Semi OT: Aspect Ratios on TV

[Vdubdavid]

I know that most classic movies and theatrical cartoons were made in an aspect ratio that is slightly larger than the standard TV screen. The TV is 1.33:1 inches, while movies are 1.37:1 (correct?). However, with these widescreen (16x9 inches) TV sets I've been seeing in stores, is it possible for the whole picture to be seen, or does the picture remain in 1.33:1 ratio? Does anyone own one of these sets who could prove/disprove this?

[Patrick McCart]

On widescreen TV's, you're supposed to "windowbox" 1.33:1 Standard material within the 1.78:1 widescreen frame. This results in black borders on the right and left of the image.

Many owners either stretch or crop the 1.33:1 image to fit 1.78:1, but those are very stupid people.

"Duck Amuck" in windowbox mode on a 16x9 TV:

http://img92.exs.cx/img92/4432/standard_windowboxed.jpg

"Duck Amuck" in crop mode on a 16x9 TV:

http://img92.exs.cx/img92/4781/standard_cropped.jpg

"Duck Amuck" in stretch mode on a 16x9 TV:

http://img92.exs.cx/img92/3040/standard_stretched.jpg

"The Big Snooze" in crop mode on a 16x9 TV:

http://img45.exs.cx/img45/1954/snoozecrop.jpg

Some people have tried to prove that windowboxing will damage the TV screen... this is just an urban legend. Besides, what's the use of a 16x9 TV if you can't show all aspect ratios properly?

[Banned Bunny]

Plasma TVs do warn about this, but it is differential aging that would be the problem if you ran too long. There is a "Just" setting that leaves the center in 4:3, and slowly stretches it toward the edges to fill the screen. I do not like the implementation as the center is still too "fat."

[Vdubdavid]

Thanks for the comparisons, Patrick. Does this mean that with "Duck Amuck" (and maybe cartoons before it) the whole picture is seen on all sides? What about cartoons made after the 1953 shutdown when the aspect ratio became wider, as evidenced by the redone "Bugs Bunny In" title card?

[Patrick McCart]

Thanks for the comparisons, Patrick. Does this mean that with "Duck Amuck" (and maybe cartoons before it) the whole picture is seen on all sides? What about cartoons made after the 1953 shutdown when the aspect ratio became wider, as evidenced by the redone "Bugs Bunny In" title card?
When you windowbox "Duck Amuck" or any other 1.33:1 video, it's being shown completely... except for overscan (which can be adjusted on a 16x9 TV).

I think the post-1953 cartoons were made "safe" for 1.66:1 matting, but they're really meant to be shown in Academy standard (1.33:1/1.37:1).

[Tom41]

Well, WB never released any of their cartoons in Cinemascope or other widescreen aspect ratios. Some TV networks will crop off the top and bottom of the 4:3 picture to make it 16:9, but this leads to framing errors and credits being missed off. (Doesn't stop CBBC doing it with their LTs though)

MGM and Disney did release several of their cartoons in Cinemascope though. Most of the time what you get on VHS and DVD is simply a pan-and-scan 4:3 version of the cartoon, but if you're lucky you may get an anamorphic widescreen version! I've seen that on some laserdiscs.
With the anamorphic version, you just have to set your TV to 'stretch' the picture horizontally so it fills the entire screen, and there you have the original widescreen cartoon! At least that's how it appears for me ;)

Having said that though, Boomerang recently showed 'Another Froggy Evening' and it seemed to be in anamorphic widescreen! I switched my TV to 16:9 stretch mode, and was able to watch the cartoon in its original format.

[JDWeil]

Well, WB never released any of their cartoons in Cinemascope or other widescreen aspect ratios. Some TV networks will crop off the top and bottom of the 4:3 picture to make it 16:9, but this leads to framing errors and credits being missed off. (Doesn't stop CBBC doing it with their LTs though)

MGM and Disney did release several of their cartoons in Cinemascope though. Most of the time what you get on VHS and DVD is simply a pan-and-scan 4:3 version of the cartoon, but if you're lucky you may get an anamorphic widescreen version! I've seen that on some laserdiscs.
With the anamorphic version, you just have to set your TV to 'stretch' the picture horizontally so it fills the entire screen, and there you have the original widescreen cartoon! At least that's how it appears for me ;)

Having said that though, Boomerang recently showed 'Another Froggy Evening' and it seemed to be in anamorphic widescreen! I switched my TV to 16:9 stretch mode, and was able to watch the cartoon in its original format.
Disney actually film their CinemaScope releases twice: One in wide screen and one in standard frame since many theatres were not equipped with CinemaScope projectors. No change in the animation but the backgrounds had to be reconfigured for the 4:3 aspect ratio which did increasae the cost of the cartoons. MGM did no such thing: It was pan and scan for TV release. Warner Bros never used CinemaScope or even its own WarnerSuperScope process for its cartoons but its most recent Looney Tunes releases use the now standard 5:2 aspect ratio which originated with the VistaVision process and is now the standard aspect ratio in the industry.

[Tom41]

I thought MGM produced both Cinemascope and 4:3 prints of some of their cartoons. I have two versions of Southbound Duckling, one in Cinemascope (pan and scanned for TV), and the other in 4:3 format with all the animation visible! What they usually did in this case was to take the 4:3 footage and crop off the top and bottom to make it cinemascope - literally pan and scanning vertically!

A few T&J cartoons were re-released in Cinemascope, just taking the original animation and overlaying it over new (simpler) backgrounds, then filming it in widescreen format. But it's not perfect!
An example of a framing error is in The Egg and Jerry, when Jerry turns the woodpecker away from his house. The woodpecker stops and looks back, and you hear the door closing. On the 4:3 version, Jerry was out of shot by this time. But on the Cinemascope version, you can still see the edge of Jerry pointing when the door slam sound occurs!

[Vdubdavid]

What I guess this boils down to is did Warners, or any other animation studio for that matter, use the 1.37:1 ratio and are we therefore losing some of the picture?

[Treadwell]

Yes and yes (if it isn't windowboxed).