With the new political landscape in the US, is the 'Censored Eleven' dead?

[Keith Paynter]

Without making this a political discussion, I now have a feeling that the chances of seeing the C11 appearing on any official WB home video release more unlikely now than ever.

The same could probably said for Disney's Song Of The South...

We've been though this discussion a few times, but I think now we've seen a watershed point in US history that will likely remove these films from studio circulation permanantly.

[cpdavison]

"For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus — and non-believers. We are shaped by every language and culture, drawn from every end of this Earth; and because we have tasted the bitter swill of civil war and segregation, and emerged from that dark chapter stronger and more united, we cannot help but believe that the old hatreds shall someday pass; that the lines of tribe shall soon dissolve; that as the world grows smaller, our common humanity shall reveal itself; and that America must play its role in ushering in a new era of peace. "

Based on the above, I could see it going either way.

I would hope the idea of "embracing our patchwork heritage" would ALLOW the recognition of our differences, be they past or current.

But the idea "that the old hatreds will someday pass" sounds like we might just stay in PC-induced denial.

Craig D.

[David Gerstein]

I'm a diehard liberal and have always wanted to see banned cartoons released—put in historical perspective, for adults, on DVD.
I know people of both political stripes who want to keep banned cartoons banned, largely because they either (A) find the cartoons offensive and refuse to believe that they aren't principally a children's product; (B) worry that a modern reissue will reach kids now regardless of intent, or (C) may not be offended by the cartoons, but fear an angry mob made up of mentalities A and B.
Liberals, from my experience, tend to lean towards positions A and B. Conservatives and corporate lawyers tend towards B and C.

I'm not sure the Obama era will change much of anything—because corporate lawyers, generally an extraordinarily entrenched bunch, tend to remain the same regardless of who's running the country.

[FleischerFan]

I agree with what David said.

However, we have seen a number of previously censored cartoons including Popeye's, Looney Tunes, and Tom & Jerry's all receive home video distribution, so I remain optomisitic.

[Ratso]

I don't see it as a left-right issue, or that an Obama Administration will usher in a new era of censorship. Turner's decision to keep the Censored Eleven locked up is likely corporate prudence (fear of bad press), and probably some personal revulsion at the racism depicted therein.

When curators or film studies teachers screen Birth of a Nation, it's done with the understanding that it is a cultural artifact from another time. The racist content is but one fascinating component of an artwork that is thrown up for vigorous discussion. Very few would argue that the film, a crucial part of Griffith's oeuvre--and therefore a crucial link in the history of film--should be banned.

Just as works by Twain, Cèline, and Wagner are recognized as artistic masterpieces (despite past charges of racism), I am confident that the worth of the cartoons in question will one day be seen in a similar light. And hopefully restored, with commentary tracks!

[Leviathan]

I agree with what David said.

However, we have seen a number of previously censored cartoons including Popeye's, Looney Tunes, and Tom & Jerry's all receive home video distribution, so I remain optomisitic.

Plus, Disney has (by now) released every un-PC short subject they have ever done in the Treasures, unedited (with one notable exception).

So even if SOTS and Coal Black remain verboten for the foreseeable future, I can't say we haven't seen any progress on the matter of un-PC cartoons on DVD.

[Tom Stathes]

Plus, Disney has (by now) released every un-PC short subject they have ever done in the Treasures, unedited (with one notable exception).
Not quite so. Alice Cans the Cannibals comes to mind, as do others from that period which have not seen official DVD release, despite being available elsewhere.

[Leviathan]

Oops. I wasn't thinking of the silents when I posted.

At the very least, all of the sound un-PC Disney shorts are commercially available.

[Fibber Fox]

Without making this a political discussion, I now have a feeling that the chances of seeing the C11 appearing on any official WB home video release more unlikely now than ever.

Why, Keith? Their government hasn't banned them. The government has nothing to do with it.

The marketplace drives the availability of any product. If there's a demand, and the right amount of money can be made, they'll be available.

F. Fox

[Keith Paynter]

Why, Keith? Their government hasn't banned them. The government has nothing to do with it.

The marketplace drives the availability of any product. If there's a demand, and the right amount of money can be made, they'll be available.

F. Fox

I am only saying that companies like Disney and WB may be even more inclined not to issue them for fear of backlash by the public additionally fuelled by the fact that there is now (generally speaking) an African-American president (of course his heritage is far more complex, but this may be the perception). Does it change the equation? I am trying raise the issue without delving into political territory - some forums treat political talk as a major no-no ("Hush yo' mouth! Silence is Foo!" - am I gonna get in trouble for this, now??)

These films continue to be very divisive. I, however, would welcome them, and look forward to someday havng a legitimate release, even living north of the 49th.

[Daffysleftfoot]

I know people of both political stripes who want to keep banned cartoons banned, largely because they either (A) find the cartoons offensive and refuse to believe that they aren't principally a children's product; (B) worry that a modern reissue will reach kids now regardless of intent, or (C) may not be offended by the cartoons, but fear an angry mob made up of mentalities A and B.
Liberals, from my experience, tend to lean towards positions A and B. Conservatives and corporate lawyers tend towards B and C.


