OT: Outsourcing animation

[cbrubaker]

Rocko's Modern Life creator Joe Murray has a blog where he mostly writes about his muses and his process on the independent short film he's working on.

Recently he wrote (http://joemurraystudio.com/blog/?p=883) about having to outsource animation to an overseas studio and the economic reality behind it.

Thought it was interesting. I know some of you have written about this as well.

Any comments?

[Brandon Panther]

Rough Draft seems to be the best Korean animation studio. They also handled much of the animation for The Angry Beavers, and did excellent jobs (though occasionally they were known to fudge up the coloring on some characters).

But me, if I was going to outsource animation, and Rough Draft wasn't an option, I'd outsource to the UK or France. Man, they've got some AWESOME animators over there! Anybody see their work on Drew Carey's Green Screen Show?

[Ray Pointer]

Rough Draft seems to be the best Korean animation studio. They also handled much of the animation for The Angry Beavers, and did excellent jobs (though occasionally they were known to fudge up the coloring on some characters).

But me, if I was going to outsource animation, and Rough Draft wasn't an option, I'd outsource to the UK or France. Man, they've got some AWESOME animators over there! Anybody see their work on Drew Carey's Green Screen Show?

Excuse me, but we have "awesome animators" right here in the good old U.S.A. Who do you think taught them the craft? We invented this medium, as you may recall. But one needs to look to the reasons as to why the work was outsourced. This was not something that was a procedure of the 1990s, but began a generatation ago starting with Jay Ward Productions going to Mexico in 1959. MGM outsourced to Gene Deitch in Prague, and King Features contracted around the globe including
three domestic production houses and three overseas simultaneously. That was in the early 1960s.

Hanna-Barbera started shipping ink and paint overseas in the late 60s and into the 1970s, then started sending animation work there as well. They had a stake in Phil-Cartoons in the Phillippines, where the new JETSONS was made.

While there was a generation of work being done in Korea, specifically the color remakes of the 1970s, the work was generally inferior. Over time, the studios made an investment in training staff, sending American supervisors over. Two of the prominent contract studios of the 1980s and 90s were Wang's Cuckoo's Nest and Rough Draft. Rough Draft definately had the most skilled staff and major studios contracted with them including Nickelodeon and Fox. During my stay at Nickelodeon, we were sending all production work to Rough Draft with a 12 week turnaround on delivery. The work was only as good as the pre-production direction domestically, and the production supervision team in Korea. For the most part, it was a very efficient system so long as there was Final Checking done on the pre-production work going overseas. If exposure sheets were vague or erroneous in their direction, and if the supervisor could not straigthen it out, errors would result calling for retakes.

The shame of it is that with the new television animation studios that have evolved in Los Angeles, very few of the people working there are animators, and most of them have never worked in a full studio where all of the processes exist under the same facility. I happen to be of that last generation exposed to the old studio system.

[Studio Toledo]

Excuse me, but we have "awesome animators" right here in the good old U.S.A.

I can always rely on you to show us the way!

[quote]Who do you think taught them the craft? We invented this medium, as you may recall. But one needs to look to the reasons as to why the work was outsourced. This was not something that was a procedure of the 1990s, but began a generatation ago starting with Jay Ward Productions going to Mexico in 1959. MGM outsourced to Gene Deitch in Prague, and King Features contracted around the globe including
three domestic production houses and three overseas simultaneously. That was in the early 1960s.
An interesting feat indeed for it's time.

Hanna-Barbera started shipping ink and paint overseas in the late 60s and into the 1970s, then started sending animation work there as well. They had a stake in Phil-Cartoons in the Phillippines, where the new JETSONS was made.
I think the name was "Fil-Cartoons", but you're right about that.

While there was a generation of work being done in Korea, specifically the color remakes of the 1970s, the work was generally inferior.
I've only recently found this AWN article that talks about that a bit...
http://www.awn.com/mag/issue2.6/2.6pages/2.6vallaskorea.html

[quote]Over time, the studios made an investment in training staff, sending American supervisors over. Two of the prominent contract studios of the 1980s and 90s were Wang's Cuckoo's Nest and Rough Draft. Rough Draft definately had the most skilled staff and major studios contracted with them including Nickelodeon and Fox. During my stay at Nickelodeon, we were sending all production work to Rough Draft with a 12 week turnaround on delivery. The work was only as good as the pre-production direction domestically, and the production supervision team in Korea. For the most part, it was a very efficient system so long as there was Final Checking done on the pre-production work going overseas. If exposure sheets were vague or erroneous in their direction, and if the supervisor could not straigthen it out, errors would result calling for retakes.
We we don't need!

The shame of it is that with the new television animation studios that have evolved in Los Angeles, very few of the people working there are animators, and most of them have never worked in a full studio where all of the processes exist under the same facility. I happen to be of that last generation exposed to the old studio system.
You should be proud of what you've done. I get the impression those new studios often hire those that probably don't lift a finger much besides signing a few things.

[Ray Pointer]

[

I think the name was "Fil-Cartoons", but you're right about that.

You should be proud of what you've done. I get the impression those new studios often hire those that probably don't lift a finger much besides signing a few things.

Yes, it was Fil-Cartoons, not Phil-Cartoons. As for the other issues, I have the satisfaction of having done what I've done inspite of the ignorance of this on the part of individuals who should know. But it is not fair to say that those in the studios don't lift a finger. They do an amount of work that is limited in its scope due to the limited professional experience of the people in the studios. While many are accomplished in drawing and design, their exposure has been limited and compartmentalized due to the structure of the business that does not expose them to anything else. My biggest beef is the procedure that promotes Animation Directors who have never been animators, done any sort of scene planning or camera work. Such things seem unimportant to the studio leaders today, yet in my experiences some directors I worked under failed to realize opportunity to make use of interesting camera techniques to make scenes more effective and also use camera positions to eliminate extra scenes and layouts. So long as the outsourcing was based on a low cost per drawing, there was little concern about economy of artwork and producing work for its own sake without regard to its necessity or application in some cases.

