single layer burned disc with good quality. Of course if WB said something to contradict this in the chat then that's your final answer.

[zavkram]

This probably will not help international fans. Since they say that they don't ship international...

You could always have something shipped to a friend in the US and then have your friend mail it to wherever you live outside of the US...

[zavkram]

I'm assuming this is raw transfers with no restoration or reconstructed titles, etc...?

Well, hopefully Warner Bros. will release their "unsellable" feature films using at least the best available prints in their vaults if not the actual picture and sound negatives. Unfortunately this is all they will have for anything in the MGM film library up until 1950.

I just visited the Warner Bros. Official Online Store to see what titles were available in this series. I saw two MGM feature-film titles that I definitely want to purchase:

Young Tom Edison (starring Mickey Rooney)

Edison the Man (starring Spencer Tracy)

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Warner Bros. will finally do the right thing and release the entire MGM/Warners Tex Avery catalogue and the entire Harman-Ising cartoon library (including the Michael Lah-Preston Blair "Barney Bear" titles).

Why couldn't Warner Bros. (or any of the other major studios, for that matter) have thought of this before?

[ohmahaaha]

I dunno about that comment of yours... Y'know, George Feldstein, the man behind LTGC restorations is involved in this... if ya know what I mean...:tweety:
My understanding from reading about this is that the DVDs would be only the movies ... no bonus features or commentaries. Which only makes sense. Would you offer to make a DVD of a movie that might only get requested by fans a couple dozen times, and pay someone to record a commentary track for it? You wouldn't cover your expense. Think about it.

Which, upon thinking about it myself, makes me think this also may NOT be the best way to see the Censored Eleven. Surely, if ever a set of cartoons needed commentary ... Coal Black at least ... but, if it turns out to be the only viable way we could get to see them so be it.

[gdX]

No commentary is needed.

No documentary is needed.

No packaging is needed.

Just shoot us the catalog at a right price.

We can figure out the rest for ourselves.

:sowhite:

[FleischerFan]

No packaging is needed.

:sowhite: Actually, it does say that the DVDs are shipped shrink-wrapped in cases with artwork. The artwork looks like a generic design for the entire line with very simple titles and a still from the movie in question.

[MF TOON]

Packaging is a small window boxed movie still with a blue background that looks like an ebay bootleg. DVD-Rs are overpriced with bad compression, poor mastering and INTERLACED transfers to boot. They are charging more for these subpar releases than their retail counterparts. If this is how they chose to release their animated fare... they can keep it in the vaults!

[frizfrelengfan]

Why couldn't Warner Bros. (or any of the other major studios, for that matter) have thought of this before?I could ask that question to a lot of Hollywood types...

[Thad]

Packaging is a small window boxed movie still with a blue background that looks like an ebay bootleg. DVD-Rs are overpriced with bad compression, poor mastering and INTERLACED transfers to boot. They are charging more for these subpar releases than their retail counterparts. If this is how they chose to release their animated fare... they can keep it in the vaults!

I ordered one of the movies ("Once Upon a Honeymoon", which should have gotten a standard release). Are people reporting that the movies are interlaced and on DVD-Rs?

By the way, when you start paying anywhere from $100 to $1000 per movie (and $20 to $150 per cartoon), this 'full price' tag of $20 will not seem like such an astronomical sum.

[CueBallCat79]

By the way, when you start paying anywhere from $100 to $1000 per movie (and $20 to $150 per cartoon), this 'full price' tag of $20 will not seem like such an astronomical sum.

To be fair, only the most insane, hardcore film collector would spend that much. ;)

If we can somehow get more WB cartoons this way than I'm all for it.

[ohmahaaha]

Packaging is a small window boxed movie still with a blue background that looks like an ebay bootleg. DVD-Rs are overpriced with bad compression, poor mastering and INTERLACED transfers to boot. They are charging more for these subpar releases than their retail counterparts. If this is how they chose to release their animated fare... they can keep it in the vaults!
Did you get one?! That's a bummer. If the quality is that cheap then I agree completely. You might just as well wait for a TV broadcast & record yourself.

[Thad]

Someone I know got "Beast and the City", and it's a DVD-R, probably the same quality you would get from TCM, minus the station bug. I think later films would probably benefit more, because they'll be anamorphic widescreen.

I would honestly love to see Universal, Fox, and Columbia adopt this practice, regardless of restorations, because they don't have their classic movies running on digital cable 24-7.

