OT: Pixar

[Mr. Semaj]

Like many, I enjoy most if not all of the Pixar films to date. I've seen WALL-E twice, and it has become my new most favorite of their films.

But where will Pixar go from there? Since Cars, there has been a growing controversy on some of the change of gears Pixar has taken, particularly when compared to Disney's line of films.

Part of the problem comes from the fact that none of their films have had as high an opening as The Incredibles, or as high an overall gross as Finding Nemo. Every film is expected to meet or beat its previous record. WALL-E, while not meeting it, has made a higher debut than Cars and Ratatouille, except that its impact is muted by the film's astronomical budget, the highest for any Pixar film to date.

As we're seeing now with WALL-E, these changes are creating a noticeable schism in the Pixar fanbase; those who love each and every one of their newest efforts, and those that are slowly backing away from them. The general guess behind this trend is that as Pixar continues to be successful, their next challenge is to try covering new terrain, but keep the audience interested (coming with an overbearing but valid concern that sticking to the tried-and-true will wear thin after a while). Granted, Pixar's films are now using storytelling a little more advanced than what they've become recognized for, like with Ratatouille's effort to overcome the derivation that dominates our modern society.

However, I think they're doing much better at this change of pace than Disney was doing during the 90's. With Disney, the corresponding reaction to their gear shifting, beginning with Pocohontas, took a much steeper drop, with all but three films from the 1995-2004 period not making nearly as much money as any of their Renaissance (1989-94) films.

But it seems on that note, some are anticipating a similar trend for Pixar, with a few critics quick to label Ratatouille as their "first flop", despite its critical success and being the third most profitable Pixar film (http://boxofficemojo.com/showdowns/chart/?id=vs-pixar.htm) worldwide. It is terribly wrong to expect from Pixar a similar crash-and-burn as Disney, or worse yet, a whoring out of their product like DreamWorks and Sony. The fact that they're expected to top each of their previous films, in terms of domestic intake, is more evidence of Hollywood's unhealthy craving for more, with unreasonable limits, than any possible weakness on Pixar's part. (Kudos to Pixar, by the way, for openly ignoring analytical fussing.) And Pixar should be noted for dodging many stereotypes that come with animated features, such as all-star casting and overly-passive personalities of lead characters. It's practically the last of its kind.

My only concern from all this is, with Toy Story 3 and Cars 2 down the pipeline, Pixar might eventually be pressured into making more sequels, even though they did it right once before with Toy Story 2. A habit that Disney has just kicked (in terms of DVD films based from their canonical library), but still all too common in general Hollywood circuits.

With these recent developments, only time will tell where they will take us.

[trondmm]

But where will Pixar go from there?

Up (http://www.cartoonbrew.com/feature-film/teaser-trailer-for-pixars-up)

[mikematei]

Who cares what the films grossed? It's not like you're getting the money. Here's a good article on Pixar and Wall E.

http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Commentary/KungFuPanda/KungFuPanda.html

[CueBallCat79]

Who cares what the films grossed? It's not like you're getting the money. Here's a good article on Pixar and Wall E.

http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Commentary/KungFuPanda/KungFuPanda.html

Oh God here we go. Do we really need to drag this WALL-E thing here? I can easily see where this thread is going to go. Probably going to de-evolve into lots of mindless Pixar/WALL-E bashing while the people who do love Pixar and the films they make will be stuck in a position of trying to defend themselves and what they like. That Barrier review opens all sorts of floodgates. Do people even enjoy films anymore? Or does everyone now have over-analyze movies and pick them apart in a vain attempt to sound intellectual. I've never liked Michael Barrier either way. His dry commentaries on the Goldens Collections are the only ones I always skip. At least John K's stuff is enthusiastic.

That said, I loved WALL-E. The best animated film I've seen in a long time and definitley my favorite Pixar film. It moved me and, yes, I actually could identify with those little robots. Great animation, great story, great score. As for Toy Story 3 and Cars 2: I can easily see the former turning out very well. The latter not so much. Then again, Cars is my least favorite Pixar film.

And I'll reserve judgement on Up until I, you know, actually see it.

[Philo & Gunge]

I actually like the direction Pixar is taking. It takes a lot of courage for a studio to go from one film to going in a completely different direction the next. I have enjoyed every Pixar film and I know I will enjoy all their future films.

