"Lost" Cartoons

[A. Flea]

In the Film industry, when a film has vanished and there are no more copies, we assume it is "lost". Are there any cartoons that fall into this category?

[Gasmask Ted]

Many. Including many from popular series like the Disney Oswalds and the silent Felix the Cats.

[Tom Stathes]

My estimate is approximately 2,000 from the silent era, maybe more. I spend hours daily keeping watch for anything that may turn up and it does happen here and there. Someone else would have a better idea of what sound-era cartoons are lost, probably less than a hundred?

[Brandon Panther]

A print of The Heckling Hare with its original ending. We'll probably be visited by aliens from another galaxy before a print of that ever turns up.

[Tom Stathes]

If it was at least photographed, a copy of it turning up is never 100% impossible. It just may mean waiting 2 days or 60 years until that happens.

[frizfrelengfan]

The original ending of "The Stupid Cupid" is lost - notice how the cartoon ends abruptly. It's a shame because I would have loved to see how this one turned out.

Some color cartoons only survive as b&w prints, such as the Columbia Color Rhapsody "Mysto Fox." The Fleischer Color Classic "Time for Love" was considered lost for a long time, but I believe a color copy was found and placed on the latest edition of the "Somewhere in Dreamland" DVD.

[Brandon Panther]

The original ending of "The Stupid Cupid" is lost - notice how the cartoon ends abruptly. It's a shame because I would have loved to see how this one turned out.
I'm pretty sure that cartoon ended with a heart-shaped iris, with the That's All Folks ending fading it.

The opening titles probably had heart-shaped irises too.

[larriva9/11]

Don't forget any MM/LTs which only (thus far?) remain in Blue Ribbon form...

[Matt the Y]

I'm pretty sure that cartoon ended with a heart-shaped iris, with the That's All Folks ending fading it.

The opening titles probably had heart-shaped irises too.

Don't forget, though, that "The Stupid Cupid" was originally a Looney Tune, not a Merrie Melodie (it was "transferred" to the Merrie Melodies series upon being "Blue Ribboned"). I.e., the original copy of "Stupid Cupid" would have had the Porky Pig "bursting out of drum" ending rather than the "That's All, Folks!" ending. That doesn't mean the "heart-shaped iris" ending theory is out, it just means there is one extra thing to consider here.

[A. Flea]

Apart from the silent cartoons, and ending openings missing, are there any "Talkie" WB cartoons missing?

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Only the last half of the Columbia cartoon He Can't Make It Stick (1943) exists.

[nickramer]

Apart from the silent cartoons, and ending openings missing, are there any "Talkie" WB cartoons missing?
Not for regular releases. However, there are two goverment/training films that are missing, which are "Secrets of the Carribean" with Snafu and "A Hitch in Time".

[Thad]

If it was released to theaters, there's a print of some kind of it out there. If it wasn't, and edited before release, the chances of it turning up are harder, but still not impossible. 'HARE RIBBIN' didn't turn up with the extra footage until some time in the 1980s. I have prints of 'HOLLYWOOD STEPS OUT' and 'CATCH AS CATS CAN' in my own collection that end a bit later than the versions we're used too, indicating that there's some lost footage we still have yet to see. Keep watching!

[Matt the Y]

Only the last half of the Columbia cartoon He Can't Make It Stick (1943) exists.

What??!! Aw, man! That's one I've always wanted to see! :( A great satire of Adolf Hitler, as I understand.

[Jon Cooke]

"Red Hot Riding Hood" with the original 'granny-marries-wolf' ending. :wolfie:

"Spree For All" - a 1946 Famous Studios Noveltoon featuring Snuffy Smith.

"Cat o' Nine Ails" - a 1948 Famous Noveltoon with Buzzy the Crow. :buzzy:

"The Space Squid" - Paramount "GoGo Toon" from 1967, directed by Shamus Culhane.

Columbia's 4 Barney Google cartoons (http://www.cartoonbrew.com/classic/columbias-barney-google.html) from 1935.

[Leviathan]

According to Jerry Beck, the six rarest Columbias (aside from the Barney Googles and He Can't Make it Stick) are


THE STORK TAKES A HOLIDAY (1937 Color Rhapsody) - no elements
HOLLYWOOD GRADUATION (1938 Color Rhapsody) - no elements
HOLLYWOOD SWEEPSTAKES (1939 Color Rhapsody) - no elements
WHO'S ZOO IN HOLLYWOOD (1941 Color Rhapsody) - no elements
LIONEL LION (1944 Phantasy) - no elements
RIPPLING ROMANCE (1945 Color Rhapsody) - no elementsNothing is known to exist of these films, and other Columbia cartoons apparently only exist as soundtracks, silent negatives, or B/W 16mms

[A. Flea]

1. The reel catches on fire (somehow) and burns the cartoon.
2. The reel is faded beyond recognition.
3. Gremlins disembowel the projector,and rip the film so Hulk Hogan is called in to get it running again.
4. Scenes were literally cut.