[Bradskey]

I've read some complaints that films are interlaced or from old TV/VHS release masters or poor prints. It may be they are using what they have on hand, that films that need a new digital master aren't necessarily getting it just to be included in this offering, and likely no restoration work is occurring just to make these available. There is also some question as to whether all the widescreen films are anamorphic. However we know restoration work is ongoing at least with the WB cartoons, hopefully will be done for MGM as well, so we would get better materials if they every release them this way (but hopefully not interlaced!).

[tristar]

My understanding from reading about this is that the DVDs would be only the movies ... no bonus features or commentaries. Which only makes sense. Would you offer to make a DVD of a movie that might only get requested by fans a couple dozen times, and pay someone to record a commentary track for it? You wouldn't cover your expense. Think about it.What I meant was, we might see some restoration and he might be able to get us some rare goodies. That's all.

[Nelson]

I would honestly love to see Universal, Fox, and Columbia adopt this practice, regardless of restorations, because they don't have their classic movies running on digital cable 24-7.

TCM does have a deal with Sony Entertainment to broadcast the Columbia features for the next couple of years.After that, TCM will get the entire library of Universal and pre-48 Paramount titles.

[MF TOON]

I ordered one of the movies ("Once Upon a Honeymoon", which should have gotten a standard release). Are people reporting that the movies are interlaced and on DVD-Rs?

By the way, when you start paying anywhere from $100 to $1000 per movie (and $20 to $150 per cartoon), this 'full price' tag of $20 will not seem like such an astronomical sum.

Yes, they are all interlaced transfers on DVD-R with supposedly bad compression! :eek:

[MF TOON]

I've read some complaints that films are interlaced or from old TV/VHS release masters or poor prints. It may be they are using what they have on hand, that films that need a new digital master aren't necessarily getting it just to be included in this offering, and likely no restoration work is occurring just to make these available. There is also some question as to whether all the widescreen films are anamorphic. However we know restoration work is ongoing at least with the WB cartoons, hopefully will be done for MGM as well, so we would get better materials if they every release them this way (but hopefully not interlaced!).

Well the very least they can do is encode the DVDs properly from progressive transfers... this does not require any additional cost or effort, just a bit of quality control!

[Steve Siegert]

Lately, I have been digging through old posts on this forum and other forums to find information about the cartoons available on DVD as a bonus. If Warner continues to release collections of old features and includes cartoons as bonuses, it looks like we might have an almost complete collection of Tex Avery MGM shorts available to us within a few years, if any of us are willing to spend hundreds of $$$ on movies that might not particularly interest us. I certainly can not justify spending a lot of money on these movies just for the cartoons. Currently, there are only 14 MGM Tex Avery cartoons that WHV has not released on DVD, but to the best of my knowledge 2 of them probably will never get any release. Besides, "Happy-Go-Nutty", "Henpecked Hoboes" and "Garden Gopher" are all edited on DVD.

MGM Tex Avery not yet available on Region 1 DVD:

"Red Hot Riding Hood"
"What's Buzzin' Buzzard?"
"Big Heel-Watha"
"Jerky Turkey"
"Uncle Tom's Cabana" (best chance for a DVD release would be an Avery collection)
"Hound Hunters"
"Lucky Ducky" (if released as a bonus for a feature film, it is most likely going to be the edited version)
"Half-Pint Pygmy" (best chance for a DVD release would be an Avery collection)
"Doggone Tired"
"Cock-a-Doodle Dog"
"One Cab's Family"
"Rocky-a-Bye Bear"
"Cellbound"
"Cat's Meow"

As for the Avery cartoons that are currently available as bonus content, I have seen some of them and they all look pretty good. Does anyone know if these DVD versions are actually restored?

[Matthew Hunter]

Lately, I have been digging through old posts on this forum and other forums to find information about the cartoons available on DVD as a bonus. If Warner continues to release collections of old features and includes cartoons as bonuses, it looks like we might have an almost complete collection of Tex Avery MGM shorts available to us within a few years, if any of us are willing to spend hundreds of $$$ on movies that might not particularly interest us. I certainly can not justify spending a lot of money on these movies just for the cartoons. Currently, there are only 14 MGM Tex Avery cartoons that WHV has not released on DVD, but to the best of my knowledge 2 of them probably will never get any release. Besides, "Happy-Go-Nutty", "Henpecked Hoboes" and "Garden Gopher" are all edited on DVD.

