Shamus Culhane - Sloppy Artist?

[J. J. Hunsecker]

There are some people out there in blogland that claim Shamus Culhane was a sloppy artist, and that the cartoons he directed look poorly done.

I don't agree with this concept. It's true that as an animator Culhane would wait for days contemplating a scene, then attack it with a burst of energy all at once. The drawings were very rough, and Culhane's methods probably didn't leave his assistants much time to clean up the work. However, for those here who have read Larry T's excellent animator breakdown of Puss 'N Booty, you know that Culhane's drawings for Tashlin had volume and more detail than some of the other animators' drawings did.

Some people claim that the Lantz cartoons Culhane directed were also sloppy and that Lundy was a better director. However, that theory fails to take into account the state of the studio before Culhane took over as director. The early 40's Lantz cartoons were crudely drawn and animated before Culhane's arrival. He had a lot of work to do to bring the studio up to speed, which he achieved by the mid-40's. It also fails to take into account that Lundy was an animator for Culhane before he became a director himself. If Lundy was a better draftsman that Culhane, it should be obvious in Lundy's animation for Culhane, too. (As a director, Lundy had the very appealing animation of Freddy Moore in his favor, too.) I think the original theorist was actually offended by the animation of Grim Natwick in Culhane's cartoons, which looked like a throwback to Natwick's 30's work at Iwerks.

If one looks at the cartoons Culhane directed while at Fleischer, one can see that the animation improved under his tutelage there, too.

Anyone agree or disagree?

[Ken Layton]

His stuff in those days was fine, but when he went all "artsy-fartsy" in the 1960's he lost me. "My Daddy the Astronut" and "The Plummer" are total pieces of crap.

I like his work in the 1950's Bell Telephone Science Series though.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

His stuff in those days was fine, but when he went all "artsy-fartsy" in the 1960's he lost me. "My Daddy the Astronut" and "The Plummer" are total pieces of crap.

I like his work in the 1950's Bell Telephone Science Series though.
Yeah, I'm not crazy about his UPA influenced cartoons, either. However the complaints against him on the blogs wasn't about those cartoons, but his earlier, better output in the 40's.

[Thad]

Shamus Culhane was great and never really got the chances he deserved. He should have gotten to direct cartoons at one of the major studios for at least ten years. There is a very good chance he could have rivaled Chuck Jones if he got the opportunity.

John K doesn't know dick. As usual.

[klangley]

Just look at the quality of the Lantz cartoons before his arrival. He also worked with smaller budgets than the directors at the other major studios. The simple fact that the complaint of "formless" drawings in John's post and then backing it up with Natwick drawings (one of his favorites) shows he's not paying much attention. He's obviously written Culhane off for some reason. I noticed the post originally mentioned something negative about Culhane's timing. For some reason that's not there anymore. Thad's right, if Shamus had the opportunity he may very have become one the greatest of directors.

John's latest post is about "Twins" in drawings, I was surprised he didn't use the post as an opportunity to bash Ken Muse as he's done in the past. (Sorry, I don't want to steer this into a John K bashing thread but some of the things he posts I just don't understand.)

[J Lee]

The motion and design in Culhane's one-shots at Universal show a very strong influence from the Jones unit, while the look and action of the Woody and Andy Panda cartoons are more in line with what came before him at Universal, where the design work was really a hit-and-miss thing from 1940-43.

Culhane's work is a step up over the Lovy/Lantz earlier shorts (minus that one horrific redesign for Andy), and I'm not sure why John K thinks he could have turned things around overnight -- they don't have the elegance of the later Lundy shorts, but really, it took Dick until his last few cartoons to figure out how to handle Woody with the improved design, thanks to the creation of Buzz Buzzard, an antagonist the woodpecker could really lay into in a Bugs/Yosemite Sam manner (And there's a case to be made that in the case of certain action characters, you don't want the animation to look too pretty, because it takes away from the comedy -- a battle Avery had for several years at MGM, trying to pull his crew away from their Disney/Harman-Ising roots).

[Studio Toledo]

His stuff in those days was fine, but when he went all "artsy-fartsy" in the 1960's he lost me. "My Daddy the Astronut" and "The Plummer" are total pieces of crap.
I feel so much the opposite as I liked those.

[Cartman]

Didn't Culhane also animate the scene in Pinocchio of Foulfellow holding his beer mug in the pub? That actually looked very well animated.

[Mr. Semaj]

Shamus Culhane was a lot more talented than people are willing to admit.

He really found his stride at Lantz, having helped bring Woody Woodpecker into shape. Despite some praise for Woody's first design, it only worked in contrast to some of the "cuter" characters he was put against. His #2 design brought more appeal to the character at about the right time, when an artistic change of pace was about to occur under Culhane's watch. Some of these changes included cool background designs and camera tricks, both of which went missing by the time Dick Lundy took his place.