While I appreciate your compliments, I must admit that in the eyes of the current people in charge, I am too "old fashioned" and do not "fit" their hip awareness of their particular "directing style." NONSENSE!

[PudgieDParrot]

IMO, the best overseas service company is Toon City, a Phillipines-based firm who has frequently collaborated with Disney on many of their shows like Mickey's MouseWorks and House of Mouse... ...Probably because I am an appreciator of full animation, and as a student I am developing a "style" of my own.

A few weeks ago I had a conversation with WB cartoon legend Bob Abrams while at a demonstration during the "Art of Warner Bros. Cartoons" exhibit at Seattle's Museum of History and Industry on this subject:

PDP: You know, many of the studios in Korea that animate most TV shows now DON'T know the difference between full and limited animation. What's your opinion?
BA: They also don't know the difference between a "cartoon" (as in a newspaper cartoon) and an "animated cartoon, for that matter! LOL!

John K once said on his blog that during the production of Ren and Stimpy, he felt that one job which others felt was non-creative WAS creative---the LAYOUTS. While other studios were outsourcing their layouts, John K had his layouts done in-house. He even had some of the animation done in-house as well (mostly keys and extremes), with the overseas team doing everything from inbetweening onward.

If I make a series and can't get Toon City, then I might as well follow John K's logic.

[cbrubaker]

Often times even layouts are considered too expensive and most companies now only send cleaned-up storyboards. Even then, however, it's still possible to get individual styles in modern animation.

In shows like Chowder and The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack, whenever you see an "off model" character designs is because that's how the board artists drew the characters. Believe it or not, there are times I can tell who storyboarded the episode without looking at the credits just by looking at the characters. This is especially true to Flapjack; I can spot scenes Pendleton Ward storyboarded by looking at the characters' faces. (one character, Bubbie the whale, seems to get a different design in every episode!)

Some criticized this method, however. In addition to having less control over the animation many also feels that this gives the board artists extra workload, pressuring them into putting more details into drawing and not enough on story. It's case-by-case, of course. I don't see much suffering in the writing on the two shows I mentioned.

EDIT: Of course, I should point out that this happens with them because the creators of the respective series wants their shows to be storyboard influenced. C.H. Greenblatt's and Thurop Van Orman's previous experience in animation was by being a board artist for other shows, so they're more familiar with this part of the animation process.

[Studio Toledo]

Yes, it was Fil-Cartoons, not Phil-Cartoons.
Thanks! Before I knew the location of said studio, I thought the name itself was a silly pun. Not so much related to the country it was in, but on the word "Fill", as in "Filling in". They're filling in for the animation!

As for the other issues, I have the satisfaction of having done what I've done inspite of the ignorance of this on the part of individuals who should know. But it is not fair to say that those in the studios don't lift a finger. They do an amount of work that is limited in its scope due to the limited professional experience of the people in the studios. While many are accomplished in drawing and design, their exposure has been limited and compartmentalized due to the structure of the business that does not expose them to anything else.
No 'probs here.

My biggest beef is the procedure that promotes Animation Directors who have never been animators, done any sort of scene planning or camera work. Such things seem unimportant to the studio leaders today, yet in my experiences some directors I worked under failed to realize opportunity to make use of interesting camera techniques to make scenes more effective and also use camera positions to eliminate extra scenes and layouts. So long as the outsourcing was based on a low cost per drawing, there was little concern about economy of artwork and producing work for its own sake without regard to its necessity or application in some cases.
I see your case. I think it's a shame if that's the way things are today given the changes these promotions happen.

While I appreciate your compliments, I must admit that in the eyes of the current people in charge, I am too "old fashioned" and do not "fit" their hip awareness of their particular "directing style." NONSENSE!
I don't see you as 'old-fashion' at all. I only wish those people would understand what had been the way animation was done and continue to live by it.

[Thad]

But outsourcing has its benefits. Where would we be without those great Happy Meal toys!

[Studio Toledo]

IMO, the best overseas service company is Toon City, a Phillipines-based firm who has frequently collaborated with Disney on many of their shows like Mickey's MouseWorks and House of Mouse... ...Probably because I am an appreciator of full animation, and as a student I am developing a "style" of my own.
Haven't been too familiar with that studio myself.

A few weeks ago I had a conversation with WB cartoon legend Bob Abrams while at a demonstration during the "Art of Warner Bros. Cartoons" exhibit at Seattle's Museum of History and Industry on this subject:

PDP: You know, many of the studios in Korea that animate most TV shows now DON'T know the difference between full and limited animation. What's your opinion?
BA: They also don't know the difference between a "cartoon" (as in a newspaper cartoon) and an "animated cartoon, for that matter! LOL!
That can be a case since the Koreans have only one word to refer to comic books and cartoons, "Manhwa".

Japan's wording of animation as "anime" came as a result of fan support that grew out of the 1970's thanks to shows like Space Battleship Yamato and Gundam. Prior to that, most domestic animation produced for television in Japan was labeled "terebi manga" (or "TV Comics"), due to the number of shows that were adapted from manga that was published previously. "Anime" was meant to distinguish their work that seem shaped what would follow in the 80's and 90's.

John K once said on his blog that during the production of Ren and Stimpy, he felt that one job which others felt was non-creative WAS creative---the LAYOUTS. While other studios were outsourcing their layouts, John K had his layouts done in-house. He even had some of the animation done in-house as well (mostly keys and extremes), with the overseas team doing everything from inbetweening onward.
I often believe doing keys in-house is also a better way to control the final output.

If I make a series and can't get Toon City, then I might as well follow John K's logic.
I probably would too.

[Bugsy-Kun]

Rough Draft seems to be the best Korean animation studio. They also handled much of the animation for The Angry Beavers, and did excellent jobs (though occasionally they were known to fudge up the coloring on some characters).