[Cartman]

I believe all but a few Toby the Pup cartoons are lost.

[Tom Stathes]

1. The reel catches on fire (somehow) and burns the cartoon.
2. The reel is faded beyond recognition.
3. Gremlins disembowel the projector,and rip the film so Hulk Hogan is called in to get it running again.
4. Scenes were literally cut.

1, 3, and 4, yes.

[Brandon Panther]

If it was released to theaters, there's a print of some kind of it out there. If it wasn't, and edited before release, the chances of it turning up are harder, but still not impossible. 'HARE RIBBIN' didn't turn up with the extra footage until some time in the 1980s. I have prints of 'HOLLYWOOD STEPS OUT' and 'CATCH AS CATS CAN' in my own collection that end a bit later than the versions we're used too, indicating that there's some lost footage we still have yet to see. Keep watching!
I wasn't aware of an alternate print of Catch as Cats Can. Perhaps you could upload it to YouTube or DailyMotion?

[J. A. Boschen]

I don't know if these qualify as lost cartoons, but a lot of MGM's cartoons of the 1940's, especially Tom & Jerry only survive in re-issue prints. Some of the original versions such as the Shooting of Dan McFoo were even altered for their reissue and its possible that ohers were as well. http://www.cartoonresearch.com/mgm.html

[frizfrelengfan]

I'm not sure whether a color copy of the Columbia cartoon "River Ribber" still exists.

[Ray Pointer]

Four BETTY BOOP cartoons were considered "lost" until recently. BUZZY BOOP and PUDGY AND THE LOST KITTEN has turned up, but BUZZY BOOP AT THE CONCERT and HONEST LOVE AND TRUE have not so far. Also some Fleischer industrial films such as A JOLT FOR GENERAL GERM, SUITED TO A TEA, STEP ON IT, and TEX IN 1999 are obscure at this point in time.

[Thad]

I wasn't aware of an alternate print of Catch as Cats Can. Perhaps you could upload it to YouTube or DailyMotion?

I can't, as I don't have a digital transfer of it. The fade out happens slightly later than in the common version, showing the camera about to pan. (I know how it's supposed to end, it's supposed to pan to the backyard where the Crosby parrot is 'buried'.)

[J. A. Boschen]

I just remember this as it is on my list to see, a Walter Lantz film from 1939/1940 entitled THE AMAZING RECOVERY OF INBAD THE AILOR, a special (I believe in Technicolor as well) 1939 World's Fair exhibit film, is considered lost.


Also some Fleischer industrial films such as A JOLT FOR GENERAL GERM, SUITED TO A TEA, STEP ON IT, and TEX IN 1999 are obscure at this point in time.


Just out of curiosity Ray, when were the four Fleischer industrial films that you mentioned made?

[Ken Layton]

Readin', Writin', and Rhythmetic (1948) Famous Studios Screen Song but I think recently UCLA has discovered a print in their holdings.

[Lynn]

According to Jerry Beck, the six rarest Columbias (aside from the Barney Googles and He Can't Make it Stick) are

Nothing is known to exist of these films, and other Columbia cartoons apparently only exist as soundtracks, silent negatives, or B/W 16mms I have a color copy of Hollywood Sweepstakes. The sound is muffled. I do not know if Columbia's Neighbors and Monkey Love, both from 1935 are lost but I have not been able to find them.

[zavkram]

Four BETTY BOOP cartoons were considered "lost" until recently. BUZZY BOOP and PUDGY AND THE LOST KITTEN has turned up, but BUZZY BOOP AT THE CONCERT and HONEST LOVE AND TRUE have not so far. Also some Fleischer industrial films such as A JOLT FOR GENERAL GERM, SUITED TO A TEA, STEP ON IT, and TEX IN 1999 are obscure at this point in time.

Regarding the cartoon, Buzzy Boop, is this the same print with poor sound that Jerry Beck mentions in his "Cartoon Research" website, under the category of "Frequently-Asked Questions"; or has a better-quality print recently turned up?

