Jerry Beck - internet radio discussion - Wednesday, January 28, 7:00 PM EST

[grundle]

link (http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/news/Site-News-Stu%27s-Show-Jerry-Beck/11214)

[Brandon Panther]

The question I had for Jerry was already answered via e-mail, in regards to his upcoming book on the 100 greatest WB cartoons, so this time I won't be calling in. Nobody will have to worry about me tying up the phone lines like last week.

[frizfrelengfan]

I hope he talks about the future of Looney Tunes on DVD. The promotion makes it sound as though he will.

[LTS]

According to that link Jerry is going to discuss whether the LTGC will continue. That has given me a good feeling, considering for 7 months we've all thought that V6 was the last and now he's going to be discussing the GC series.

I hope it does continue as its a truely remarkable series of sets.

[Duck Dodgers]

It is now a GAC tradition to post here answers and questions LIVE so let's do it again;)

I'd want to hear more about the future of LTs on DVD, when Popeye 4 will come out (I can hardly wait for it!!) and IF we'll soon have the third Woody set.
I also hope there are plans for a Columbia cartoons dvd release (I'm aware froma friend that a complete UPA set should have to come out this year)

[Leviathan]

Well, technically the next Popeye set will be the 4th volume.

I have a Political science class in the evening now and won't be able to post the first 15-20 minutes or so of Jerry's chat. After that should be fine

[Leviathan]

It's going to happen in a few minutes. I'm currently watching a documentary on John Adams, so I'm precluded from reporting on the first half-hour or so of news. I'll pick up on proceedings when I'm done.

[nickramer]

No actual Looney Tunes set this year, unfortuantly.
Edit: No Popeye set either.

[LTS]

^

same with Popeye.

[Daff Doc]

No Looney Tunes* set planned for '09.


*Movie collections & Saturday Morning boxset excluded.
:bugs1: :daffy: :ham:

[Jeffitarian]

I guess I can pick up some of the slack here for the first half hour or so.

Well...the Golden Collections are indeed "finished with", due to various factors (sales being one of them). Also, no "dedicated" Looney Tunes DVD releases for the rest of this year. Even someone such as myself who isn't a completely rabid Looney Tunes fan finds that disappointing...:(

Also, no Popeye collection for this year either due to the usual economic reasons. WTF?

But... Warners is supposed to be releasing both dedicated Looney Tunes and Popeye DVD collections next year.

Sounds like a rather sparse year for GAC fans.

[The "Chase"]

Well, here's hope Quackbusters come out soon...

Edit: HOLY CRAP, MIGHTY MOUSE!

[Geezil]

Edit: No Popeye set either.

Well, at least we can hope to see "We're On Our Way to Rio" with fully restored opening and closing in Volume 4 next year. :)

[Daff Doc]

Terrytoons news!!
:mighty: :gandy:

[Jeffitarian]

I'll stop posting *news* now as to avoid repeats.

Take it away folks!

[Geezil]

OMG

Terrytoons from CBS Video?

[Leviathan]

That's dire. Not even 2-disc sets.

Were any reasons given (I've still got my hands tied by the Boston Massacre)

as far as possible Terrytoon releases go, eh, whatever.

[Jeffitarian]

That's dire. Not even 2-disc sets.

Were any reasons given (I've still got my hands tied by the Boston Massacre)

It sounds like the ususal Big Three reasons for canceling/reducing planned DVD sets: Sales, sales, sales. Plus the current toilet economy can't be helping matters much either.

[Leviathan]

Warner announced layoffs of 800 jobs. The economy sounds like the biggest factor.

So, if there are not sets this year, does this mean the actual restoration of shorts had grinded to a halt?

[Daff Doc]

New material on " :woody: Favorites" set.

[The "Chase"]

Woody Woodpecker and Friends v.3 is a possibility folks! :)

[Geezil]

as far as possible Terrytoon releases go, eh, whatever.

Duel after the show. Outside. Choose yer weppins. ;)

[Jeffitarian]

New material on " :woody: Favorites" set.

Double dipping! ARG! I'd much rather have a Volume Three of "Woody Woodpecker and Friends".

[Speedy Boris]

No LT sets? What am I going to buy come October/November? :(

[Jeffitarian]

Warner announced layoffs of 800 jobs. The economy sounds like the biggest factor.

So, if there are not sets this year, does this mean the actual restoration of shorts had grinded to a halt?

It's my impression that a lot of the Looney Tunes have already been restored and are waiting future DVD releases.

[Brandon Panther]

No Bugs Bunny Show on the Saturday set? PASS!

[Jeffitarian]

Stu sounds like he's getting a wee bit agitated about the Saturday Morning collections...;)

[The "Chase"]

No LT sets? What am I going to buy come October/November? :(

What about those Anime DVDs you always review? ;)

Well, I heard there will be two Quick Draw Mcgraw epsiodes (or shorts, can't remember) in the Saturday Morning DVD.

[Leviathan]

Saturday Morning Cartoon News:

No Flinstones Comedy Hour, No Scooby Laff-a-Lympics, No Bugs Bunny Show, No Bugs/Road Runner, and no Tom and Jerry show. condition of elements to blame.

2 Quick Draw McGraw episodes, which WILL have Augie Doggie and Snooper and Blabber.

[Jeffitarian]

I was thinking about getting the 1970s Saturday morning collection, but with the exclusion of "The Tom and Jerry Show", I don't know anymore...

[The "Chase"]

I like Stu, he's silly. :p

Edit: That's show business for ya...

And the fun begins now...

[Brandon Panther]

The only thing I'll disagree with Stu on, and that's The Flintstones live-action movie was pretty good. My only complaint was Rosie O'Donnel playing Betty, but other than that, I liked the film.

[Speedy Boris]

Saturday Morning Cartoon News:

No Flinstones Comedy Hour, No Scooby Laff-a-Lympics, No Bugs Bunny Show, No Bugs/Road Runner, and no Tom and Jerry show. condition of elements to blame. So wait, that info we got only days ago about Bugs Bunny appearing on those Saturday Morning Collections was false? If so, wow. (Though that also explains why that series was absent from the trailers)

[Leviathan]

BTW, was anything said about the forthcoming Fleischer Superman set?

[Jeffitarian]

Now we're being teased with a *possible* release of the Censored 11...I'll believe this when I see it.

[Jeffitarian]

BTW, was anything said about the forthcoming Fleischer Superman set?

Excellent picture quality (remastered from original film material) with a documentary to boot.

[nickramer]

If Jerry is reading this, I was being sincere, but I was making way with the next caller. Plus I have autism, and my tones sorta sound the same on the phone soemtimes. Sorry for the confussion.

[tristar]

Any news on Jerry's forthcoming "100 Greatest WB Cartoons Book"?

[Geezil]

Any news on Jerry's forthcoming "100 Greatest WB Cartoons Book"?

Jerry covered that in the first part of the show. (In short, we have until this netcast ends to add any more lists at Cartoon Brew.)

[Matthew Hunter]

I give up on calling in. All I get is a busy signal.

[Brandon Panther]

I give up on calling in. All I get is a busy signal.
The best time to try and call in is towards the end of a person's call. Of coarse guessing when another person's call is going to end is a total crap-shoot.

[Philo & Gunge]

I give up on calling in. All I get is a busy signal.
Well, not anymore. :D

[The "Chase"]

I give up on calling in. All I get is a busy signal.

O RLY?

[Jeffitarian]

Hey, Matthew got in!

[Geezil]

Now, could everyone please let Jerry speak about Terrytoons tonight? :eek:

[Philo & Gunge]

Now, could everyone please let Jerry speak about Terrytoons tonight? :eek:
Maybe you should call in as soon as Matt gets off. ;)

[Leviathan]

Jerry should do a History of Terrytoons series on Cartoon Brew when he has time

[Geezil]

Maybe you should call in as soon as Matt gets off. ;)

Another time, probably. (Full disclosure: I'm told my calmest baritone voice rattles the walls. Something else to work through.)

[Matthew Hunter]

Well, made it after all. That's kind of cool.:)

[Geezil]

Jerry should do a History of Terrytoons series on Cartoon Brew when he has time

We can but hope. :D

[Brandon Panther]

Another time, probably. (Full disclosure: I'm told my calmest baritone voice rattles the walls. Something else to work through.)
You're voice is probably still worlds better than mine. It's higher than Stu's. And I lisp.