You left something out. Many of those people dont want WB to make any money off of the distribution of these films either. Some time ago, Michael Barrier wrote on his web-site about how the profits fro these films should be given to an unimpeachable charity.
Some time ago, I suggested on this very site that the Censored 11 could be hidden on a LTGC as easter eggs. Ive thought about that since then and now consider that to be rather cowardly. Plus, no matter how well their hidden, as soon as their found the crazed outrage will ensue. So, y new suggestion is to create a documentary about these cartoons and show it on PBS. The cartoons would be shown cleaned up and unedited of course. Inbetween each cartoon wold be a number of experts and scholars giving information on Jim Crow and what life was like in the 30s and 40s when they were made.

Noone could accuse that of trying to only reach the children or trying to merely turn a profit.

[larriva9/11]

Though before we jump to conclusions, there's something we're overlooking here: Obama isn't exactly Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. He's of a different generation and culture, with a more thoughtful, balanced background--and of course, that's part of what made him "electable". I can actually see him having more of a post-modern sympathy toward the Censored Eleven that's far from censorious--and not only that, I can see his example heralding an overall enlightened swing away from a pattern of reactive, purgatorial censoriousness toward a more nuanced, open-ended view of the historical "black experience". Sambo repatriated from the schoolmarms, in other words.

Besides, a lot of the libertarian-conservative pro-C11 arguments don't necessarily do the case justice, especially when they ramp up the anti-political-correctness angle to the max to the point where it's practically anti-intellectual as well. That is, we have to look at both sides here...

[Tom Stathes]

After Obama signed the order to shut down Guantanamo Bay, he popped in a black-market disc of Censored 11 shorts. "Hmmm...what to do with these..."

[Daffysleftfoot]

Humorous note:

I was reading the comments under one of the postings of Coal Black on Youtube one day. There was one guy who made comment after comment after comment about how racist the cartoon was. However, in his final comment, he blamed the cartoon's creation on "the Jews".

He totally did not even see the ironic hypocrisy of that comment either. :rolleyes:

[J Lee]

Originally Posted by larriva/911 http://forums.goldenagecartoons.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://forums.goldenagecartoons.com/showthread.php?p=131600#post131600)
Though before we jump to conclusions, there's something we're overlooking here: Obama isn't exactly Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton. He's of a different generation and culture, with a more thoughtful, balanced background--and of course, that's part of what made him "electable". I can actually see him having more of a post-modern sympathy toward the Censored Eleven that's far from censorious--and not only that, I can see his example heralding an overall enlightened swing away from a pattern of reactive, purgatorial censoriousness toward a more nuanced, open-ended view of the historical "black experience". Sambo repatriated from the schoolmarms, in other words.As long as there is $$$ to be made off of being "outraged" by the Censored 11 cartoons or movies like "Song of the South", there are people out there like Jesse or Al who are going to be outraged, since to them it means a way to get a quick contribution to their organizations from a company like Time-Warner or Disney to go away.

Obama might change that, but it would really take an overt effort on his part to do so. I don't mean he's actually got to make a statement saying he thinks "Coal Black" is a masterpiece, but would have to make the point that reflexive acts of being offended that fail to take any sort of context into account are counter-productive. My guess is if he doesn't, people like Jesse and Al are going to self-appoint themselves as Obama's cultural arbiters, so that if someone or some company with $$$ says or does something involving the president that's not complementary, they will take offense for Obama and seek a nice cash donation for their organizations (which is why until fears of stuff like that end, its unlikely Time-Warner's going to dip their toe in the water on releasing controversial cartoons).

[MarkTheShark]

It might be interesting, somewhere down the road, if Mr. Obama does get interviewed for some documentary on something related to "the arts" -- Presidents eventually get asked their opinions about almost everything somewhere down the line -- he could be asked his thoughts about stuff like this. I certainly think a lot of things are going to be different...

Hey, if they did end up including the "Censored Eleven" as an "Easter Egg," maybe they'd have preceded them with a non-skippable documentary placing the shorts in their proper historical context with participation from Leonard Maltin, Whoopi Goldberg, President Obama, who knows who else...

[larriva9/11]

Hey, if they did end up including the "Censored Eleven" as an "Easter Egg," maybe they'd have preceded them with a non-skippable documentary placing the shorts in their proper historical context with participation from Leonard Maltin, Whoopi Goldberg, President Obama, who knows who else...

But unfortunately, there's also a certain radicalized pro-C11 school of thought that feels such "proper historical contextualizing" can be so full of politically-correct bias as to throw a wet blanket on the entertainment value--particularly when it is, as you say, "non-skippable", at which point even the non-radicals would be annoyed, (You mean each and every time one watches Coal Black, one has to put up with a Whoopi preamble?)

As far as an Obama-world non-hostility goes, though, I might look less upon Whoopi-type reference points than Wayans types--just generally, I suspect that the past 20 odd years of post-boomer BET-school entertainment (including, of course, the legacy of the WB Network) might be a little less hostile, to the point where "Coal Black: A Hip-Hopera" isn't out of the question...