I don't think Toy Story 3 or Cars 2 are going to impact Pixar in anyway besides the economic side of it. Like the folks there have said, they don't do sequels unless they have a great idea for them. If they have a good plot for Cars 2, then I say they should go for it.

[Tom Stathes]

While I'm not a full blown fan of CGI films, I do prefer the road Pixar is taking in terms of storylines and content in their films. I found Wall-E, despite certain problems that I had relating to the character, to be more refreshing than cliche films about "cool" animals bursting out in song and dance and saying silly things that become phrases children will then use. In this regard, the film content is taking a step up in my opinion.
Now having seen the trailer for UP, I can say this will likely be a film I will enjoy... if not for the animation, for the story and what its basis seems to be. In my ideal world, a story like this might be done by Will Vinton in Claymation...I'll wait to see it before making any criticisms.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

Pixar is really the only animation studio doing any interesting these days. I think their best films are Toy Story, Toy Story II, The Incredibles, and Ratatouille, and their other films aren't a complete loss, either. They usually always have good art direction. Their animation keeps getting better. (Cars was a step backward, though.)

I don't get all the animosity towards Wall-E, either. Mark Mayerson is one of the few critics of the film to have some valid points, (second post here (http://mayersononanimation.blogspot.com/search/label/Wall-E) on his blog) but in the long run all the criticism against the lack of "logic" in the film is pointless. It's entertaining, and the storytelling is solid. I would rate it above Cars and Monsters, Inc.

I think what the animation fans really hate is that Wall-E blurs the line between animation and live action, in ways the earlier Pixar films never did. Wall-E's art direction veers towards photo realism, and the robots aren't cartoon robots -- they move like real machines, without any stretch and squash. There is no "cartoon license" taken to make them more expressive. Those were the rules and limitations the artists set for themselves, and within their own framework they were successful.

[Surenity]

So Disney's movies not doing so well in the late 90's is the reason why they now have Pixar do all their movies for them? I hope that when their next traditionally animated movie comes out (I think next year if I'm not mistaken), it does well so they can have enough confidence in themselves to make movies again and bring hand drawn animation back. For me no computer animated movie has come close to being as good as 80's/90's Disney nor Don Bluth's films. Maybe it's because I saw those when I was a kid and they're just more sentimental to me than a movie I saw in my 20's would be, but I think thats really only part of the answer. I'm not trying to bash CGI, I'm just saying it doesn't seem to have the same magic for me.

[FleischerFan]

Just a quick note for Surenity - Disney doesn't have Pixar doing all their animation. Disney shifted their theatrical animation to CGI before the Pixar merger. The upcoming film "Bolt" is from Disney, not Pixar.

I agree with J.J. I found WALL-E to be a good, solid film. I liked it better than "Cars" and "Monsters, Inc." (and "A Bug's Life"), but not up there with the two "Toy Story" movies, "The Incredibles," and "Finding Nemo."

Hollywood always judges things by the box office. That's just the way it is. But while they always measure a new film compared to the production team and/or stars last film(s), movies that make a healthy profit are usually not considered "flops." "Ratatouille" made a very tidy profit. It is not a flop.

Critics are also in the business of trying to attract attention to themselves. Some do it by proclaiming every film "the greatest" and some do it by dumping on films popular with the general public. Take one and all of them with a grain of salt.

Pixar has not yet made a bad film. To my knowledge, all of have been profitable. And they are to be commended for continuing to produce animated shorts.

Pixar has managed to confound expectations for some time and are probably the single most influential cartoon studio since UPA in the late 40's-early 50's.

I am content to sit in the audience, patiently waiting to see what they do next.

[trondmm - Great post!]

[Duck Dodgers]

This is pretty much my gereral point on CGI, computer animation and the likes:

http://classiccartoons.blogspot.com/2008/07/take-this-cgi.html

[Bugsy-Kun]

That's i find a bit embarassing is how they think know how animation works because they work with CGI instead to drawing a dozen of draws in any sheets. I just don't care to CGI animations anymore. The only movies i liked from CGI is Toy Story and The Incredibles and that's it! I liked no because for the CGI but for their storylines. It's why i feel failed with Finding Nemo.