[Geezil]

Holy Fudd, it's Ray! (Too bad he'll be speaking offline now.)

[Brandon Panther]

What the crap was up with the caller who was afraid of making Jerry Beck mad?

[John Pannozzi]

So, what specific details were given on the upcoming Mighty Mouse DVD?

[nickramer]

What the crap was up with the caller who was afraid of making Jerry Beck mad?
Which person? Me, who talked about unmade Warner shorts and the ABC owned Chuck Jones series?

[Brandon Panther]

Which person? Me, who talked about unmade Warner shorts and the ABC owned Chuck Jones series?
Nah not you. The one who called in just before Ray did (before the last commercial break). He said he was afraid to ask Jerry a question because he might get mad, and then mentioned June Foray and then... Stu went to a break.

[Daff Doc]

It was me!:o

[Jon Cooke]

Wow, sounds like kind of a depressing show. No BB Shows on the Saturday Morning sets? No Popeye or LT sets this year? Bah. :mad: :( :ysam:

Sounds like I will be saving some money this year. :scrooge:

Can somebody post a full recap? Thanks!!

[nickramer]

Jerry hinted that we might see Terrytoons' Ring Mouseter on DVD this year.:mighty:

Yeah, I know. Lame pun.

[Glowworm]

Damn-no Looney Tunes this year? Aww-that's what always got me all excited every year because I couldn't wait to find out what cartoons were going to be on it.:(

[Jon Cooke]

Did Jerry happen to mention if the H-B shows in the Saturday morning set will have their theme songs, bumpers, etc (Quick Draw, Potamus, Magilla, etc)?

[Bradskey]

Damn-no Looney Tunes this year? Aww-that's what always got me all excited every year because I couldn't wait to find out what cartoons were going to be on it.:(

Wow, so this is the exciting LT news for 2009: NO news. Well we've had our plenty, let the year of famine commence.

[Bugsy-Kun]

I didn't listen it because i was busy with my new chair but i'm terribly disappointed to learn that no new Looney Tunes and Popeye DVD's was coming this year. I guess this ecomocical crisis is very crucial for the home video distributors.

I'm gonna listen it over the weekend if i can have lucks.

[zavkram]

Well, I tuned in tonight to Shokus Radio for the very first time... I'm something of a novice when it comes to using internet radio. Slightly OT: It was great hearing what Matthew Hunter and Ray Pointer actually sound like.

Yeah, I also thought that Stu was really getting passionate about those Saturday Morning DVD sets. He's a great host, but I really wish he would stop jumping in while Jerry is still talking; that gets kind of annoying after awhile!

I know I won't be purchasing either of those "SM" sets anytime soon; not if there are no Bugs Bunny Show eps on them... and forget about Hal Seeger's "Porky Pig Show"; I've already stated my reasons for disliking those (I was also pleasantly surprised, BTW, to hear that Stu feels exactly the same way). I'm still holding out for a stand-alone "Quick-Draw" set and the complete Seasons 1 and 2 of The Bugs Bunny Show.

I also was happy to hear that a TerryToons set might be forthcoming. I'm not a huge fan, mind you, but I always thought the early MM cartoons weren't bad.

So with the exception of the forthcoming Superman and SM sets from WHV and the Platinum Edition of Pinocchio from Disney, it looks like it's going to be slim pickings for 2009.

[Speedy Boris]

I know I won't be purchasing either of those "SM" sets anytime soon; not if there are no Bugs Bunny Show eps on them... and forget about Hal Seeger's "Porky Pig Show"; I've already stated my reasons for disliking those (I was also pleasantly surprised, BTW, to hear that Stu feels exactly the same way). I'm still holding out for a stand-alone "Quick-Draw" set and the complete Seasons 1 and 2 of The Bugs Bunny Show. Same. I was sort of considering the '60s set, at least, because of the possibility of Bugs Bunny Show stuff, but since they won't be on there (and the only non-Golden Collection short will be "Mice Follies"), I won't be bothering.

[Bugsmer]

I'm kind of relieved at this news. I was getting worried that I'd have to wait to next year to buy some of this stuff anyway (we're being hit pretty hard), so it's very intelligent of Warner to wait a year to see what happens. A lot can happen in a year.

[Jeffitarian]

So with the exception of the forthcoming Superman and SM sets from WHV and the Platinum Edition of Pinocchio from Disney, it looks like it's going to be slim pickings for 2009.

Up to this point, yes. I'm hoping that as the year draws on and Jerry comes back on Stu's show in June, there will be some more tidbits regarding other possible Golden Age releases for this year. You never know...

Plus, isn't there another wave of WDTs for the end of the year?

Also, who knows what 2009 holds for the likes of Thunderbean and the other independent animation distributors we all know and love?

I haven't completely abandoned hope for needed releases of good quality animation on DVD, *yet*.

[Matthew Hunter]

I didn't like the sound of CN being disappointed with the LT marathon because it attracted a bunch of adult viewers. Oh well, there's always DVD. Just...not this year. Depressing show, but it was fun to be on it!

[cartoonfan4ever]

It's a shame to find out that there will be no LT DVDs this year. I was hoping to find out how the lay out will be (all the cartoons on the DVD has the same character? Or a mix? A 2 DVD set? etc.).

[Fibber Fox]

I know I won't be purchasing either of those "SM" sets anytime soon; not if there are no Bugs Bunny Show eps on them... and forget about Hal Seeger's "Porky Pig Show"; I've already stated my reasons for disliking those (I was also pleasantly surprised, BTW, to hear that Stu feels exactly the same way). I'm still holding out for a stand-alone "Quick-Draw" set and the complete Seasons 1 and 2 of The Bugs Bunny Show.

Well, I wasn't listening because, um, I was doing my own radio show.

I'd love to get a Quick Draw set but clearing the music would be a pain even if Irma Loose isn't holding out for a windfall for DVD rights to such hits as TC 432. I think there are at least a half-dozen composers involved, not including the late Hoyt Curtin.

Since there won't be a Golden Collection, and any Universal collection wouldn't have a lot that interests me, I can still spend my money on cartoons I haven't purchased yet. I still haven't bought the first Popeye set. Of course, I still haven't found time to watch everything I own now.

F. Fox

[WoodpeckerWoody]

Wow, so this is the exciting LT news for 2009: NO news. Well we've had our plenty, let the year of famine commence.

This year is 29 days old so plans can change. But the economic doesn't help.

[ebrand11]

I didn't like the sound of CN being disappointed with the LT marathon because it attracted a bunch of adult viewers. Oh well, there's always DVD. Just...not this year. Depressing show, but it was fun to be on it!
So I guess no Lt on TV, either CN or Boomerang in the near future?

[Larry T]

Hm. Disappointing news about Popeye and LT. Those are two sets I was really anticipating, especially for all the color Popeyes.

But good to hear about Woody Vol. 3, and Terrytoons??? who'd have thunk! :cool:

Just as Jon said, this will give me a chance to save my money, and also finally catch up on watching all the sets I did buy from last year.

[cpdavison]

Hm. Disappointing news about Popeye and LT. Those are two sets I was really anticipating, especially for all the color Popeyes.

But good to hear about Woody Vol. 3, and Terrytoons??? who'd have thunk! :cool:

Just as Jon said, this will give me a chance to save my money, and also finally catch up on watching all the sets I did buy from last year.

Less competition from WHV might equal an opportunity for our favorite independent cartoon video producers.

Opportunity knocks in 2009, guys!

(I hope.)

Craig D.

[Brandon Panther]

It was me!:o
What was it you were going to ask Jerry? I'm just morbidly curious.

[grundle]

I've said this in other threads, and I'll say it again now. The reason that sales for LTGC have been low is because they aren't offering what people want. The last release had a whole disc of Bosko and Buddy, and another disc of World War II cartoons with almost no recognizable characters.

Previous sets having 11 Road Runners in a row, or a bunch of Speedys in a row, well, that's not what people want either. People want a variety of characters on each disc. They want a Bugs cartoon, followed by a Tweety and Sylvester cartoon, followed by a wolf and sheepdog cartoon, and then a Daffy cartoon, then another Bugs cartoon, then a Marc Antony and Pussyfoot cartoon, etc.