I haven't seen but two of Culhane's Paramount shorts (and I'm dying to see more), but from what I heard, he really went all out to erase the decadent atmosphere of the studio, where they were still dealing with the loss of Seymour Kneitel, but even before that, they were hardly doing anything creative with their films anymore. My Daddy the Astronaut may not be the best example, but it's still by itself far more bold and different than anything Paramount animation had done up to that point.

As an animation director, Shamus Culhane's gift seemed to be bringing better art and creativity to the studios that needed it.

[Scuz Fink]

Apart from a few exceptions- I think in general most fans of cartoons would agree that Shamus Culhane is a great director. For example,I don't know how someone could argue that a cartoon as energetic and fast paced as The Barber of Seville is sloppy.

Why did he change his name from James to Shamus?, Ive always been curious about that.

[Matt the Y]

Why did he change his name from James to Shamus?, Ive always been curious about that.

To get in touch with his Irish roots, perhaps?

[J Lee]

I feel so much the opposite as I liked those.

I find "Astronaut" to be just a little bit too cute as far as the story goes, in the mold of the post-Maltese Chuck Jones (as Culhane notes in his biography, Howard Post and Jack Mendelhson's "The Story of George Washington" covered some of the same ground at Paramount a year earlier, and IMHO, works a little better). On the other hand, "The Plumber" covers some of the same ground as Jones' "Nellie's Folly", right down to borrowing the Jones-Nobel hand clapping design, but the lack of dialogue keeps it from coming off as a little bit too pleased with itself, the way Chuck's work does, and the ending's a whole lot better then Jones' let's-pretend-she-didn't-commit-suicide option.

Culhane at least was trying a few new things in the mid-1960s (OK, except for Sir Blur -- but damn, the media folks in New York really liked Mr. Magoo in the mid-60s), and even though some of them didn't work out, at least the stories don't have the going-through-the-motions feel the 1966-67 efforts coming out of Warners, Universal, MGM and Terrytoons did.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Why did he change his name from James to Shamus?, Ive always been curious about that.
His real name was Shamus, but he changed it to James by the time he started his professional career in the 30's. I think it was because being a WASP was more highly regarded in those days, as opposed to being more "ethnic". Most white people with more ethnic names changed them to appear more "American" and less foreign. Hence, Vladimir Tytla became Bill, Isadore Freleng listed his name as I. Freleng in credits (to sound less Jewish), Jose Melendez became Bill Melendez, etc. Italians would sometimes drop the vowel at the end of their last names, ala Tony Bennett.

By the 60's that mentality was dropped, and it was okay to use one's real name, despite however foreign it may have sounded.

[Jack]

Well darn, I liked Culhane a lot. His Lantz cartunes are among my favorites from the studio, and the jazzy cartoons had a wonderful energy and fluidity to them. I only wish he'd stayed at Lantz longer. A lot longer.

His real name was Shamus, but he changed it to James by the time he started his professional career in the 30's. I think it was because being a WASP was more highly regarded in those days, as opposed to being more "ethnic". Most white people with more ethnic names changed them to appear more "American" and less foreign. Hence, Vladimir Tytla became Bill, Isadore Freleng listed his name as I. Freleng in credits (to sound less Jewish), Jose Melendez became Bill Melendez, etc. Italians would sometimes drop the vowel at the end of their last names, ala Tony Bennett.

By the 60's that mentality was dropped, and it was okay to use one's real name, despite however foreign it may have sounded.That's interesting about Freleng. I'd thought he just didn't like his name, as I'd never really associated the name Isadore with being Jewish, probably because there's a popular saint (http://catholic-saints.suite101.com/article.cfm/patron_saint_of_the_internet) with a similar name.

I wonder why Melendez went with Bill rather than Joe (which is what Jose means in English). But then I guess if you're picking a new name, you can pick whatever name you like.

[lonesome-lenny]

I haven't gone to his blog yet, but I assume these allegations about Culhane are from John K's blog?

"Consider the source."

The major instance of sloppiness in Culhane's Lantz work would be the terrible-looking animation at the beginning of THE GREATEST MAN IN SIAM. It's the bit where the king introduces himself.

The quality of the movement is decent enough, but the look of the drawing is wretched. It's a real eyesore.

Aside from that one moment, I can't say there's a single frame of any Culhane Lantz cartoon that I find displeasing.

He had the misfortune of rotten writers, but he took their turds-of-scripts and polished them in every way. If he'd had a Michael Maltese or a Warren Foster at Lantz, their cartoons would have hit the quality-stratosphere.

As they stand, they're better than Lundy's cartoons, and by far the finest material that came out of the Lantz studio (Avery's quartet excepted).

Well, my curiosity's piqued... now to go and read John K's rant, er, posting...

[Larry T]

Didn't Culhane also animate the scene in Pinocchio of Foulfellow holding his beer mug in the pub? That actually looked very well animated.

Yes he did. I have an original drawing of that character from Mr. Culhane, which he drew right in front of me in the matter of 10 minutes, and it has more structure than many other animation drawings that actually went into production.

John's latest post is about "Twins" in drawings, I was surprised he didn't use the post as an opportunity to bash Ken Muse as he's done in the past. (Sorry, I don't want to steer this into a John K bashing thread but some of the things he posts I just don't understand.)

Yeah, he goes on about "floating facial features" and vague character construction then knocks on Pat Matthews and James Culhane by showing pics of the scenes they animated....but doesn't mention a thing about Jim Tyer, who was the king of those accusations (but in the right way, which is what made his artwork so funny.. and for the record I happen to really like Matthews' and Culhane's loose animation).

If anyone wants to talk about sloppy animators why doesn't Norm Ferguson's name come up? He was a fantastic artist but most of us only see his stuff AFTER it's been rendered.... apparently there were cleanup artists that refused to try to read his animation roughs, and a few even quit because of it.

I think some of Mr. Ks blog entries are done when he's being 'influenced' ... :rolleyes:

[Jack]

I think a lot of cartoon buffs all too often allow what they consider to be "the great" to become an enemy of "the good." By this I mean they pit cartoons and personalities they consider to be "the greatest" against cartoons and animators who aren't bad by any stretch of the imagination, thereby dismissing their good work as being crap.

If you do it too much, you'll find yourself hating most classic cartoons.

[Matt the Y]

I think a lot of cartoon buffs all too often allow what they consider to be "the great" to become an enemy of "the good." By this I mean they pit cartoons and personalities they consider to be "the greatest" against cartoons and animators who aren't bad by any stretch of the imagination, thereby dismissing their good work as being crap.

If you do it too much, you'll find yourself hating most classic cartoons.

Hear, hear! Agreed 1000% (an impossible percentage, I know, but I'm using hyperbole).

I've dealt with far too many snobs (most of which do not actually go to this forum so don't worry;) ) who disdain anything less than excellent just because it's not excellent; it has to be their absolute favorite, their absolute highest, tip-top, Grade A1, quality product because if it's anything short, it's automatically worthless. I dealt with one such person some twelve years ago and his elitist attitude and petty snobbery was both frustrating and infuriating. Sadly, he's not the only person I've encountered since then. I think people should realize that there are varying degrees of greatness, none of which takes away the enjoyability or the very fact that despite the level or degree, the work or quality of the product itself actually is great. People who are only willing to settle for anything that is the absolute highest degree of excellence and nothing less are in for an extreme disappointment in life.

[Mr. Semaj]

Some of John K's musings, while providing useful technical information, are actually more harmful than helpful when it comes to proving the "versatility" of animation. It feels from some of his posts that he's constantly unappreciative of the many strides made to make the medium more than just the "filler" genre that it is often stereotyped for, which is far more regressive than he lets on.

And then there are a couple of his followers, some who literally believe everything he tells them, that goes around invalidating anything that doesn't fit his curriculum, and contradicting themselves at every turn, even by avoiding the answers to simple questions. (I was once called ignorant from someone whose name will be withdrawn at this point when I defended the lack of exaggeration from a particular movie, among the many unfair arguments against the film. :mad:)

[larriva9/11]

That's interesting about Freleng. I'd thought he just didn't like his name, as I'd never really associated the name Isadore with being Jewish, probably because there's a popular saint (http://catholic-saints.suite101.com/article.cfm/patron_saint_of_the_internet) with a similar name.

Might have been a little bit of both. Remember that in the end, he chose to be called "Friz" rather than "Isadore"...

[Speedy Boris]

What animation did he do in WB's "Puss n' Booty"? I'd be interested in knowing. I thought that cartoon had some great character animation throughout.

[J Lee]

Nobody named Isadore in animation really seemed to want to use their full name a whole lot , or even the shorter version -- aside from Friz, you had Izzy Ellis on the West Coast who also preferred to go by his first initial, and the two I's -- Sparber and Klein -- on the east coast.

[J Lee]

What animation did he do in WB's "Puss n' Booty"? I'd be interested in knowing. I thought that cartoon had some great character animation throughout.

He did Rudolph's initial reaction when Dickie-Bird disappears (roughs from the scene are shown in Culhane's biography, but Rudolph is mis-labeled as Sylvester).

[Scuz Fink]

His real name was Shamus, but he changed it to James by the time he started his professional career in the 30's. I think it was because being a WASP was more highly regarded in those days, as opposed to being more "ethnic". Most white people with more ethnic names changed them to appear more "American" and less foreign. Hence, Vladimir Tytla became Bill, Isadore Freleng listed his name as I. Freleng in credits (to sound less Jewish), Jose Melendez became Bill Melendez, etc. Italians would sometimes drop the vowel at the end of their last names, ala Tony Bennett.

By the 60's that mentality was dropped, and it was okay to use one's real name, despite however foreign it may have sounded.

Interesting, thanks J.J.

[shoshani]

Most white people with more ethnic names changed them to appear more "American" and less foreign. Hence, Vladimir Tytla became Bill, Isadore Freleng listed his name as I. Freleng in credits (to sound less Jewish), Jose Melendez became Bill Melendez, etc. Italians would sometimes drop the vowel at the end of their last names, ala Tony Bennett.

Freling, of course, later got to obscure his first name entirely by using "Friz". But what's amusing is that his boss (Leon Schlesinger) never obscured his own ethnic name.

The Fleischer studio seems to have been a major exception to this obfuscation rule, since they have plenty of screen-credit names that are obviously Jewish (Max/Dave Fleischer, Seymour Kneitel, Myron Waldman) or obviously Italian (Nick Tafuri, Johnny Gentilella).

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Freling, of course, later got to obscure his first name entirely by using "Friz". But what's amusing is that his boss (Leon Schlesinger) never obscured his own ethnic name.

The Fleischer studio seems to have been a major exception to this obfuscation rule, since they have plenty of screen-credit names that are obviously Jewish (Max/Dave Fleischer, Seymour Kneitel, Myron Waldman) or obviously Italian (Nick Tafuri, Johnny Gentilella).
Maybe New York City was the exception to this rule? It was a more ethnically diverse place, and some some parts of the city were enclaves of certain ethnic groups -- Little Italy, Chinatown, etc. It might have been more tolerant of such differences. Not exactly the same as growing up in Kansas City in that era, I would think.

Culhane, in his autobiography, mentions that most of the crew of the Fleischer studio were the children of immigrants. They rejected their parents' old world views though, and considered themselves American. (Hence the preponderance of ethnic humor in those cartoons -- these kids were ridiculing their parents.)

[cpdavison]

I always figured that the "Friz" nick-name was a combination of "FR" from Freleng and "IZ" from Izzy, for Isadore.

(I remember Friz mentioning that his family's name was originally pronounced something like "Froi-ling" back in Germany. This is my recollection based on an over-herad comment he made prior to being inteviewed in Toronto back in 1980.)

FWIW...

Craig D.

[Ray Pointer]

Culhane, in his autobiography, mentions that most of the crew of the Fleischer studio were the children of immigrants. They rejected their parents' old world views though, and considered themselves American. (Hence the preponderance of ethnic humor in those cartoons -- these kids were ridiculing their parents.)

This was the case of the Fleischers, who did not practice the Hebrew faith, although their father absorbed himself in Othadox Judism after he lost the client base of his tailoring business. While a 1905 census record lists him as a Real Estate agent, he was essentially unemployed. This domestic situation brought about a condition of poverty which clearly contributed to the brothers' rejection of their heritage, seeing assimilation as a more desirable way of life.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

I always figured that the "Friz" nick-name was a combination of "FR" from Freleng and "IZ" from Izzy, for Isadore.

(I remember Friz mentioning that his family's name was originally pronounced something like "Froi-ling" back in Germany. This is my recollection based on an over-herad comment he made prior to being inteviewed in Toronto back in 1980.)

FWIW...

Craig D.
I heard that Freleng's nickname was based on a fictional character named Frizby used in a column of the Los Angeles Examiner newspaper. Other internet rumors claim the nickname came about because Freleng's hair was so frizzy. :confused: I have no idea if any of those stories are correct. Your explanation sounds more logical, though.

[Fibber Fox]

I heard that Freleng's nickname was based on a fictional character named Frizby used in a column of the Los Angeles Examiner newspaper.

Wasn't it Tashlin who made that revelation? (I've gone through a couple of books and I can't find the reference right now).

JJ, I was curious about something you wrote earlier. It is just an educated guess why Freleng used "I." as a screen credit, or do you have any source that states categorically it was due to his religion?

F. Fox

[J. J. Hunsecker]

JJ, I was curious about something you wrote earlier. It is just an educated guess why Freleng used "I." as a screen credit, or do you have any source that states categorically it was due to his religion?

F. Fox
If I'm remembering correctly, it was Freleng himself who stated that he used his initial in the credits, because he didn't want folks in the south to get upset that a jew directed the cartoon they were watching. However, I can't remember exactly where I read that interview, and will have to search for a while to find it.