[CueBallCat79]

That's i find a bit embarassing is how they think know how animation works because they work with CGI instead to drawing a dozen of draws in any sheets. I just don't care to CGI animations anymore. The only movies i liked from CGI is Toy Story and The Incredibles and that's it! I liked no because for the CGI but for their storylines. It's why i feel failed with Finding Nemo.

Come again?

[John Pannozzi]

Oh God here we go. Do we really need to drag this WALL-E thing here? I can easily see where this thread is going to go. Probably going to de-evolve into lots of mindless Pixar/WALL-E bashing while the people who do love Pixar and the films they make will be stuck in a position of trying to defend themselves and what they like. That Barrier review opens all sorts of floodgates. Do people even enjoy films anymore? Or does everyone now have over-analyze movies and pick them apart in a vain attempt to sound intellectual. I've never liked Michael Barrier either way. His dry commentaries on the Goldens Collections are the only ones I always skip. At least John K's stuff is enthusiastic.

That said, I loved WALL-E. The best animated film I've seen in a long time and definitley my favorite Pixar film. It moved me and, yes, I actually could identify with those little robots. Great animation, great story, great score. As for Toy Story 3 and Cars 2: I can easily see the former turning out very well. The latter not so much. Then again, Cars is my least favorite Pixar film.

And I'll reserve judgement on Up until I, you know, actually see it.
I see where you're coming from. In any case, I was intrigued by some of the comments here (http://www.michaelbarrier.com/Feedback/feedback_incredibles.htm), particularly the idea of Chihiro from Spirited Away being more interesting if she were a live-action character in a CGI world, and Thad's comments about CGI lacking the individuality of the best 2-D animation.

[Marty26]

I'll be seeing this movie hopefully sometime next week. I agree that Pixar seems to be the only animation studio consistently churning out truly innovative and worthwhile movies nowadays. Although Dreamworks also seems to be rebounding with the surprisingly good Kung-Fu Panda.

I also agree that, in addition to CG itself being overdone in animation, the whole "cool singing/dancing animals voiced by big-shot celebrities" shtick has also gotten old. It's amazing how something as seemingly innocent as Eddie Murphy's portrayal of Donkey in the Shrek movies can result in just about every non-Pixar CG movie thereafter doing the same thing. For a clear example, see David Schwimmer's IMO completely uncharacteristic portrayal of Melman The Giraffe in Madagascar. I guess the guy was in desperate need of work after Friends was cancelled a year prior!

[Mac]

I'm a big fan of Pixar. I've enjoyed all of their films so far and some of them are easily among my favourite movies ever. I think it's been fascinating watching the development of computer generated animation and seeing it grow up with me (the earliest Pixar shorts were made when I was very young). I don't think CGI is superior to hand drawn, but some wonderful things have been done and it looks to me like Pixar are going to continue being innovative and make a diverse range of films, whilst still keeping everything family friendly.

The next film is Up. This sounds quite different to anything Pixar's done so far and could be very unique. Some people are saying it will be boring since the main character is an old man (how narrow-minded can you get?), but I don't think much has been revelaed about the adventure side of this story (I've been trying to avoid spoilers). Then there's Toy Story 3. Anyone following Pixar that think they've gotten too far away from their 'roots' should be glad to see a return to these characters. I suppose some could say Pixar are cashing in on a sure-fire hit, but I think the characters have one more story to tell – it will have been 10 years since the last one and I want to see what happens to the toys once Andy has grown up.

We can only guess about what Pixar's future films will be like. 'Newt' sounds like it could be in the fun tradition of the earlier Pixar films. The Bear and the Bow is supposed to be a fairytale, but I doubt it will be like Disney fairytale films – I imagine something more mysterious and mythical. Cars 2 is the film that is the least intriguing to me. The first one was my least favourite (but still enjoyable) and I like the diverse range of Pixar films so I don't want them to get too into sequels. I do hope the sequel will be better than the first and it will have been 6 years since that one came out (so it's not like it's just being cranked out). Also I don't think it's bad for there to be a film that little boys will like. The other Pixar film we know about is John Carter of Mars. This should be another very different film for Pixar since it could very likely be in live action and not be quite so safe for really young kids.

This sounds like a very diverse range of family films (some of them might not even be family films). Like FleischerFan, I'm happy to sit back and see what they come out with. Even if Pixar starts making films I don't like, I won't feel truly disappointed until I see a drop in quality.