Since most of you people who post here are completists and/or historians, I don't think you have any idea how turned off people were with the contents of Vol 6.

Make a set that people actually want, and it will sell very well.

A single sided, double layer DVD can hold 4 hours - that's over 30 cartoons. So why not release 10 such discs, each containing every cartoon from a single year, say, try doing 1948-1957? Sell each disc by itself with a suggested price of $19.99. Those will sell very well.

[Ray Pointer]

I've said this in other threads, and I'll say it again now. The reason that sales for LTGC have been low is because they aren't offering what people want. The last release had a whole disc of Bosko and Buddy, and another disc of World War II cartoons with almost no recognizable characters.

Previous sets having 11 Road Runners in a row, or a bunch of Speedys in a row, well, that's not what people want either. People want a variety of characters on each disc. They want a Bugs cartoon, followed by a Tweety and Sylvester cartoon, followed by a wolf and sheepdog cartoon, and then a Daffy cartoon, then another Bugs cartoon, then a Marc Antony and Pussyfoot cartoon, etc. Since most of you people who post here are completists and/or historians, I don't think you have any idea how turned off people were with the contents of Vol 6. Make a set that people actually want, and it will sell very well.

A single sided, double layer DVD can hold 4 hours - that's over 30 cartoons. So why not release 10 such discs, each containing every cartoon from a single year, say, try doing 1948-1957? Sell each disc by itself with a suggested price of $19.99. Those will sell very well.

You are preaching to the choir by saying this. You need to express this to the Home Video Division at Time-Warner to let them know that the people making the decisions are not making the right choices.

[Daff Doc]

What was it you were going to ask Jerry? I'm just morbidly curious.

I was trying to call in during the break just to chat about a couple things with Jerry And Stu. I was afraid of angering him because I had contacted him thru some...unorthadox means in the past and what I had to say contributed to that. But it's all :cool: now!

[grundle]

You are preaching to the choir by saying this. You need to express this to the Home Video Division at Time-Warner to let them know that the people making the decisions are not making the right choices.

Really? I thought everyone here loved LTGC Vol 6.

I guess maybe they do, but they still understand my point of view too.

[Jack G.]

Terrytoons?
Well, I didn't see that coming. That's good. Hopefully it'll be like the Woody sets with other characters included.

It's truely a bummer that there's no LTs this year.
I just hope there's plans for more releases.
Was looking forward to the early color Popeyes.

I didn't like the sound of CN being disappointed with the LT marathon because it attracted a bunch of adult viewers.What's wrong with adults? :mad:
We by crap too! :rolleyes:

[ohmahaaha]

No Looney Tunes release this year is exceedingly depressing ... :(

That's all I got for this thread.

[Leviathan]

I'm listening to the replay of Jerry's show.

It sounds like Warner HAS DVD plans for Looney Tunes and is still restoring the cartoons, but has put their release plans on hold for a year. It happens.

A year delay for the Popeyes will likewise give Warners more time to hunt down soundtracks for the color cartoons (and hopefully undo the mutilations brought on by a.a.p.)

[pablo]

I can't believe they would not release a Looney Tunes set this year, after giving us a 4-disc treasure-trove each year. Not fair! And Popeye? I thought all these sets were exctremely popular.

[Mark J]

This is pretty depressing news. If they really plan to continue LTs as any kind of series I doubt they would not release any this year, this could be the end of dedicated LT DVD sets. Warner must be in bad shape and it probably won't get much better the next year.

Interesting news about Terrytoons - if they put together a nice sampler set, 2 or 3 discs of the best Terrytoons with a mix of Mighty Mouse, Heckle & Jeckle and samplings of 40s fare like Roqueford and some of the later stuff that would be interesting. A big set of one character from Terry would be awful - there was way too much repetition and formula at that studio to watch large numbers of any one character. Maltin has a good point when he says it is hard to distinguish a late 30's Terry from a mid 50s Terry because they were so rigid in everything down to the animation style.

[Speedy Boris]

It sounds like Warner HAS DVD plans for Looney Tunes and is still restoring the cartoons, but has put their release plans on hold for a year. It happens. Still, it's pretty disappointing, especially since it was said that there -were- plans for LT in 2009. Obviously plans can fall through due to sales and such, especially in this economic climate, so it's not like I'm calling Jerry Beck a liar (plus, it's not like he promised or anything), but it doesn't make it any less disappointing.

[stupiddimbulb]

Exactly how do you know what would make a LTGC sell well?

[Brandon Panther]

Exactly how do you know what would make a LTGC sell well?
Someone a few months ago, also pointed out that the only way any casual Looney Tunes fan would know what's on the sets, is if they went online, and researched the listings, read plot lines, to see if they are cartoons they remember fondly...

But I doubt that.

[Geezil]

Interesting news about Terrytoons - if they put together a nice sampler set, 2 or 3 discs of the best Terrytoons with a mix of Mighty Mouse, Heckle & Jeckle and samplings of 40s fare like Roqueford and some of the later stuff that would be interesting.

Gosh, do you mean something like this (http://forums.goldenagecartoons.com/showthread.php?t=2362)? ;)

[Leviathan]

Nah. I think a Terrytoons set would sell best if it adhered to the Woody Woodpecker model and contained 2/3's Mighty Mouse cartoons and divvied up the remaining 1/3 between the rest.

As far as the doomed Fleischer's go; Lionsgate and Paramount have has apparently licensed some of their films to The Criterion Collection. That's probably our best shot at seeing a good DVD of those shorts.

[Mark J]

Nah. I think a Terrytoons set would sell best if it adhered to the Woody Woodpecker model and contained 2/3's Mighty Mouse cartoons and divvied up the remaining 1/3 between the rest.

A set with 2/3 Mighty Mouse would drive the average viewer insane, how many times can you watch him coming to 'save the day'?. That is way too much Mighty Mouse for anyone but a rabid fan - 2/3 Heckel & Jeckel would be better than 2/3 Mighty Mouse, even 2/3 Deputy Dawg would be better. Mighty Mouse had no personality and his toons are all the same over a long span of years. Geezil's set above is a better variety, although the most digestable way would be just the first two discs.

[Thad]

A set with 2/3 Mighty Mouse would drive the average viewer insane, how many times can you watch him coming to 'save the day'?. That is way too much Mighty Mouse for anyone but a rabid fan. Mighty Mouse had no personality and his toons are all the same over a long span of years.

I used to think this too. Until I actually watched them. Clumsy as they are and though I'd never defend any of them as truly great, they are actually really interesting films with a melodramatic tone other studios just weren't using. It's hard to get bored with all of those mobsters, demons, singing perverts, and Tytla and Tyer running loose.:mighty:

[Mark J]

Thanks Thad - I haven't seen too many of these as an adult, but used to watch them on TV constantly as a kid, so I might have a different perspective now. I was typing as that kid in 1978 who would watch two Mighty Mouse toons mainly for the theme song, waiting for a Heckle & Jeckle. Actually I will appreciate any configuration of Terrytoons they give us - Tytla and Tyer will be a bonus :)

[MarkTheShark]

Exactly how do you know what would make a LTGC sell well?

I got a shocker when I went to some other non-cartoon-oriented DVD forums and read what people were saying about the Looney Tunes collections. No one can agree, it seems. Some want no pre-1948s, just the ones they remember from Saturday mornings (this is probably the contingent that had the temper tantrum over "What's Opera Doc" and "One Froggy Evening" not being on the first volume). But I couldn't believe how many said "I just want ONLY the Bugs Bunny cartoons," or "I just want ONLY the Road Runner cartoons," or "I just want ONLY the Foghorn Leghorn cartoons." In hindsight, it may have been better if these had been handled like the Disney Treasures. For me personally, I would have been okay with that, if they had gone that route -- if they eventually released everything. But I think a set of just Bugs Bunny or whoever would get pretty redundant after a while -- and then what do you do with the ones that feature Porky and Daffy, or Daffy and Elmer, or Daffy and Bugs, or Daffy and Foghorn Leghorn, or Bugs Bunny and Wile E. Coyote, or...

(I used to get the Gold Key comic books when I was a kid -- and I quickly got bored with the segregated issues of just Bugs Bunny, just Tweety & Sylvester, just Daffy Duck, etc. -- not to mention the depictions of the characters that didn't match their personalities in their cartoons. I looked forward to the "Looney Tunes" comic book itself, which featured a variety of characters -- that may have been the first place I remember seeing Cool Cat and Merlin, and not knowing who they were.)