But me, if I was going to outsource animation, and Rough Draft wasn't an option, I'd outsource to the UK or France. Man, they've got some AWESOME animators over there! Anybody see their work on Drew Carey's Green Screen Show?

I hope it's a joke what you talking about.

I prefer to see a local animation made by humans than a corporate machine made in overseas. The fact why any US animations is made overseas today is because for budget to don't pay US animators.

[Gasmask Ted]

""Anime" was meant to distinguish their work that seem shaped what would follow in the 80's and 90's."

I thought anime was the generic word for animation in Japan, applying to Western animation as well as domestic (terebi manga being clearly inapplicable to, say, theatrical animation of any kind, which would have been all animation prior to WWII, at least).

[Studio Toledo]

""Anime" was meant to distinguish their work that seem shaped what would follow in the 80's and 90's."

I thought anime was the generic word for animation in Japan, applying to Western animation as well as domestic (terebi manga being clearly inapplicable to, say, theatrical animation of any kind, which would have been all animation prior to WWII, at least).
It became a generic word later on, but I think prior to that, it was perhaps referred to by another word or by the loan word "animation". Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime) has a mention about how the terminology got started that should clear up a few things (unless someone hasn't re-edited it into something I wouldn't recommend reading). Being reminded of a line that was used once in "Otaku no Video" where a character had to remind a passerby that it was "anime", not "manga", much in the way we may call it 'animation' to distinguish it from 'cartoon'.

[Brandon Panther]

I hope it's a joke what you talking about.

I prefer to see a local animation made by humans than a corporate machine made in overseas. The fact why any US animations is made overseas today is because for budget to don't pay US animators.
I was actually implying if I absolutely HAD to outsource animation. I should have reworded that better.

[Speedy Boris]

In the last season of Rocko, we switched to Rough Draft Studio, which also handled all of Lazlo, where I thought the quality was great! So I'm confused... is he implying that Sunwoo DIDN'T produce quality? I thought they did a good job on Rocko.

[cbrubaker]

Sunwoo did alot of mistakes, from my understanding. Murray had to order retakes alot because of it. He mentioned in his book that the registration holes in the cels started to tear up because of the constant retake orders, making the characters out of place over the backgrounds.

Some of the mistakes ended up in the finished reel. One of the big ones was in one of the "Fatheads" sequence in I Have No Son. Remember the beginning where the Fatheads were "walking" their pet fly, and only their boots were moving (making a sort of a jiggly movement)? That was never part of the original storyboards; it was actually a mistake on the Korean animators part.

Luckily for the Korean studio, the Rocko crew found it hilarious, so they decided to keep it.

[Studio Toledo]

So I'm confused... is he implying that Sunwoo DIDN'T produce quality? I thought they did a good job on Rocko.
Being reminded Sunwoo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1bDJTsA_YlE) also did this a couple years back. Still, I often felt Sunwoo did nice but not terrific work myself.

[Speedy Boris]

Sunwoo did alot of mistakes, from my understanding. Murray had to order retakes alot because of it. He mentioned in his book that the registration holes in the cels started to tear up because of the constant retake orders, making the characters out of place over the backgrounds.

Some of the mistakes ended up in the finished reel. One of the big ones was in one of the "Fatheads" sequence in I Have No Son. Remember the beginning where the Fatheads were "walking" their pet fly, and only their boots were moving (making a sort of a jiggly movement)? That was never part of the original storyboards; it was actually a mistake on the Korean animators part.

Luckily for the Korean studio, the Rocko crew found it hilarious, so they decided to keep it. Wow, never realized all that. Still, despite all the retakes made, what ended up on screen was pretty good. Though I can definitely see why Murray was glad to switch to Rough Draft if they posed less production problems. Still, I often felt Sunwoo did nice but not terrific work myself. I'm actually not a big fan of Sunwoo either. The only two shows where I consistently enjoyed their work was Rocko and Duckman.

Though that Yobi film looks interesting... I may have to watch that sometime.

[Studio Toledo]

I'm actually not a big fan of Sunwoo either. The only two shows where I consistently enjoyed their work was Rocko and Duckman.
Watched both too and though they were OK..

Though that Yobi film looks interesting... I may have to watch that sometime.
It is a more domestic effort for them I'm sure, but I kinda like to see those guys try something for once on their own than the usual subcontracted grind. Nelson Shin did a movie (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gOWstvoHuR4) on his own a couple years ago I sorta like to see someday.

[Matt the Y]

Reading this whole thread, it actually reminds me of something that makes me a little empathetic..... the closing of Jon McClenahan's StarToons studio in 2001.

StarToons was based out of Chicago, Illinois making it one of the few American based animation studios that could do animation for (gasp!) American TV shows. It mostly did animation for WB-produced TV shows (Tiny Toons, Animaniacs, Taz-Mania, etc.) including episodes that the atrocious Kennedy Studios animated that would have to be re-done because Kennedy messed up the animation so badly; they would send those scenes to StarToons to re-do! Disney TV would do the same with THEIR shows that Kennedy would animate for them; anything that Kennedy did too poorly, Disney would send to StarToons to do right!

Unfortunately, StarToons ultimately did not turn out enough profit to stay in business and they had to fold. Why? BECAUSE most American TV shows ship out their animation to be done overseas (in Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Australia, and the like). Apparently, the most commonly cited reason was because it was too expensive to hire the U.S.-based StarToons to do animation for their shows more often (i.e. doing it overseas IS cheaper or so they were told) and the studio was foreclosed (I believe "Little Go Beep" was the last project StarToons worked on before the studio shut down).

Still, I guess StarToons should be given credit for actually trying to give home-grown animation a try even if the end result was ultimately failure (I liked their work on Tiny Toons the best). I just think it's a shame that nobody thought to hire them just because they'd reached such a corporate set mindset that OVERSEAS=CHEAPER, FASTER, AND BETTER (but the question is how much more so in the end?) that led to the demise of their studio.

[TServo2049]

I hope it's a joke what you talking about.