MGM Tex Avery not yet available on Region 1 DVD:

"Red Hot Riding Hood"
"What's Buzzin' Buzzard?"
"Big Heel-Watha"
"Jerky Turkey"
"Uncle Tom's Cabana" (best chance for a DVD release would be an Avery collection)
"Hound Hunters"
"Lucky Ducky" (if released as a bonus for a feature film, it is most likely going to be the edited version)
"Half-Pint Pygmy" (best chance for a DVD release would be an Avery collection)
"Doggone Tired"
"Cock-a-Doodle Dog"
"One Cab's Family"
"Rocky-a-Bye Bear"
"Cellbound"
"Cat's Meow"

As for the Avery cartoons that are currently available as bonus content, I have seen some of them and they all look pretty good. Does anyone know if these DVD versions are actually restored?


As I understand it, the MGM cartoons can't be fully restored due to the original negatives being destroyed by a fire. However, they were kept in better condition over the years than the AAP library, so Turner was able to remaster them from the existing source prints (sort of like they did with the WB "dubbed versions".)

[Steve Siegert]

As I understand it, the MGM cartoons can't be fully restored due to the original negatives being destroyed by a fire. However, they were kept in better condition over the years than the AAP library, so Turner was able to remaster them from the existing source prints (sort of like they did with the WB "dubbed versions".)

Well, what I was getting at was whether these were new transfers or not. I understand that the original film elements for most of these have been lost due to a fire. Despite the fact that DVD provides better quality than VHS, the MGM cartoons I have seen look far superior on their current DVD releases.

[speedy fast]

While this is a semi-great idea, I don't havae a credit card or checking account, and I don't order things online. So I would hope that we will continue to get some retail Looney Tunes DVDs for quite awhile. Though I guess this burn-on-demand thing might increase chances of more Bosko (both warner and MGM) and Buddy cartoons, and more of the post-1964 cartoons.

[Thad]

They still have YCM elements, which is what they used for most of the ones on the Oscar set. ("Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Mouse", "Yankee Doodle Mouse", "Blitz Wolf", etc.) That's as good as they're going to look.

[jonmayo15]

This review has me worried about this Archive idea, and the reviewer is reputable.
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/36881/warner-bros-archive-collection-private-lives/

[Chow Hound]

This review has me worried about this Archive idea, and the reviewer is reputable.
http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/36881/warner-bros-archive-collection-private-lives/
I wouldn't worry about that in regard to the WB cartoon library. If they're not lying about continuing to restore 60 shorts a year, then most of that article is not applicable to the Looney Tunes as the transfers would presumably be from the restored prints.

[jonmayo15]

A review of a live action film with screen shots.
http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDReviews45/I_was_a_communist_for_the_F.B.I.htm

Some unfortunate news:
"1. The discs are being burned on DVD-R instead of being pressed at the plant, but Warner is using the best possible DVD-R media and is standing behind their product.

2. Most of the transfers being sold at this time are interlaced and not progressive. It's unfortunate, but hopefully they will correct this for later releases.

3. High price point. Current price for each disc is $19.95, which is too steep for a non-progressive DVD-R. So far they've been having multiple coupons and sales that can bring the price for each disc lower. You still have an option to download the movie, but for $14.95 each title that may have some compatibility issues - it's even less atractive than DVD-R for $5 more."

Ugh, interlacing.

[Bradskey]

Its all been gone over rather exhaustively at another forum -- they're interlaced, they're not restored, sometimes they're not even from very good materials, and they're not pressed. But at any rate, if you order by the end of today I think you can use code SPITFIRE to buy 2 and get 1 free with free shipping -- not bad. Brings the cost per disc down quite a bit. Otherwise you can try code WARCHIVE25 and see how that works for ya.

[ThePeterNetwork]

Do you have to register with their website in order to get these movies? And what is their website? I have an iTunes account, so would that be a better option?

[Chow Hound]

Do you have to register with their website in order to get these movies? And what is their website? I have an iTunes account, so would that be a better option?It's: http://www.warnerarchive.com/

[PF9]

A good release for the Warner Archive would be "Bugs & Daffy: The Wartime Cartoons". This version would contain the LTGC versions of all the cartoons featured (as they have all been restored).

Quite frankly, it might be the only way we'll get to see Leonard Maltin's wraparounds for these cartoons on DVD.