Interesting how when the Disney Treasures "double dipped," sometimes you'd have for instance, I don't remember the name, but the first cartoon with Pluto was on a Mickey set with "recreated" titles, but on a Pluto collection with reissue titles. That was kind of cool.

As I've said before -- the Turner/WB merger was a double-edged sword. When you had all these separate companies, they each only had so much "catalog" to release. This is why a lot of relatively more obscure Hanna-Barbera shows were sampled on home video in the 1980s -- Worldvision did not at that time have the distribution rights to the Flintstones, Jetsons and early Scooby-Doo. The Golden Age Of Looney Tunes laser disc sets were as comprehensive as they were, because Turner was working with a collection of 300 plus cartoons, not 1,000 plus.

However -- without the merger, we wouldn't have the restored pre-1948s.

[Vdubdavid]

Well, it was a bit of a downer with no LT or Popeye this year, but we can credit Mr. Beck with breaking the news as gently as possible.

Besides, hearing Stu's reaction to the news of a CGI Tom & Jerry movie was hilarious ("want to know why the shorts were so successful? Because they are -- CARTOOOOONS!!!").

Anyway, at least we have the Superman collection to look forward to (although I'm a little uneasy at the fact that we still don't know if WHV has fixed some of the issues with the shorts as seen on IN2TV).

Mr. Beck, if you read this, I forgot to thank you and anyone else responsible for de-Blue Ribbonizing "Dog Gone South" and "A Ham in a Role" on LTGCv6, particularly the latter, giving it back its original Looney Tunes rings. I hope that gets to happen more often in the future.

So buck up everyone! As I said at the end of my call, Hail to the King of Cartoons!

[grundle]

Exactly how do you know what would make a LTGC sell well?

People want the stuff they already like watching on TV.

A set with Bugs, Daffy, Porky, Elmer, Sam, Tweety, Sylvester, Road Runner, Coyote, Speedy, Peppy, Foggy, Marvin the Martian, Tasmanian Deveil, Marc Antony and Pussyfoot, Hubie and Bertie, Claude Cat, Goofy Gophers, wolf and sheepdog, Ralph Phillips, Chuck Jones's Three Bears, One Froggy Evening, Three Little Bops, High Note, Puzzicato Pussycat, and I Love to Singa, with the ordering of the cartoons varied so no two consecutive cartoons have the same character, and only in original color, with nothing from after 1964, would sell very well. Those are the ones that people want. Sets that had those cartoons, and only those cartooons, would sell very, very, very well.

A smaller, but still substantial, number of people also want the black and white Porkys, so release all of those in a seperate set. That would sell reasonably well.

No one other than collectors and historians wants Buddy and Bosko, or a bunch of random 1930s cats singing and dancing, or a bunch of 1930s movie stars eating dinner at a nightclub. A very small number of people would buy a set with those.

When people want to watch Bugs Bunny, but they end up getting a whole disc of Buddy and Bosko instead, they are going to be very upset. LTGC Vol. 6 upset a lot of poeple who thought they were getting cartoons they liked, but instead, ended up getting stuff they can't stand.

[Chow Hound]

People want the stuff they already like watching on TV.

A set with Bugs, Daffy, Porky, Elmer, Sam, Tweety, Sylvester, Road Runner, Coyote, Speedy, Peppy, Foggy, Marvin the Martian, Tasmanian Deveil, Marc Antony and Pussyfoot, Hubie and Bertie, Claude Cat, Goofy Gophers, wolf and sheepdog, Ralph Phillips, Chuck Jones's Three Bears, One Froggy Evening, Three Little Bops, High Note, Puzzicato Pussycat, and I Love to Singa, with the ordering of the cartoons varied so no two consecutive cartoons have the same character, and only in original color, with nothing from after 1964, would sell very well. Those are the ones that people want. Sets that had those cartoons, and only those cartooons, would sell very, very, very well.

A smaller, but still substantial, number of people also want the black and white Porkys, so release all of those in a seperate set. That would sell reasonably well.

No one other than collectors and historians wants Buddy and Bosko, or a bunch of random 1930s cats singing and dancing, or a bunch of 1930s movie stars eating dinner at a nightclub. A very small number of people would buy a set with those.

When people want to watch Bugs Bunny, but they end up getting a whole disc of Buddy and Bosko instead, they are going to be very upset. LTGC Vol. 6 upset a lot of poeple who thought they were getting cartoons they liked, but instead, ended up getting stuff they can't stand.
Right on the nose. But you'd think WB would have figured this out and just changed the mix in the sets to drop the older stuff rather than canceling the whole thing. Seems a bit extreme.

[Bradskey]

When people want to watch Bugs Bunny, but they end up getting a whole disc of Buddy and Bosko instead, they are going to be very upset. LTGC Vol. 6 upset a lot of poeple who thought they were getting cartoons they liked, but instead, ended up getting stuff they can't stand.

I get what you're saying, but maybe people should be more open-minded. I'm not saying the black and whites are masterpieces, but some of them are interesting. They included one disc of early material on Vol 6 (although I'll admit a few of the choices are weak), and B&W Porky's on Vol. 5 I think and some random others on earlier sets. The complainers are probably some of the same people who are instantly turned off when they see a black and white film and won't even give it a chance -- I guess it couldn't possibly be good if its not in color, never mind many of the greatest cinema treasures and most fun thrillers date from the 30s. I don't understand a lack of curiosity about the past; it doesn't serve a person well.

Plus the golden collections have contained plenty of Bugs Bunny out the wazoo. :bugs2:

[Speedy Boris]

The thing about volume 6 is, Jerry pretty much knew it would be the final Golden Collection, so he strived to put as many rareities and oldies on there as possible, because there may never be another chance to do so.

And while that doesn't exactly entice the casual consumer who wants Bugs, Daffy, Road Runner, etc., I can see why he went that route. I have a feeling if the Golden Collections were still selling well, volume 6 likely would've been a more rounded set like vol. 1 and 3. Alas...

[grundle]

Right on the nose. But you'd think WB would have figured this out and just changed the mix in the sets to drop the older stuff rather than canceling the whole thing. Seems a bit extreme.

Thanks.

[grundle]

I get what you're saying, but maybe people should be more open-minded. I'm not saying the black and whites are masterpieces, but some of them are interesting. They included one disc of early material on Vol 6 (although I'll admit a few of the choices are weak), and B&W Porky's on Vol. 5 I think and some random others on earlier sets. The complainers are probably some of the same people who are instantly turned off when they see a black and white film and won't even give it a chance -- I guess it couldn't possibly be good if its not in color, never mind many of the greatest cinema treasures and most fun thrillers date from the 30s. I don't understand a lack of curiosity about the past; it doesn't serve a person well.

Plus the golden collections have contained plenty of Bugs Bunny out the wazoo. :bugs2:

I like the black and white Porkys, and I love some black and white movies.

The last LTGC hardly had any Bugs cartoons. The cover art was not anything close to an accurate reflection of what was contained in the set - it was very misleading.

[grundle]

The thing about volume 6 is, Jerry pretty much knew it would be the final Golden Collection, so he strived to put as many rareities and oldies on there as possible, because there may never be another chance to do so.

And while that doesn't exactly entice the casual consumer who wants Bugs, Daffy, Road Runner, etc., I can see why he went that route. I have a feeling if the Golden Collections were still selling well, volume 6 likely would've been a more rounded set like vol. 1 and 3. Alas...

There needs to be one line of releases aimed at mainstream fans, and another line of releases with those kinds of 1930s cartoons.

[grundle]

I am guessing that the next release will have all 100 of the cartoons listed in Jerry Beck's upcoming book.

[oceansoul]

I am guessing that the next release will have all 100 of the cartoons listed in Jerry Beck's upcoming book.

Yeah. Re-releasing 90 of the 100 LTs again makes sense, does it?

Seriously, LTGC was a wrong concept. The classics should have been made into the first two sets, and the popular character shorts should have been released under a different title. The censored 11 and the wartime cartoons (including the best ones) should have been released in an unique set as well. But noone cares for the rest.