I prefer to see a local animation made by humans than a corporate machine made in overseas. The fact why any US animations is made overseas today is because for budget to don't pay US animators.

I hate to say it, but IMO, the executive side is not fully to blame.

First of all, I dunno if there was any relationship between the runaway inflation of the mid/late 70s, and the first big wave of outsourcing to Asia in the late 70s (which led to an animator's strike in 1979, which Robert Lamb mentioned in his website); if the same numerical amount of money couldn't pay for the same amount of domestic, union animation work, that would have been a logical reason to shift animation production to another country where costs were lower.

Second, there's the dramatically increased orders of animation. A 65-episode daily syndicated series was unheard of in the 70s. The first daily strips were in 1983, Inspector Gadget and He-Man. Gadget was done by DIC, who was still not a wholly American entity at the time, and who was already sending the majority of production to TMS and other studios in Japan; in addition, DIC enlisted the help of Nelvana in Toronto, and even went outside of Japan, sending some of the work to James Wang's Cuckoo's Nest studio in Taiwan.

The other daily strip that fall was He-Man. It was made entirely in the U.S., but it's extremely obvious that to turn out 65 half-hours on a TV budget (I have no idea what the per-episode budget was), Filmation had to resort to even more stock poses, recycled animation, talking-head shots, and static background pans than usual.

65-episode strips, with the exception of Filmation's, would always be outsourced somewhere; even WB sent their shows, which were of considerably higher quality than DIC's, to various overseas studios (and a couple in North America, though I think Kennedy outsourced inbetweens, ink and paint and camera to Korea and/or the Philippines - Kennedy would later set up their own Manila studio to handle those chores for their Disney TV work).

Which brings me to my point. With the dollar being worth less than it was in the 60s and 70s, and with more and more series and larger amounts of episodes (though we don't get 65-episode seasons anymore), there is no way that full traditional animation can be done on a TV budget by American union animators. Even when TV animation was done in the States, it was still limited animation of the H-B variety.

With Flash, etc., some animation is coming back to the States. But if we want actual hand-drawn TV animation to come back to the States, American union animators are going to have to ask for less money. The awful truth is that with the wages that American union animators demand, the amount of shows made, and thus the smaller budgets given to each show, there is no way to financially sustain fully stateside traditional TV animation production. Filmation had to become even more ridiculously limited to buck the trend of overseas production, and both Kennedy and StarToons ended up sending more and more work overseas, and eventually shutting down, because it just became too costly.

Unless American animators are willing to work for scale, or even sub-scale, pay, I can't see TV animation ever returning to the States...

[TServo2049]

Unfortunately, StarToons ultimately did not turn out enough profit to stay in business and they had to fold. Why? BECAUSE most American TV shows ship out their animation to be done overseas (in Taiwan, Korea, Japan, Australia, and the like). Apparently, the most commonly cited reason was because it was too expensive to hire the U.S.-based StarToons to do animation for their shows more often (i.e. doing it overseas IS cheaper or so they were told) and the studio was foreclosed (I believe "Little Go Beep" was the last project StarToons worked on before the studio shut down).

I just think it's a shame that nobody thought to hire them just because they'd reached such a corporate set mindset that OVERSEAS=CHEAPER, FASTER, AND BETTER (but the question is how much more so in the end?) that led to the demise of their studio.

As I've said, with the amount of TV animation that gets made these days, budgets per-series are obviously going to be reduced, and American union animators refuse to give an inch on wages. If keeping animation in the States means it costs four times as much, obviously it is financially unfeasible to keep animation here rather than sending it overseas.

If the "corporate mindset" is going to be solely blamed for animation leaving the U.S., nothing will ever be achieved in terms of bringing it back. Demonizing the networks and producers as greedy villains, and portraying overseas studios as sweatshops, will accomplish nothing. All parties will have to compromise something if traditional hand-drawn animation for TV is ever to be done in the U.S. again. Budgets will have to go up, and wages will have to go down.

I'm sorry, but as I said, American animators have to compete with overseas animators. Just like with any business, and especially with the current state of the economy, the animators' unions can't just stubbornly refuse to give an inch, and then lament how all the animation work has gone overseas. Something has to give on both sides.

[Leviathan]

In terms of outsourced animation, I wish we could go back to the early 90's, with the funky, choc-a-bloc animation errors and a lack of sacrosanctness of the model sheet.

I mean, I would trade something as bland, sterile and expressionless as King of the Hill to get something akin to, say, a Kennedy Tiny Toons episode or a Tracy Ullman Simpsons segment.

Most of the people who work on cartoons today don't WANT visual gags or funny visuals or cartooniness. People like Matt Groening and Seth Macfarlane and Mike Judge and Trey Parker and Matt Stone don't want characters to not look like the model sheet because they're too incompetent to produce anything other than "walk and talk" animation. Any visual humor of a given model cartoon has already been sucked out by the time anything gets sent to Korea.

Interesting visuals CAN occur in outsourced cartoons. The early seasons of The Simpsons demonstrated that. It's just that no one wants to do it anymore.

[cbrubaker]

It's case-by-case. Sometimes overseas studio really do mess up the drawings the domestic crew set up, such as the case with the Tiny Toons episode "Duck Dodgers Jr".

And South Park...well, it's supposed to look like it was made with construction papers (the first episode was, in fact, made this way) so the animation will always be stiff regardless. It's one of the few shows animated domestically, but then, "South Park" is non-union and it literally takes few days (from script to final editing) to make one episode.

[PudgieDParrot]

Haven't been too familiar with that studio myself.

Here is their website (http://www.tooncity.com.ph/about.html), if you are interested.

[Studio Toledo]

Still, I guess StarToons should be given credit for actually trying to give home-grown animation a try even if the end result was ultimately failure (I liked their work on Tiny Toons the best). I just think it's a shame that nobody thought to hire them just because they'd reached such a corporate set mindset that OVERSEAS=CHEAPER, FASTER, AND BETTER (but the question is how much more so in the end?) that led to the demise of their studio.
I often wished we had more studios like StarToons that tried to keep the work here as well.

[Studio Toledo]

I hate to say it, but IMO, the executive side is not fully to blame.

First of all, I dunno if there was any relationship between the runaway inflation of the mid/late 70s, and the first big wave of outsourcing to Asia in the late 70s (which led to an animator's strike in 1979, which Robert Lamb mentioned in his website); if the same numerical amount of money couldn't pay for the same amount of domestic, union animation work, that would have been a logical reason to shift animation production to another country where costs were lower.
Would be the reason.

Second, there's the dramatically increased orders of animation. A 65-episode daily syndicated series was unheard of in the 70s. The first daily strips were in 1983, Inspector Gadget and He-Man. Gadget was done by DIC, who was still not a wholly American entity at the time, and who was already sending the majority of production to TMS and other studios in Japan; in addition, DIC enlisted the help of Nelvana in Toronto, and even went outside of Japan, sending some of the work to James Wang's Cuckoo's Nest studio in Taiwan.
1983 was quite an interesting year when the first weekday syndication of an original cartoon stated to happen, and became a standard into the 1990's. Prior to that, you never really saw anything like that at all, let alone anything produced new for syndication that wasn't reruns or foreign-acquired.

In the case of Inspector Gadget, I remember thinking there was something quite special about the show given the way it was presented over a local UHF station that wasn't an affiliate of any network, and I could only watch it there when it first debuted. Never realized the kind of globetrotting that show took to produce.

The other daily strip that fall was He-Man. It was made entirely in the U.S., but it's extremely obvious that to turn out 65 half-hours on a TV budget (I have no idea what the per-episode budget was), Filmation had to resort to even more stock poses, recycled animation, talking-head shots, and static background pans than usual.
Funny how I would still tune in anyway despite not realizing those stock shots/animations continuously being done.

65-episode strips, with the exception of Filmation's, would always be outsourced somewhere; even WB sent their shows, which were of considerably higher quality than DIC's, to various overseas studios (and a couple in North America, though I think Kennedy outsourced inbetweens, ink and paint and camera to Korea and/or the Philippines - Kennedy would later set up their own Manila studio to handle those chores for their Disney TV work).
I still often think doing keys should be the best we could do in-house while everything else could be outsourced, but that's my opinion.

Which brings me to my point. With the dollar being worth less than it was in the 60s and 70s, and with more and more series and larger amounts of episodes (though we don't get 65-episode seasons anymore),
Thank God (some shows may see 52 if ever)!

there is no way that full traditional animation can be done on a TV budget by American union animators. Even when TV animation was done in the States, it was still limited animation of the H-B variety.
Sad really

With Flash, etc., some animation is coming back to the States. But if we want actual hand-drawn TV animation to come back to the States, American union animators are going to have to ask for less money.
You'd often think it would've been easy for some younger people to feel they could stand to live with it anyway.

The awful truth is that with the wages that American union animators demand, the amount of shows made, and thus the smaller budgets given to each show, there is no way to financially sustain fully stateside traditional TV animation production. Filmation had to become even more ridiculously limited to buck the trend of overseas production, and both Kennedy and StarToons ended up sending more and more work overseas, and eventually shutting down, because it just became too costly.
At least they tried to stay afloat through it all.

Unless American animators are willing to work for scale, or even sub-scale, pay, I can't see TV animation ever returning to the States...
It would be nice despite the present climate.

[Studio Toledo]

As I've said, with the amount of TV animation that gets made these days, budgets per-series are obviously going to be reduced, and American union animators refuse to give an inch on wages. If keeping animation in the States means it costs four times as much, obviously it is financially unfeasible to keep animation here rather than sending it overseas.
Probably why I learned to despise unions.

I'm sorry, but as I said, American animators have to compete with overseas animators. Just like with any business, and especially with the current state of the economy, the animators' unions can't just stubbornly refuse to give an inch, and then lament how all the animation work has gone overseas. Something has to give on both sides.
You would think they would listen by now.

[Studio Toledo]

In terms of outsourced animation, I wish we could go back to the early 90's, with the funky, choc-a-bloc animation errors and a lack of sacrosanctness of the model sheet.

I mean, I would trade something as bland, sterile and expressionless as King of the Hill to get something akin to, say, a Kennedy Tiny Toons episode or a Tracy Ullman Simpsons segment.
More or less, get people who would draw shows efficient, but still cartoony enough to get past through.

Most of the people who work on cartoons today don't WANT visual gags or funny visuals or cartooniness. People like Matt Groening and Seth Macfarlane and Mike Judge and Trey Parker and Matt Stone don't want characters to not look like the model sheet because they're too incompetent to produce anything other than "walk and talk" animation. Any visual humor of a given model cartoon has already been sucked out by the time anything gets sent to Korea.
The whole 'walk & talk' method apparently seems to be the model they want to continue using for as long as we still have anything left for entertainment.

Interesting visuals CAN occur in outsourced cartoons. The early seasons of The Simpsons demonstrated that. It's just that no one wants to do it anymore.
Though the first season of The Simpsons still had some animators who worked in-house on those episodes too I believe. I remember spotting a few names in the credits of those shows like "Bart The Genius" and "Moaning Lisa".

[Studio Toledo]

It's case-by-case. Sometimes overseas studio really do mess up the drawings the domestic crew set up, such as the case with the Tiny Toons episode "Duck Dodgers Jr".
Funny I thought there was something wrong with that one (having not watched it more than once or twice).

And South Park...well, it's supposed to look like it was made with construction papers (the first episode was, in fact, made this way)
Though some paper they used or certain colors was probably from expensive art paper (especially flesh tones).

so the animation will always be stiff regardless. It's one of the few shows animated domestically, but then, "South Park" is non-union and it literally takes few days (from script to final editing) to make one episode.
Would be nice to see more non-union efforts come out that wasn't so cut 'n paste.

[Studio Toledo]

Here is their website (http://www.tooncity.com.ph/about.html), if you are interested.
Having checked them out, they seem like a pretty good studio with some reputation.

[tristar]

How come nobody gets their animation done at Carbunke Cartoons (http://www.carbunklecartoons.com/) anymore? For those who don't know, this is Bob Jaques' studio known for it's quality work for the "Ren and Stimpy Show".

[wiley207]

How come nobody gets their animation done at Carbunke Cartoons (http://www.carbunklecartoons.com/) anymore? For those who don't know, this is Bob Jaques' studio known for it's quality work for the "Ren and Stimpy Show".

Not sure. I DO know that Carbunkle Cartoons did some animation for that "Tales of Worm Paranoia" What-A-Cartoon short back in 1996, the rest of the animation was done by Kennedy Cartoons (yes, the same one from Tiny Toon Adventures!)

I think DiC Entertainment may have been one of the first North American cartoon studios that had most of its output animated to Japan. "Inspector Gadget" was primarily animated by TMS Entertainment during the first season, but a handful of episodes (such as "Down on the Farm," "Amusement Park," "Art Heist," "So it is Written," etc.) were outsourced to Wang Film Productions/Cuckoo's Nest Studios in Taiwan. So as a result, the Taiwan-animated episodes had a lower quality to them and stuck out like a sore thumb. At least they drew a rather good Penny and Brain. And for the TMS-animated episodes, I am sure they must've had more than one animation director; some episodes (like "The Curse of the Pharaoh," "The Coo-Coo Clock Caper" and "Did You Myth Me?") had a higher quality than usual, with more rounded designs and fuller animation similar to the "Tiny Toon Adventures" and "Animaniacs" episodes TMS animated; while others resembled "Lupin the Third" or a very well-produced Anime series meant to imitate American animation. But TMS didn't just animate "Inspector Gadget." DiC also had "Heathcliff and the Catillac Cats" and "The Littles" animation handled by TMS as well. However, TMS again only animated the first season of "Heathcliff" (and Wang handled a few episodes), but "The Littles" was completely animated by TMS throughout the show's entire run (because unlike "Heathcliff" and "Gadget," "The Littles" was a Saturday morning cartoon on ABC). So while "The Littles" had a uniform and consistent look to its animation, "Gadget" and "Heathcliff" changed a bit in the second season. Apparently DiC thought TMS was becoming rather expensive to outsource all their stuff to, so in 1985 TMS only animated "The Littles," while they sent "Gadget" and "Heathcliff" to other Japanese studios, resulting in a very Anime-like look and feel to those other two shows, while "The Littles" still looked like something Disney could have done.

Incidentally, Disney also outsourced many of their TV cartoons to TMS during the 1980s, such as with "Gummi Bears," "DuckTales," "The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh" and "Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers." I think this was a smart idea, since Disney wanted their TV cartoons to be of very high-quality. In 1989, Disney and TMS must have broken off their deal, because by this time Disney opened their own company, Walt Disney Television Animation Australia, for outsourcing animation production to. They also wound up hiring other studios such as Wang, Sunwoo, etc.

Naturally, with Disney having wild success with their TV animation studio ("The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh" even won an Emmy award!), Warner Bros. wanted to compete. Thus "Tiny Toon Adventures" was born. Being a syndicated cartoon show, they made the logical decision to have multiple overseas studios animate, and this carried over to its sister show "Animaniacs" as well. My all-time favorite was definitely TMS Entertainment. They had very high-quality animation and on-model character designs (I especially like how they drew Buster and Plucky.) and resembled a cross between classic 1940s/1950s WB cartoons and early 1990s anime in terms of animation. I also enjoyed Startoons' work (I think they had cute designs for Buster, Babs, Plucky and Skippy Squirrel). I thought Wang wasn't too bad for most part, and AKOM also had decent animation at times.
As for Kennedy Cartoons... oh god, I don't even know where to start! But I CAN note that for me, that studio varies on a case-to-case basis. I loved Kennedy Cartoons's work on "Best O' Plucky Duck Day" and "Gang Busters," didn't mind it that much in "The Looney Beginning," "Inside Plucky Duck" and "Fields of Honey," wasn't too big on it in "Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow," "Buster and the Wolverine," "The Acme Bowl" and "High Toon." And I ESPECIALLY disliked their work in "Who Bopped Bugs Bunny." Even as a kid, Kennedy's animation stuck out and I thought it was kinda weird to see Buster, Babs and Plucky bouncing around and shuffling their feet. But at least it beats Freelance Graphics's weirdo designs and animation, IMHO.

But on the subject for Kennedy Cartoons, I DID enjoy the influence on "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo." Now mind you, "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo" was animated overseas by Wang Film Productions/Cuckoo's Nest Studios, but during the first season, Glen Kennedy was the animation director at Wang for this series. So naturally his quirks and gimmicks show up, but at least I like watching them do it on the "Pup" series because you expect them to, and most of the time it seemed more in control. The "Hagar the Horrible" TV special that H-B produced around the same time also had Glen Kennedy as animation director at Wang, so the same things occured here (one scene even had Hagar doing one of the trademark "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo"-esque dance moves!) But for the second season of "A Pup Named Scooby-Doo," Glen Kennedy left the show (obviously to open his own studio), so Wang completely took over the animation production and the look and feel changed quite a bit; colors became somewhat faded and Kennedy's quirks, save for some recycled dancing animation, had all but disappeared. And Kennedy Cartoons did a great job with "Tales of Worm Paranoia" as well.
As for Kennedy's work on Disney, it varied. "Darkwing Duck" often had the same problems as Tiny Toons' Kennedy episodes did. It looked a bit better in "Goof Troop," "Bonkers" and "Aladdin."