[David Gerstein]

Also some Fleischer industrial films such as A JOLT FOR GENERAL GERM, SUITED TO A TEA, STEP ON IT, and TEX IN 1999 are obscure at this point in time.Ray, I've seen (http://www.cartoonresearch.com/garagesale.html) STEP ON IT. It features the white-furred version of Bimbo ("Okay, colonel!") in a fairly basic car maintenance story.

Zavkram, at least two prints of BUZZY BOOP exist: the 16mm that's now circulating in the collectors' circuit here, and a better—but still less than great—copy shown on Danish TV some ten years ago, which I've got on a PAL VHS tape but unfortunately lack the tech to transfer for the moment.
Unfortunately, the Danish station didn't have any of the other lost shorts.

[Magpie]

I'm probably spelling this wrong, but I was just told recently (didn't know:confused: ) that an early Netflixesque system existed called Kodascopes wherein films were available for home rental, and printed on a flame-retardant(?) industrial film stock. Many "lost" films ironically survived in this format...and are the only known prints.

[A. Flea]

For the hardcore historians, what would the most valuable "Lost' Cartoons be?

[Tom Stathes]

I'm probably spelling this wrong, but I was just told recently (didn't know:confused: ) that an early Netflixesque system existed called Kodascopes wherein films were available for home rental, and printed on a flame-retardant(?) industrial film stock. Many "lost" films ironically survived in this format...and are the only known prints.

That's right...and there were similar libraries in the 20s and 30s such as Universal Show At Homes, Home Film Libraries, etc. Here are some related images I've uploaded:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_GTm-e3Idbn0/R33ogBE4D2I/AAAAAAAAASs/kPIgg4i2NYU/s1600-h/fae6_1.JPG

http://cartoonsonfilm.blogspot.com/2007/02/elusive-home-film-libraries.html

[Ray Pointer]

Just out of curiosity Ray, when were the four Fleischer industrial films that you mentioned made?

The early 1930s. A JOLT FOR GENERAL GERM is listed with a 1931 copyright, as an example.

[Steve Stanch]

I've been on the hunt for a lot of these 'lost' films since I've started collecting films. I was facinated by the idea of being able to find rare or basically lost films-and make them available for people to see. That is why this era of DVD and other formats has been a dream come true..... a lot of what you see on the Cultoons DVDs are some of the rarest of the rare that has shown up so far.... and I'm sure more will be found in the years to come.

I'm still kicking myself for GIVING away a print of Felix fans the Flames to a collector I've been searching for since the 90s... maybe the only known print!

At the top of my list of things to find are:

Smellot Bones, the Dog Detective (1930)

The two Dr. Suess cartoons by Harman/ Ising from 1930

Anything else Les Elton might have done......

The rest of the Kinex shorts (missing 4 out of 27...)

and some other stuff I may have actually found!

[Nelson]

Other lost cartoons would be the 1933 Flip The Frog two strip technicolor short, TECHNO-CRACKED, which only survives on b&w prints and two of the 1929 sound releases of the Columbia Krazy Kats no longer survive.

[Ray Pointer]

While the first eight SCREEN SONGS from February to August 1929 were originally listed in the old Ivy Films rental catalog, they do not seem to exist now. These include in order:

1) THE SIDEWALKS OF NEW YORK
2) OLD BLACK JOE
3) YANKEE DOODLE BOY
4) YE OLDE MELODIES
5) DAISEY BELL
6) MOTHER PIN A ROSE ON ME
7) DIXIE
8) GOODBYE MY LADY LOVE

[dandu]

Apart from the silent cartoons, and ending openings missing, are there any "Talkie" WB cartoons missing?

The 1930 Dr Seuss cartoons are now lost.

[A. Flea]

I know this, as I talked about them in an earlier post. And tthey were commercials for Flit.

[Duck Dodgers]

"Accordion Joe", "Secrets of the Caribbean" and "Cat O' Nine 'Ails" are the ones I'd want to see the most.

[dandu]

I wonder if any of the Copley Felix Reissues are lost, like Bungle in the Jungle and the Last Life.

[David Gerstein]

I wonder if any of the Copley Felix Reissues are lost, like Bungle in the Jungle and the Last Life.I'm not sure what you mean—quite a lot of Educational Pictures Felixes were rereleased by Copley, but I don't have the full rundown. I've never seen JUNGLE BUNGLE or THE LAST LIFE in a Copley print, but that doesn't mean they didn't release them.
JUNGLE BUNGLE survives in a Spanish print at the Library of Congress, where I saw it; it's okay, but not one of Felix's best. THE LAST LIFE is missing for now, but has been released for home use in the past (1930s-40s) so will probably turn up sometime, I'll bet.