It's a sad sad situation that Bosko and Buddy wasted the valuable space of our beloved Foggy. Mad and disappointed now. :befuddled

[WoodpeckerWoody]

I do think that Warners are shooting them selfs in the foot. If they do this.

[zavkram]

There needs to be one line of releases aimed at mainstream fans, and another line of releases with those kinds of 1930s cartoons.

Well wasn't that the original intent for releasing the concurrent "Spotlight Collections"; to include only those cartoons from the Golden Collection volumes that would appeal to kids and "soccer moms"?

[zavkram]

I am guessing that the next release will have all 100 of the cartoons listed in Jerry Beck's upcoming book.

I seriously doubt that; an enormous set like that would comprise at least six discs, allowing for generous extras like commentaries and documentaries. If WHV's four-disc sets are not selling well, what chance would a larger set have; especially one that contains a mix of "popular" and more-obscure cartoons?

IIRC, either Jerry or Stu had said during the broadcast that such a set might not be feasible... but I would have to listen to it again to be sure i didn't misunderstand.

[Brandon Panther]

IIRC, either Jerry or Stu had said during the broadcast that such a set might not be feasible... but I would have to listen to it again to be sure i didn't misunderstand.
I thought Jerry was only speaking hypothetically.

[stupiddimbulb]

Again, how could you possibly know what "people" want? You've just described a scenario that *you* would like, but you have no clue what anyone other than you would want on these things.

[FleischerFan]

A set with 2/3 Mighty Mouse would drive the average viewer insane, how many times can you watch him coming to 'save the day'?. That is way too much Mighty Mouse for anyone but a rabid fan - 2/3 Heckel & Jeckel would be better than 2/3 Mighty Mouse, even 2/3 Deputy Dawg would be better. Mighty Mouse had no personality and his toons are all the same over a long span of years.Let me echo Thad's response above.

It was just few months ago that someone on these boards characterized the Popeye cartoons as "all" conforming to the formula of Olive dumping Popeye for Bluto, getting into trouble and then Popeye eating spinach and recuing her. As the 3rd collection of Popeye cartoons ably demonstrated, the series quite often departed from that formula.

I think, in general, the Mighty Mouse series is actually the best series Terrytoons ever produced. As MM quickly became Terry's star attraction, his cartoons seemed to get a little more attention and care.

I just recently watched as many of the Mighty Mouse cartoons as I have in my collection (and that's 69 out of 80 titles). I was consistently entertained. There are several that are spoofs of operettas (the most famous being "Gypsy Life"), a few that satirize old-fashioned mellodramas and cliffhanger serials, and enough variety in setting and characters that I was never bored.

I would love to see many of these cartoons with their original theatrical headers restored.

I also believe the most commercial package would be something along the lines of what we got with the Woody Woodpecker sets. The bulk of the discs would contain Mighty Mouse cartoons with hopefully a generous helping of the other Terrytoons that have much less name recognition with the general public (Little Roquefort, Gandy & Sourpuss, Dinky Duck, Terry Bears, Farmer Al Falfa, etc.).

Hopefully, if this set sells well enough, CBS could come back and offer a similar set themed around Heckle & Jeckle.

[Bradskey]

I also believe the most commercial package would be something along the lines of what we got with the Woody Woodpecker sets. The bulk of the discs would contain Mighty Mouse cartoons with hopefully a generous helping of the other Terrytoons that have much less name recognition with the general public (Little Roquefort, Gandy & Sourpuss, Dinky Duck, Terry Bears, Farmer Al Falfa, etc.).


I agree, this would be an ideal format. I remember enjoying MM, H&J & Co. as a kid. I'd like a serviceable restoration effort with titles, etc, but at least I'm happy they'll see the light of day again.

[David Gerstein]

Again, how could you possibly know what "people" want? You've just described a scenario that *you* would like, but you have no clue what anyone other than you would want on these things.Thanks for not living up to your handle, stupiddimbulb.
I'm amazed to see a few people presume, seemingly without much research, that the silent majority of DVD buyers must share their opinion. Who's to say falling Golden Collection sales aren't due to the lousy economy and a slowdown in DVD buying overall? I'm not saying I know this is true; but I'm also not saying I know it's not.
Is Bosko really of interest only to historians? He's no Bugs, but my generation still enjoyed him on Nick as kids and teens. I recently had a non-historian guest at home who grabbed LTGC 6 off my bookshelf—and wanted to see a Bosko cartoon because she remembered him fondly. Maybe that disc was for her.

[Leviathan]

Well, DVD sales as a whole have peaked and the market has become oversaturated, both of which occurred before the economy really started going south.

[Chooch]

In a word, Netflix. In this economy, the actual films will suffice--don't really need the packaging....

[grundle]

Well wasn't that the original intent for releasing the concurrent "Spotlight Collections"; to include only those cartoons from the Golden Collection volumes that would appeal to kids and "soccer moms"?


No. Every cartoon on the first LTGC would appeal to that audience, so there was no need to distill it.

The second spotlight collection had a few cartoons from the 1930s and early 1940s that would not appeal to that audience. How many of today's children would enjoy Book Revue, Have You Got Any Castles, Hollywood Steps Out, and Katnip Kollege? If the goal was to cater to those people, why didn't they include some Road Runner cartoons instead of those 4 cartoons?

[grundle]

I seriously doubt that; an enormous set like that would comprise at least six discs, allowing for generous extras like commentaries and documentaries. If WHV's four-disc sets are not selling well, what chance would a larger set have; especially one that contains a mix of "popular" and more-obscure cartoons?

IIRC, either Jerry or Stu had said during the broadcast that such a set might not be feasible... but I would have to listen to it again to be sure i didn't misunderstand.

Actually, 3 single sided, double layered discs would be enough.

But yeah, if they filled it up with stuff from 1932, then most people wouldn't want it.

[grundle]

Again, how could you possibly know what "people" want? You've just described a scenario that *you* would like, but you have no clue what anyone other than you would want on these things.


99% of the population would rather see Greedy for Tweety instead of Book Revue.

[Ratso]

Is the interview archived? What is the link? I can't find it on either Stu or Jerry's websites. Also, any mention of an Avery/MGM release this year? Thanks!

[Mark J]

99% of the population would rather see Greedy for Tweety instead of Book Revue.

Are you a pollster? What age ranges, economic brackets, regions of the US etc. have you polled to come to your conclusions, or are you really just speaking for yourself?
I know that I grew up with the AAP package, it was on 2-3 hours a day on Channel 5 NYC throughout my childhood and into my teens and I am very familiar with all those toons, I watched the Saturday morning LTs much less. I would much rather see Book Revue than Greedy for Tweety and I am sure many casual fans would agree with me. Anyone who watched the AAPs in the 60's - 80s would have fond memories of Book Revue, Hollywood Steps Out etc. but a lot of the 50s Friz & McKimsons blend into each other.

[Fibber Fox]

Are you a pollster? What age ranges, economic brackets, regions of the US etc. have you polled to come to your conclusions, or are you really just speaking for yourself? .

How much Tweety merchandise is there?
How much Book Revue merchandise is there?

Web sites have .wav files of Tweety.
Web sites don't have .wav files of Book Revue.

It seems to me the casual fan would rather watch Tweety than Book Revue. Sounds logical to me. Feel free to release your polling data with economic brackets, regions, etc. to show otherwise though, frankly, I don't see why one has to be a pollster to have an opinion about what people want.

F. Fox

[grundle]

How much Tweety merchandise is there?
How much Book Revue merchandise is there?

Web sites have .wav files of Tweety.
Web sites don't have .wav files of Book Revue.

It seems to me the casual fan would rather watch Tweety than Book Revue. Sounds logical to me. Feel free to release your polling data with economic brackets, regions, etc. to show otherwise though, frankly, I don't see why one has to be a pollster to have an opinion about what people want.

F. Fox

Thank you!

[Jack G.]

How much Tweety merchandise is there?
How much Book Revue merchandise is there?Book Reveue isn't a character, so it's hard to market something like that to the general public.
The public remembers characters not idividual titles which is why we got a Droopy set instead of a full-blown Avery set.

As for the LTGC, I liked the way they were done.
The last one did go for the hardcore collector, which was intentional because Jerry knew there was going to be no more anyway.

Percentage-wise I think things may have gotten a little off balance with the ratio between well-known cartoons verses
more obscure ones on the last couple of releases but I discovered some awesome gems as a result.