Marvel Productions also got into the overseas animation game in the mid-1980s. For many of their shows they did in the mid-1980s, Toei Animation did the animation productions, most notably for "G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero," "Muppet Babies" and "The Transformers." They had some errors/mistakes show up during their earlier episodes (kids on "G.I. Joe" would change clothes or even SKIN COLOR between shots, Baby Animal's face would turn orange on occasion, etc.) By 1986 the animation was much more refined and professional-looking. But in 1987, Marvel must have broken off their deal with Toei, and as a result, all their shows' animation was switched to AKOM Productions because it was cheaper. So the quality (especially on "Transformers") quickly went downhill. AKOM's work on "Muppet Babies" wasn't too bad in the 1988-1989 season IMO, but the 1990-1991 season had some REALLY bad animation.

Today, Warner Bros. Animation pretty much doesn't send their work to Rough Draft Studios anymore. The last time they did was with those atrocious Looney Tunes shorts Sander Schwartz and company did in 2003-2004. Nowadays, it seems they send almost all their output to DongWoo Animation in Korea. Sometimes they'll send something to Yearim Productions, sometimes to Lotto Animation, and sometimes even to Toon City Animation (usually if it involves classic characters like the Looney Tunes), but most of the time it's now almost always DongWoo Animation. Why not hire Wang Film Productions again? Sure they're not as great with "full" animation (like "Duck Dodgers Jr." or "Scooby-Doo's Arabian Nights" or the Games Animation "Ren & Stimpy" episodes they animated), but at least they've had more experience than DongWoo and Yearim, IMO.

And DON'T get me started on the Simpsons' takes/parodies on Korean animation! :p

[cbrubaker]

How come nobody gets their animation done at Carbunke Cartoons (http://www.carbunklecartoons.com/) anymore? For those who don't know, this is Bob Jaques' studio known for it's quality work for the "Ren and Stimpy Show".
Probably too costly. Remember the "George and Junior" revival from What a Cartoon? Apparently they wanted to have the animation done at Carbunkle, but it was too expensive, so it was sent to cheaper Fil-Cartoons instead.

Carbunkle's name did show up in the credits of one episode of "The Marvelous Misadventures of Flapjack", but only for sheet-timing, not animation (which is being done at Saerom in Korea).

[Bugsy-Kun]

I think DiC Entertainment may have been one of the first North American cartoon studios that had most of its output animated to Japan. "Inspector Gadget" was primarily animated by TMS Entertainment during the first season, but a handful of episodes (such as "Down on the Farm," "Amusement Park," "Art Heist," "So it is Written," etc.) were outsourced to Wang Film Productions/Cuckoo's Nest Studios in Taiwan. So as a result, the Taiwan-animated episodes had a lower quality to them and stuck out like a sore thumb. At least they drew a rather good Penny and Brain. And for the TMS-animated episodes, I am sure they must've had more than one animation director; some episodes (like "The Curse of the Pharaoh," "The Coo-Coo Clock Caper" and "Did You Myth Me?") had a higher quality than usual, with more rounded designs and fuller animation similar to the "Tiny Toon Adventures" and "Animaniacs" episodes TMS animated; while others resembled "Lupin the Third" or a very well-produced Anime series meant to imitate American animation. But TMS didn't just animate "Inspector Gadget." DiC also had "Heathcliff and the Catillac Cats" and "The Littles" animation handled by TMS as well. However, TMS again only animated the first season of "Heathcliff" (and Wang handled a few episodes), but "The Littles" was completely animated by TMS throughout the show's entire run (because unlike "Heathcliff" and "Gadget," "The Littles" was a Saturday morning cartoon on ABC). So while "The Littles" had a uniform and consistent look to its animation, "Gadget" and "Heathcliff" changed a bit in the second season. Apparently DiC thought TMS was becoming rather expensive to outsource all their stuff to, so in 1985 TMS only animated "The Littles," while they sent "Gadget" and "Heathcliff" to other Japanese studios, resulting in a very Anime-like look and feel to those other two shows, while "The Littles" still looked like something Disney could have done.


I know when i was a kid that Heatchliff and Inspector Gadget was inspired to the Anime heydays style. That was shocked me in the first season is the character's designs. Some being normal but the ones you mentionned from TMS looks a bit odd to me but that's don't stop that i watch it.

About Inspector Gadget, this series having a international collaboration with the USA, France, Taiwan, Japan and even... the Canada. For the Canada, it was more for the dubbing voices if i remind or the rights licence, but Dic don't do that anymore.

[The "Chase"]

. For the Canada, it was more for the dubbing voices if i remind or the rights licence, but Dic don't do that anymore.

Don't remind me...

[Studio Toledo]

Not sure. I DO know that Carbunkle Cartoons did some animation for that "Tales of Worm Paranoia" What-A-Cartoon short back in 1996, the rest of the animation was done by Kennedy Cartoons (yes, the same one from Tiny Toon Adventures!)
I think Carbunkle also the the short-lived Baby Huey Show I've saw an episode or two back in the 90's.

And for the TMS-animated episodes, I am sure they must've had more than one animation director; some episodes (like "The Curse of the Pharaoh," "The Coo-Coo Clock Caper" and "Did You Myth Me?") had a higher quality than usual, with more rounded designs and fuller animation similar to the "Tiny Toon Adventures" and "Animaniacs" episodes TMS animated; while others resembled "Lupin the Third" or a very well-produced Anime series meant to imitate American animation. But TMS didn't just animate "Inspector Gadget." DiC also had "Heathcliff and the Catillac Cats" and "The Littles" animation handled by TMS as well. However, TMS again only animated the first season of "Heathcliff" (and Wang handled a few episodes), but "The Littles" was completely animated by TMS throughout the show's entire run (because unlike "Heathcliff" and "Gadget," "The Littles" was a Saturday morning cartoon on ABC).
Plus they didn't have as many episodes to work with.

So while "The Littles" had a uniform and consistent look to its animation, "Gadget" and "Heathcliff" changed a bit in the second season. Apparently DiC thought TMS was becoming rather expensive to outsource all their stuff to, so in 1985 TMS only animated "The Littles," while they sent "Gadget" and "Heathcliff" to other Japanese studios, resulting in a very Anime-like look and feel to those other two shows, while "The Littles" still looked like something Disney could have done.
I remember noticing that happening by that point. Let alone the rather odd-looking video transfers made of several DIC shows in '86 that resembled those anime VHS/LD releases of the day. Remember noticing some studios like AIC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anime_International_Company) worked on these shows too.

Incidentally, Disney also outsourced many of their TV cartoons to TMS during the 1980s, such as with "Gummi Bears," "DuckTales," "The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh" and "Chip and Dale Rescue Rangers." I think this was a smart idea, since Disney wanted their TV cartoons to be of very high-quality.
This is quite true. And probably why they stayed out of the TV cartoon biz long enough until it became viable to do so. Prior to the start of those shows, the thought of seeing a Disney-made cartoon on TV (either on Saturdays or weekdays) was such a luxurious idea.

In 1989, Disney and TMS must have broken off their deal, because by this time Disney opened their own company, Walt Disney Television Animation Australia, for outsourcing animation production to. They also wound up hiring other studios such as Wang, Sunwoo, etc.
Seemed like it was never the same in the 90's when that happened.

Naturally, with Disney having wild success with their TV animation studio ("The New Adventures of Winnie the Pooh" even won an Emmy award!), Warner Bros. wanted to compete. Thus "Tiny Toon Adventures" was born. Being a syndicated cartoon show, they made the logical decision to have multiple overseas studios animate, and this carried over to its sister show "Animaniacs" as well. My all-time favorite was definitely TMS Entertainment. They had very high-quality animation and on-model character designs (I especially like how they drew Buster and Plucky.) and resembled a cross between classic 1940s/1950s WB cartoons and early 1990s anime in terms of animation.
I often felt TMS was the defualt "go-to" guys for that sort of thing. If you couldn't get them, you were stuck with the others and just have to bear it.

[quote]I also enjoyed Startoons' work (I think they had cute designs for Buster, Babs, Plucky and Skippy Squirrel). I thought Wang wasn't too bad for most part, and AKOM also had decent animation at times.
Too often I equate this sort of thing to how those 60's Popeye cartoons were done, but not as disconnected. I still don't care for some fo those Wang/Cuckoo's Nest episodes that had that thick etchy lines as if the guys who did those were still in the "Mighty Mouse; The New Advs." mindset.

As for Kennedy Cartoons... oh god, I don't even know where to start! But I CAN note that for me, that studio varies on a case-to-case basis. I loved Kennedy Cartoons's work on "Best O' Plucky Duck Day" and "Gang Busters," didn't mind it that much in "The Looney Beginning," "Inside Plucky Duck" and "Fields of Honey," wasn't too big on it in "Hare Today, Gone Tomorrow," "Buster and the Wolverine," "The Acme Bowl" and "High Toon." And I ESPECIALLY disliked their work in "Who Bopped Bugs Bunny." Even as a kid, Kennedy's animation stuck out and I thought it was kinda weird to see Buster, Babs and Plucky bouncing around and shuffling their feet. But at least it beats Freelance Graphics's weirdo designs and animation, IMHO.
Oh Glen Kennedy and his little quirks!

Marvel Productions also got into the overseas animation game in the mid-1980s. For many of their shows they did in the mid-1980s, Toei Animation did the animation productions, most notably for "G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero," "Muppet Babies" and "The Transformers." They had some errors/mistakes show up during their earlier episodes (kids on "G.I. Joe" would change clothes or even SKIN COLOR between shots, Baby Animal's face would turn orange on occasion, etc.) By 1986 the animation was much more refined and professional-looking. But in 1987, Marvel must have broken off their deal with Toei, and as a result, all their shows' animation was switched to AKOM Productions because it was cheaper.
I guess Nelson Shin had his way!

[quote]So the quality (especially on "Transformers") quickly went downhill. AKOM's work on "Muppet Babies" wasn't too bad in the 1988-1989 season IMO, but the 1990-1991 season had some REALLY bad animation.
I remember the 1987-88 season, their first, as being pretty terrible!

Today, Warner Bros. Animation pretty much doesn't send their work to Rough Draft Studios anymore. The last time they did was with those atrocious Looney Tunes shorts Sander Schwartz and company did in 2003-2004. Nowadays, it seems they send almost all their output to DongWoo Animation in Korea. Sometimes they'll send something to Yearim Productions, sometimes to Lotto Animation, and sometimes even to Toon City Animation (usually if it involves classic characters like the Looney Tunes), but most of the time it's now almost always DongWoo Animation.
Another studio I'm not too familiar with, I stopped caring of this sort of thing long ago.

Why not hire Wang Film Productions again? Sure they're not as great with "full" animation (like "Duck Dodgers Jr." or "Scooby-Doo's Arabian Nights" or the Games Animation "Ren & Stimpy" episodes they animated), but at least they've had more experience than DongWoo and Yearim, IMO.
Who knows, changing times perhaps.

And DON'T get me started on the Simpsons' takes/parodies on Korean animation! :p
I always had the impression the joke of one of those episodes is that Kent went to a North Korean studio, but those gags were pretty dumb.

[Studio Toledo]

I know when i was a kid that Heatchliff and Inspector Gadget was inspired to the Anime heydays style. That was shocked me in the first season is the character's designs. Some being normal but the ones you mentionned from TMS looks a bit odd to me but that's don't stop that i watch it.

About Inspector Gadget, this series having a international collaboration with the USA, France, Taiwan, Japan and even... the Canada. For the Canada, it was more for the dubbing voices if i remind or the rights licence, but Dic don't do that anymore.
This was back when DIC was formerly a French company that at that point in time set up a US office and went about producing cartoons or the American market, later Andy Heyward bought out the entire thing and it became an American company from then on (now it is owned by Canadian-based Cookie Jar Group).