I think Jerry and Warner did a good job.

The economy is bad right now so I half expected that we wouldn't get anything this year. I'm not shocked at all.

[Bradskey]

I know that I grew up with the AAP package, it was on 2-3 hours a day on Channel 5 NYC throughout my childhood and into my teens and I am very familiar with all those toons, I watched the Saturday morning LTs much less.

I saw the AAP package for years on local stations as a kid, weekday mornings and afternoons. Even in the 90s when I got stations like TBS and TNT on cable they showed the pre-48 package mornings and afternoons, with plenty of cartoons like Book Revue mixed in with old Porky, Daffy, Bugs, Sniffles and one-off character cartoons. I liked them all. I also enjoyed the Bugs and Tweety show immensely, but it was pretty much only on Saturdays, on one station, IF there wasn't some other show on another channel I liked that particular Saturday-morning season. I don't know what consumers want or if there really is even any consensus, but I doubt Book Revue and Have You Got Any Castles are really all that obscure -- I remember seeing stuff like that on old VHS tapes too that we would willingly pop into the VCR and watch. Gluttons for punishment I guess.

[FleischerFan]

Just my two cents - unscientific, not backed by any research whatsoever:

My guess is that most people who are not hardcore cartoon fans would be happy owning just the first Looney Tunes Golden Collection. Maybe the first two volumes if they are really extravagant. But certainly they would see no need for more than that.

Only hardcore cartoon fans are going to purchase all 6. That's why I believe that Jerry starting including more of the obscure or seldom seen Warner Brothers titles into the later volumes.

As for me, I rather enjoyed the later volumes more than the earlier ones. The most famous Looney Tunes were played over and over on TV as I grew up and also featured on the VHS packages of Looney Tunes as well.

If you are concerned with the general public, then a pattern similar to the VHS releases would have been in order. Those VHS titles were almost always character-centric. There was an abundance of Bugs Bunny releases, followed by Daffy & Porky, with the other well-known characters filling in behind.

The one series of non-character-centric titles was the "Golden Age" series. They were released on laserdsic to what was a niche market and then re-released on VHS aimed more at the rental market than the sell-through market. In point of fact, my understanding is that they faired poorly sales-wise - indicating that there's not much market for variety-oriented collections of cartoons.

So, I don't think it was the specific line-up of cartoon that caused sales to fall off. I think they would have fallen off no matter what was on the discs simply because non-fans are not interested in buying more than one or two sets of these.

[Duck Dodgers]

Maybe this year without releases will help previous sets to be sold.
They should have to promote again the first 6 volumes even if they were released years ago. And then go on with volume 7 next year.
Same with Popeye 4.

[Ray Pointer]

Book Reveue isn't a character, so it's hard to market something like that to the general public.
The public remembers characters not idividual titles which is why we got a Droopy set instead of a full-blown Avery set.

The fact that BOOK REVUE is a Clampett cartoon is the market value. But isn't DAFFY DUCK in it anyway? So it is marketable for these reasons.:daffy:

[Jack G.]

The fact that BOOK REVUE is a Clampett cartoon is the market value. But isn't DAFFY DUCK in it anyway? So it is marketable for these reasons.:daffy:I think I've seen a Book Reveue collectible.

But as noted there's truck-loads of Tweety merch.

The fact that BR is a Clampett cartoon makes it marketable to someone like me.

But Sally the Casual shopper (who thinks Tweety's cute)?
Don't think so.

As for me, I rather enjoyed the later volumes more than the earlier ones. The most famous Looney Tunes were played over and over on TV as I grew up and also featured on the VHS packages of Looney Tunes as well.I can relate to that.
I enjoyed seeing seldom shown cartoons - many of them excellent.

[Mark J]

How much Tweety merchandise is there?
How much Book Revue merchandise is there?

Web sites have .wav files of Tweety.
Web sites don't have .wav files of Book Revue.

It seems to me the casual fan would rather watch Tweety than Book Revue. Sounds logical to me. Feel free to release your polling data with economic brackets, regions, etc. to show otherwise though, frankly, I don't see why one has to be a pollster to have an opinion about what people want.

F. Fox

He was not comparing Book Revue the cartoon to the concept of Tweety the character, he was comparing the demand for the cartoon Book Revue to the demand for the cartoon Greedy for Tweety. That has nothing to do with .wav files etc. Book Revue is the only 'things come to life' toon that actually has a marketable character, Daffy, plus it is a color cartoon that had a lot of TV exposure over the years, much more than Greedy for Tweety. You would have to pose your question 'would the average person rather watch Book Revue, with Daffy Duck, or Greedy for Tweety, with Tweety & Sylvester', and I have no idea what the results of such a poll would be - do you???

[Bugsy-Kun]

"Greedy for Tweety" having a overatted exposure on Video and TV over at least 30 years. Between this and "Book Revue" around the most funny, i choose "Book Revue" because they have more memorable moments.

[WoodpeckerWoody]

There some Bugs and Daffy from pre-1948 and post 1948 that are not jet on DVD and saying shorts without thoes two are not marketable are underestimated. Take for example live-actions film loaded with mega stars but bad script that film wil still be a bad movie and that has been the case severall times so I think Film industry need to pull there act to gether soon or the will need bail out from Obama. I say this as I would take film with great skript with little known actors over bad skript and well known actors anyday.

[gdX]

sales for LTGC have been low is because they aren't offering what people want.
They want a Bugs cartoon, followed by a Tweety and Sylvester cartoon
I don't think you have any idea how turned off people were
Make a set that people actually want, and it will sell very well.
People want the stuff they already like watching on TV.
A set with Bugs, Daffy... would sell very well.
Those are the ones that people want.
No one other than collectors and historians wants Buddy and Bosko
LTGC Vol. 6 upset a lot of poeple.Wow... just wow.

You write as though you've thoroughly researched and documented all these "facts"... I'd wager you haven't.

You know, actual marketing professionals – and I've worked with many – usually come up through the ranks because they can sell you on the notion that they "know people" and have keen insight as to people's tastes and tendencies... they try to reinforce that with extensive research and demographic analysis, and attempt to stay ahead of the curve.

In the end, it's ultimately a guessing game... with a low batting average.

But I would like to see you march your Magic Formula into Warner Brothers and see how far you get... hmmm, Porky's adventure in "You Oughta Be In Pictures" comes to mind.

I don't think it was the specific line-up of cartoon that caused sales to fall off. I think they would have fallen off no matter what was on the discs simply because non-fans are not interested in buying more than one or two sets of these.Well whataya know... somebody actually gets it.

There was a deluge of classic animation over '07-'08... evidently, even forum members – the enthusiasts themselves! – are not buying all titles available... out there in the real world, normal people don't care enough to throw $40-60 at every brightly-packaged cartoon box set that shows up in the bins.

Same reason Starbucks is closing shops... too many shops, not enough spending money to support them.

[TheBlueHombre]

There was a deluge of classic animation over '07-'08... evidently, even forum members – the enthusiasts themselves! – are not buying all titles available... out there in the real world, normal people don't care enough to throw $40-60 at every brightly-packaged cartoon box set that shows up in the bins.
I think you're on the right track. I think one of the major reasons that the Looney Tunes sets have been selling poorly is because it is way overpriced. It is far and away, along with Popeye, the most expensive classic animated box sets around. The price is worth it when you get great digital transfers and wonderful bonus features, but all of those things come at a price. I think if they could just stick to putting out the cartoons themselves and skip the bonus material, then the price could come down and the sales would increase.

When the first Golden Collection set came out, I was very happy to pay the price because of all the wowie kezowie stuff on there. However, I am less likely to pay the high price for the sixth volume because by now I am just interested in the cartoons.

Also, there is no way that Bosko or any other obscure character can kill the sales. For fans like ourselves, we know everything that is supposed to be on that box set. However, for the casual store buyer, they just see Looney Tunes and decide to put in their shopping cart. However, I'll bet that a lot of them are going back on the shelf because of the high sticker price.

[TServo2049]

They *do* cost too much. I bought the GCs through Amazon and eBay slightly used/resold, in the $25-$35 range each. My friend is a big Looney Tunes fan, but he was flabbergasted by the $60 sticker price.

Seriously, a 4-disc set shouldn't be priced above $40, $45 tops. Then maybe I'd buy them firsthand instead of getting used/resold copies. I bought the Muppet Show sets at $35 or so each, 4 discs just like LTGC, and that price didn't bother me.

When you get to a certain price level people won't be as enthusiastic to buy something. If other 4-disc releases can cost $35, $40, why are the LTGCs $60?

And I LIKE the obscurities and classics, I don't think the LTGCs were a mistake. (Many have always advocated chronological sets, which IMO would have sold even LESS.)

I think that Spotlight Collection-type releases with few extras should be the route for future releases; more character shorts, and more of the less esoteric one-shot/minor-character shorts that we all remember from TV. Maybe a few of the lesser-known ones mixed in, yes, but not whole discs dedicated to stuff few uninitiated viewers know about...

The following few paragraphs are a rant, but I'm not angry at WB here, I'm just venting. Anyway...

Why have there been almost no Hippety Hopper shorts on the entire 6 volumes of LTGC? Do Jerry Beck and co. have something against the "giant mouse?" Yes, maybe they were a little repetitive, but they were funny, and I'd love to see some on future releases.

Why do we still not have House-Hunting Mice, or Feline Frame-Up, or A Hound for Trouble on DVD? And the person lamenting the lack of Foghorn Leghorn is correct; I would pay for a set with The High and the Flighty. And why is it that with six volumes, we still don't have Mouse Mazurka?

There are tons of unreleased shorts which would appeal to Joe Sixpack who watched Looney Tunes as a kid on ABC, or Nickelodeon, or TBS, or in syndication. Cartoons which my aforementioned friend and I often reminisce about (and keep in mind that he has seen and remembers the more obscure stuff too), but which I am slightly dismayed not to see on DVD. Not just post-48s, but pre-48s as well.

There are plenty of great classic cartoons which have gone unreleased, some of which have been mentioned in commentaries or excerpted in "Behind the Tunes" featurettes, only making me want to see restored versions even more. There's stuff like Hare-Way to the Stars, A Mouse Divided, Daffy Doodles, Curtain Razor, or Nasty Quacks. There's Sylvester's first two cartoons, Life With Feathers and Peck Up Your Troubles (the latter has always come from what is obviously a faded Eastman source with the red level muted - I wanna see what it looks like restored). There's Tweety's excellent second short, Birdy and the Beast. Minor-character shorts like Two's a Crowd, or Mouse Warming. One-shots like A Waggily Tale, or The Shell-Shocked Egg, or even From A to Z-z-z-z, which has only been seen in the context of "The Adventures of the Road Runner." Heck, even Sniffles cartoons would be welcome.

There's also quite a few great unreleased B&W Porky/Daffy shorts. I'd love to see DVD releases of Porky and Daffy, The Lone Stranger and Porky, The Henpecked Duck, The Impatient Patient, and Daffy's Southern Exposure. Quite a few classics which I used to see regularly (albeit in colorized form) on Nickelodeon, but which have been passed over on the LTGCs.

And maybe they can even work in some of the more "benign" non-PC shorts (as compared to, say, the Censored 11 or the Inki shorts, I mean) like Scalp Trouble, Ali Baba Bound, Hiawatha's Rabbit Hunt, The Daffy Duckaroo, Mexican Joyride, Bushy Hare, or Two Crows from Tacos.

Just look at the various lists out there of WB shorts not yet on DVD, and you'll realize that while the DVDs have given us plenty of rarities, there are tons of "mainstream" shorts that have been, well, ignored. When the economy picks up and the market is right again, I urge Jerry and WHV to consider making some of them available.

And there's still plenty of more esoteric cartoons and un-PC stuff which could be released on new hardcore-oriented sets, again when the market is better, and if the price is right...

[grundle]

Just my two cents - unscientific, not backed by any research whatsoever:

My guess is that most people who are not hardcore cartoon fans would be happy owning just the first Looney Tunes Golden Collection. Maybe the first two volumes if they are really extravagant. But certainly they would see no need for more than that.

Only hardcore cartoon fans are going to purchase all 6. That's why I believe that Jerry starting including more of the obscure or seldom seen Warner Brothers titles into the later volumes.

As for me, I rather enjoyed the later volumes more than the earlier ones. The most famous Looney Tunes were played over and over on TV as I grew up and also featured on the VHS packages of Looney Tunes as well.

If you are concerned with the general public, then a pattern similar to the VHS releases would have been in order. Those VHS titles were almost always character-centric. There was an abundance of Bugs Bunny releases, followed by Daffy & Porky, with the other well-known characters filling in behind.

The one series of non-character-centric titles was the "Golden Age" series. They were released on laserdsic to what was a niche market and then re-released on VHS aimed more at the rental market than the sell-through market. In point of fact, my understanding is that they faired poorly sales-wise - indicating that there's not much market for variety-oriented collections of cartoons.

So, I don't think it was the specific line-up of cartoon that caused sales to fall off. I think they would have fallen off no matter what was on the discs simply because non-fans are not interested in buying more than one or two sets of these.


Those are great ponts.

I'd also add that the other laserdiscs, which were either character specific, or theme specific, would probably sell very well if they were released on DVD.

[grundle]

I've been thinking about this a lot. There's no way that any release could please everyone. However, there are ways that WB could address what I consider to be the two biggest problems with the LTGCs: 1) The LTGCs are too expensive for many fans. 2) Many people who did buy the LTGCs ended up with a lot of cartoons that they didn't like.

My proposed solution is to start all over, and only release individual DVDs, with about 15 cartoons each, for a suggested retail price of $14.99 each. People can afford that. And with dozens of different DVDs to choose from, people can buy the cartoons they like, and avoid the ones they don't like.

I think these would sell better than the LTGCs, because they are a lot more affordable, and because they let people buy the cartoons they like and avoid the ones they don't like.

Here are my suggested ideas for these releases. If I missed anything, please feel free to suggest more:

Bosko and Buddy

Other early black and white cartoons without any popular chacacters

Black and white Porky Pig and Daffy

Black and white Porky Pig Vol 1

Black and white Porky Pig Vol 2

1930s and early 1940s Hollywood parodies

1930s and early 1940s musicals

Travelogues

Book Revue (Inanimate objects come to life, other one shots from the 1930s and 1940s)

The censored 11 and 4 others

15 other controversial cartoons with racial stereotypes

World War II

Bugs Bunny Vol 1

Bugs Bunny Vol 2

Bugs Bunny Vol 3

Bugs Bunny Vol 4

Bugs Bunny Vol 5

Bugs Bunny Vol 6

Daffy Duck Vol 1

Daffy Duck Vol 2

Daffy Duck Vol 3

Daffy Duck Vol 4

Porky Pig in color Vol 1

Porky Pig in color Vol 2

Tweety and Sylvester Vol 1

Tweety and Sylvester Vol 2

Tweety and Sylvester Vol 3

Road Runner Vol 1

Road Runner Vol 2

Foghorn Leghorn Vol 1

Foghorn Leghorn Vol 2

Speedy Gonzales

Pepe Le Pew

Assorted Nuts Vol 1 (Marc Antony and Pussyfoot, Hubie and Bertie, Claude Cat, Ralph Phillips, Chuck Jones' Three Bears, wolf and sheepdog, Goofy Gophers, etc.)

Assorted Nuts Vol 2

Musical Masterpieces (only cartoons from A Corny Concerto and later - nothing from earlier, as the other previous musical release already addresses those)

Fairy Tales with popular characters

Fairly Tales without popular characters

Science fiction, Halloween, and monsters (Marvin the Martian, Porky and Sylvester trilogy, Witch Hazel, that big orange monster, Tranylvania 6-5000, etc.)

Tasmanian Devil and other foes of Bugs and Daffy

Elmer Fudd

Yosemite Sam

Sylvester

Hippety Hopper

The Hole Idea (one shots from the 1950s and 1960s)

All stars Vol 1 (Bugs, Daffy, etc)

All Stars Vol 2

All Stars Vol 3

[Speedy Boris]

They *do* cost too much. I bought the GCs through Amazon and eBay slightly used/resold, in the $25-$35 range each. My friend is a big Looney Tunes fan, but he was flabbergasted by the $60 sticker price.

Seriously, a 4-disc set shouldn't be priced above $40, $45 tops. Then maybe I'd buy them firsthand instead of getting used/resold copies. I bought the Muppet Show sets at $35 or so each, 4 discs just like LTGC, and that price didn't bother me.

When you get to a certain price level people won't be as enthusiastic to buy something. If other 4-disc releases can cost $35, $40, why are the LTGCs $60? I got LTGC vol. 6 for $44.99. Not sure where you're shopping.

[speedy fast]

I find it disapointing that there will not be any Looney Tunes releases this year, and that The Bugs Buny Show won't beon the saturday morning sets. Bummer. This is a bad year for classic animation fans.

After reading this threa,d I started wondering if the Golden Collections should ha e been four-disc character releases, with bonus/ additional cartoons with other characters.

Volume one could have had a Bugs Buny disc for disc 1, featuring 10 Bugs cartoons and four cartoons with other A-list characters who didn't get their own discs, disc 2 could have been Porky and Daffy plus four obscure 1930s cartoons (A Bosko, a Buddy, a black and white Merrie Melodies, and a 1930s color Merrie Melodies, either one-shot or with Egghead), disc 3 could have spotlighted either Sylvester and Tweety with bonus Friz Freling cartoons, or Road Runner and Wile E. Coyote with bonus Chuck Jones cartoons, and disc 4 could have spotlighted Foghorn Leghorn with bonus Robert McKimson cartoons. Or Pepe le Pew and additional Chuck Jones cartoons (if no Road Runner disc). Or Speedy Gonzales and a number of post-1964 cartoons (or, if disc 3 was a Road Runner disc, perhaps some additional Friz Freling and Robert McKimson cartoons).

Part of me is now wondering if it would be good if the most popular cartoons on the Golden Collections should be rereleased in single-disc collections this year. It would give fans who didn't want to pay the high prices an opportunity to buy cheaper releases with the best-known cartoons, and if the sets only contained cartons from the GC's then fans who bought the sets wouldn't have to pay twice for many cartoons just to get new-to-DVD cartoons. Maybe a single-disc release of the best Bugs Bunny cartoons already released, a single-disc Daffy set, a single-disc Porky set, and a single-disc set of the other major characters (of course, I think there are enough Sylvester cartoons released to fill a 15-disc collection. Same with Tweety and Elmer Fudd).

And while there isn't much (if any) Book Revue merchandise, how many individual cartoons have their own merchandise? What one-shot cartoons besides One Froggy Evening have their own products (and were there any Michigan J. Frog products made before the launch of The WB)? I know that there have been a few toy lines that promoted specific cartoons. I recall a collection of small figure sets where each release was based on specific cartoons (I recall Dr. Devil and Mr. Hare and Tortilia Flaps being two of them).

[TServo2049]

I got LTGC vol. 6 for $44.99. Not sure where you're shopping.

When I went to Virgin Megastore in Times Square in 2005, their sticker price for LTGC Volume 1 was $59.99. This was volume 1, which had come out two years earlier.

[Brandon Panther]

Burn this into your brains...

BESTBUYBESTBUYBESTBUYBESBUYBESTBUYBESTBUYBESTBUYBE STBUYBESTBUY

or Deep Discount or whatever...

[wiley207]

I sure hope WB and Jerry Beck both have a change of heart and decide to do a LT DVD this year! WB promised they'd do a Looney Tunes DVD release this year! Is it all because of LTGC 5 and 6 bombing, and that now anything with LT characters on it will not sell very well? :(

If WB will no longer release any LT cartoons to video, I will never buy another product from Warner Home Video again.

[TServo2049]

Burn this into your brains...

BESTBUYBESTBUYBESTBUYBESBUYBESTBUYBESTBUYBESTBUYBE STBUYBESTBUY

or Deep Discount or whatever...

Yeah, we know that, but your average Joe Sixpack may find it somewhere where it's priced higher. IMO, it shouldn't be priced at $59.99 *anywhere.* Warner needs to rethink their MSRP strategy if they expect your average customer to buy these - maybe if they priced them at only $10 less, sales would be sufficiently higher to make up for lost potential revenue.

Perhaps it'd be better to go the Popeye route and do future releases as 2-disc sets. Or split the difference and do 3-disc sets...

And I don't remember WB promising a new LT DVD release. Besides, if the old ones aren't selling, and the economy's slow, why waste money putting these discs together if they won't sell? Obviously, sales among diehard collectors like us aren't enough to sustain these releases (and I remember Jerry saying that they were running out of potential bonus material for LTGCs anyways).

Besides, this slow year could give WHV time to rethink their practices; after 6 Golden Collections, a new way of presenting the LTs is needed. As I said before, there are a ton of "mainstream" titles which have gone unreleased, and perhaps some more mainstream-friendly releases could be done in the future. I don't even care if it means having to repeat some of the more "classic"/"mainstream" shorts from the LTGC releases. As long as they're restored and uncut, I'll buy them.

[wiley207]

Also, my local Best Buy almost NEVER sells the Golden Collections. The Wal-Mart tends to sell them often, though.

[gdX]

I posted this elsewhere, but it's most appropriate in this thread...



Think: downloads.

From a fully-restored library, at full DVD resolution.

Individual titles, or bundles, at reduced pricing.

Lose the commentaries.
Lose the documentaries.
Lose the packaging.
Lose the retailers.

Not pretty, but it's based on a rather successful business model: iTunes.

:sowhite:

[TServo2049]

Video on demand would be a good, or great idea...as long as they don't recycle old video masters, or give us colorized B&W shorts, or anything like that...

As you said, they could distribute the cartoons individually, or even in compilation blocks of 4-8 cartoons, or something like that.

Maybe they could even distribute the long-suppressed "Censored" shorts in some kind of online release, with the EXPRESS warning of what these cartoons are, and that they are NOT for children. Think of it...they could put them all in a separate release, and not have to worry about whether people outside the target audience will be offended. Maybe some compilation with a name like "Top-Secret Tunes" or something, and a big disclaimer of the kind I already suggested.

Perhaps, to go out on a limb, they could even circulate it by means of a link/page that is not publicized, or not available by Amazon's regular search feature. They could trust cartoon fans like us to circulate the link among ourselves without having to publicize it and risk the ire of the easily offended.

[gdX]

Exactly.

Lots of problems go away... primarily financial ones... but also the problem of the Censored 111 is lightened somewhat.

They'd have to devise some kind of burn-once-only technology so you could burn yourself a DVD, if needed.

But again, the financial incentive to do this is huge.

:shame:

[grundle]

Yeah, we know that, but your average Joe Sixpack may find it somewhere where it's priced higher. IMO, it shouldn't be priced at $59.99 *anywhere.* Warner needs to rethink their MSRP strategy if they expect your average customer to buy these - maybe if they priced them at only $10 less, sales would be sufficiently higher to make up for lost potential revenue.

Perhaps it'd be better to go the Popeye route and do future releases as 2-disc sets. Or split the difference and do 3-disc sets...

And I don't remember WB promising a new LT DVD release. Besides, if the old ones aren't selling, and the economy's slow, why waste money putting these discs together if they won't sell? Obviously, sales among diehard collectors like us aren't enough to sustain these releases (and I remember Jerry saying that they were running out of potential bonus material for LTGCs anyways).

Besides, this slow year could give WHV time to rethink their practices; after 6 Golden Collections, a new way of presenting the LTs is needed. As I said before, there are a ton of "mainstream" titles which have gone unreleased, and perhaps some more mainstream-friendly releases could be done in the future. I don't even care if it means having to repeat some of the more "classic"/"mainstream" shorts from the LTGC releases. As long as they're restored and uncut, I'll buy them.

They put a huge amount of time and effort into making the LTGCs, and considering how much content is on them, the price is very reasonable.

I think they should release individual DVDs with about 15 cartoons each for people who want something cheaper. But one dollar per cartoon is a reasonable price.

[raginggoodfella]

I thought I read somewhere there were big plans for WB cartoons in 2009. Like other posters mentioned: 1. lower the price 2. put out cartoons that people want 3. then watch the sales go up.

[jonmayo15]

Lots of problems go away... primarily financial ones... but also the problem of the Censored 111 Wow, thay added quite a few more...:)

[J Lee]

Wow, thay added quite a few more...:)

Given what Ted Turner was trying to do a decade ago, it's actually an underestimate... :eek: