Another Redrawn Thread-Who did what?

[dandu]

Well I've been studying the end credits of the redrawn Betty Boops and wonder who did the most as well as some I don't have original titles to so I have no idea, I know JH song did some and Hangul did others.

JH Song:
Crazytown
Red Hot Mama
Betty Boop's Trial
Happy You and Merry Me (which I need a redrawn copy of since my DVD of it got corrupted)
I'll Be Glad You Are Dead You Rascal You

Hangul:
Betty Boop's Bizzy Bee
A Language All My Own
Is My Palm Read
Judge for a Day
So Does an Automobile
Snow White
Betty Boop's Kerchoo!
Whoops I'm a Cowboy!
Mask A Raid
Stop that Noise!

Unsure:
Betty Boop's Halloween Party (JH Song?)
Betty Boop MD (Hangul? My copy is from Betty Boop for President, does anyone have an original colorized copy?)
Swing School (Hangul?)
Henry (Likely JH Song)
Making Stars (Hangul? I have a slightly faded and splicy copy)
No No A Thousand Times No! (Hangul?)
Betty Boop and the Little King (Hangul?)
Boop Boop A Doop (Hangul? It is from BB for Prez, so I'd like a complete copy)
Minnie the Moocher (likely JH Song, from BB for Prez, would like a nice full copy)
The Dancing Fool (Likely Hangul...My copy is from Betty Boop for President, does anyone have an original colorized copy?)
Pudgy in Thrills and Chills (Likely JH Song...My copy is from Betty Boop for President, does anyone have an original colorized copy?)
When My Ship Comes In (Likely JH Song...My copy is from Betty Boop for President, does anyone have an original colorized copy?)

[Matthew Hunter]

With all due respect, Dandu...we have enough trouble figuring out who did what on classic b/w cartoons themselves. Not to be rude, but crediting those who ruined them is kind of low on the to-do list around here!

[Tom Stathes]

Well if anyone has the information and is willing to volunteer it, I would welcome it ;)
No facets of animation history (whether deemed good or bad by "popular" vote") should go unturned IMHO.

[absolutpaul]

Yah...since they were so sloppily done in the first place, even those end title credits may not even be accurate. Although all those redrawns are now considered to be dead, I have to admit it would be interesting to locate some of the people who worked on them and hear the story first-hand. Surely there would still be a lot of them alive, but I guess we'll never know who they were.

[dandu]

I'm sure there is a possiblility that BOTH people worked on one cartoon, or a third party was involved, but so far, I can tell from the color choices, Hangul is more into warmer blander colors, but JH Song uses cooler colors.
I've seen clips of "The Betty Boop Limited" from Hurrah For Betty Boop (so I would like a complete copy as well of the original colorized cartoon) and the animation quality is too low for even Hangul and JH Song's standards, it is likely a 3rd party was involved. If this is all true, I can probably guess who redrew the Looney Tunes ones, JH Song probably supervised the Impatient Patient...

[Ray Pointer]

I would agree with Mathew Hunter. Since the interest here is in the purity of classic animation, any attention given to these abominable color remakes is a disservice to the original works, and crediting the parties responsible for their ruin is an even greater disservice. I cannot believe that ANYONE would see value in these terrible things, and I pitty anyone who thinks they are worth watching. :sailor: :betty:

[gdX]

it would be interesting to locate some of the people who worked on them
... so they could be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

[dandu]

... so they could be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.

Don't be mean to them please. I myself would like to find good copies on film in IB Tech, Fujicolor, etc.

[Tom Stathes]

All I can say is I'll take redrawn cartoons over modern flash cartoons any day. ;)
Personally I put the original cartoons and redrawns in two completely different categories. The latter is merely a novelty of sorts, something a fan of oddities and curiosities would see as having some sort of obscure shock value. When I'm watching a redrawn Betty Boop, I keep in mind that I'm not watching an 'enhanced' original, rather a low-end cartoon made completely new in the 60s or 70s.

[Tom Stathes]

... so they could be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law.
Should sweatshop toy factory workers in China be prosecuted for putting lead in toys? Like the Chinese factory workers ("employees"), I'm very sure the animators in Korea were working on these so they could eat. Your sentiments should be aimed at WB for commissioning them. :befuddled

[Patrick McCart]

Don't be mean to them please. I myself would like to find good copies on film in IB Tech, Fujicolor, etc.

All the redrawns were shot on 16mm. Kodachrome for the Looney Tunes and I think Ektachrome for Betty Boop, the Radio & TV Packagers bunch, and later the Popeye and B&W Merrie Melodies cartoons.

No IB Tech prints should exist.

Archives aren't even keeping these around. UCLA and the Library of Congress used to hold 16mm prints of the colorized Looney Tunes, but they're not listed anymore.

[Tom Stathes]

Non-fade 16mms should be Fuji, but correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure all TV station stuff was crummy eastman. One thing I do know is that LoC still lists some of their Radio & Television Packagers holdings of stuff like the Mutt & Jeff redrawns.

[Studio Toledo]

Yah...since they were so sloppily done in the first place, even those end title credits may not even be accurate. Although all those redrawns are now considered to be dead, I have to admit it would be interesting to locate some of the people who worked on them and hear the story first-hand. Surely there would still be a lot of them alive, but I guess we'll never know who they were.
I just assume a lot of nameless people running around Seoul with nothing to do one day but probably responded to a want ad about painting cels to a bunch of cartoons they might never see at all!

It should be of note that "Hangul" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hangul) that Dandu refers to is actually the native alphabet of the Korean language. I would assume the same studio over there probably worked on all of them, but some of them often had different end credit cels that were used that either had it all in English, or somehow had it where the bottom of the screen had something written in Korean on it that hasn't been translated (or unless it meat the same thing as the colorization credits were).

[Studio Toledo]

I would agree with Mathew Hunter. Since the interest here is in the purity of classic animation, any attention given to these abominable color remakes is a disservice to the original works, and crediting the parties responsible for their ruin is an even greater disservice. I cannot believe that ANYONE would see value in these terrible things, and I pitty anyone who thinks they are worth watching. :sailor: :betty:
Like me! Thank god we should be passed that by this point!

[Studio Toledo]

All I can say is I'll take redrawn cartoons over modern flash cartoons any day. ;)
Personally I put the original cartoons and redrawns in two completely different categories. The latter is merely a novelty of sorts, something a fan of oddities and curiosities would see as having some sort of obscure shock value. When I'm watching a redrawn Betty Boop, I keep in mind that I'm not watching an 'enhanced' original, rather a low-end cartoon made completely new in the 60s or 70s.
For me, I like to think it was something that came out of the minds of three 10 year olds who spent a night in their parents garage with the super-8 camera, but that's about it!

Of course with YouTube, the fetishes that were once very bottled-up come pouring out like so much trash! The "closing logo" people is a good start!

[Studio Toledo]

Should sweatshop toy factory workers in China be prosecuted for putting lead in toys? Like the Chinese factory workers ("employees"), I'm very sure the animators in Korea were working on these so they could eat. Your sentiments should be aimed at WB for commissioning them. :befuddled
Especilaly a WB that was under Seven Arts' control at the time most of those were made!

[Studio Toledo]

All the redrawns were shot on 16mm. Kodachrome for the Looney Tunes and I think Ektachrome for Betty Boop, the Radio & TV Packagers bunch, and later the Popeye and B&W Merrie Melodies cartoons.
I was amused when a redrawn Popeye cartoon showed up on eBay a while back on 16mm (most of us having only saw them on TV from usual video masters)!

No IB Tech prints should exist.
Indeed.

Archives aren't even keeping these around. UCLA and the Library of Congress used to hold 16mm prints of the colorized Looney Tunes, but they're not listed anymore.
Much like my idea of buying up those redrawned cels and burning those up as my own version of a funeral!

[Studio Toledo]

Non-fade 16mms should be Fuji, but correct me if I'm wrong. I'm sure all TV station stuff was crummy eastman. One thing I do know is that LoC still lists some of their Radio & Television Packagers holdings of stuff like the Mutt & Jeff redrawns.
I should show how reddish the couple of redrawn Porky Pig's I have look like! That's the best treatment they deserve!

[Tom Stathes]

Thank goodness opinion is not fact. :D

[Andrew T.]

Frankly, I think it's easy to get a little over-worked up about the matter.

There's nothing wrong with doing a little research on redrawn, colorized versions of classic cartoons: No one would endorse them as the definitive versions of respective works, but they serve as a historical curiosity and interesting footnote to the world of animation.

It isn't as if poorly-redrawn cartoons are popular and are replacing black and white originals in circulation as we speak; on the contrary, the opposite trends have held true. In all certainty, no one will have to see these colorizations again: Complaining about their mere existence today is a petty concern.

Should sweatshop toy factory workers in China be prosecuted for putting lead in toys? Like the Chinese factory workers ("employees"), I'm very sure the animators in Korea were working on these so they could eat. Your sentiments should be aimed at WB for commissioning them. :befuddled
Indeed: I highly doubt that the people who physically redrew these cartoons had any say in the matter.

Of course with YouTube, the fetishes that were once very bottled-up come pouring out like so much trash! The "closing logo" people is a good start!
Funny you should mention that: I briefly dabbled my toes into the "closing logo" clique myself a short while, but left due to all the discussions and concerns they engage in solidly on the asinine side. I find graphic details mildly interesting, but only secondarily within the context of films, programs, or presentation as a whole.

(Then again, I also know people who collect Weather Channel footage...)

[Studio Toledo]

It isn't as if poorly-redrawn cartoons are popular and are replacing black and white originals in circulation as we speak; on the contrary, the opposite trends have held true. In all certainty, no one will have to see these colorizations again: Complaining about their mere existence today is a petty concern.
I call it an excuse for TV stations to get the most out of the million dollar color equipment they just had to get to keep up with the Joneses! Really, if you were the only indie in town while all the network affiliates got themselves suited up for the next couple decades, you'd do the same too.

Indeed: I highly doubt that the people who physically redrew these cartoons had any say in the matter.
Given the state Korea was in at the time, I could see why they would be desperate for work in those days.

Funny you should mention that: I briefly dabbled my toes into the "closing logo" clique myself a short while, but left due to all the discussions and concerns they engage in solidly on the asinine side. I find graphic details mildly interesting, but only secondarily within the context of films, programs, or presentation as a whole.
Really, nothing pleases people. This is why I've became rather a nervious wreck when it comes to graphic design of all sorts. It was cute back in school, but this is just rediculous! Can't those people just be happy? I'm getting to the point where I despise any product that decides to change it's look after it stood the test of time for decades (like what Wrigley's did to it's gum packaging of Spearmint, Doublemint and Juicy Fruit, those didn't need to be 'improved' upon, and certainly lost it's touch now that they've decided not to keep the arrows consistent on 'em). I really hate those people!

(Then again, I also know people who collect Weather Channel footage...)
At least it's not as rediculous when it comes to the classic 80's footage I miss of TWC before they gone documentary-happy. I love seeing what TV had been like when I was 5 years old, far better than today I tell you.

[Tom Stathes]

Frankly, I think it's easy to get a little over-worked up about the matter.

There's nothing wrong with doing a little research on redrawn, colorized versions of classic cartoons: No one would endorse them as the definitive versions of respective works, but they serve as a historical curiosity and interesting footnote to the world of animation.

It isn't as if poorly-redrawn cartoons are popular and are replacing black and white originals in circulation as we speak; on the contrary, the opposite trends have held true. In all certainty, no one will have to see these colorizations again: Complaining about their mere existence today is a petty concern.

Thank you for your diplomatic point of view on this. ;)

[Ray Pointer]

[QUOTE=Andrew T.]Frankly, I think it's easy to get a little over-worked up about the matter.

There's nothing wrong with doing a little research on redrawn, colorized versions of classic cartoons: No one would endorse them as the definitive versions of respective works, but they serve as a historical curiosity and interesting footnote to the world of animation. It isn't as if poorly-redrawn cartoons are popular and are replacing black and white originals in circulation as we speak; on the contrary, the opposite trends have held true. In all certainty, no one will have to see these colorizations again: Complaining about their mere existence today is a petty concern. QUOTE]

The distortion of these works, as well an any other distortions of history are not petty concerns. Many people have been mislead into thinking that these badly produced color remakes were the originals. Someone actually made the remark that he "could not believe that people would watch these cartoons in theaters. It's no wonder that Disney was so much more superior." Thank goodness that in forums such as this we can set the record straight and help reinforce the integrity of the works that we appreciate. So any criticisms or complaints are anything but "petty."

It is indeed curious that the "business" people involved with these efforts failed to see the "big picture" in what they were doing. While television sales agents killed off the black and white film market for television, the owners of the libraries failed to realize the real market value of what they had. Their attempt to repackage the black and white cartoons in color was for the sake of selling them in color, failing to take into consideration the fact that much of the material was dated in light of contemporary properties. The other issue was that these cartoons may not have been suited to a children's market, which is what the intent was. This is how the color remakes of LOONEY TUNES and POPEYE were marketed. While the Post-code BETTY BOOP cartoons would have been suitable for children, their production values made them very undesirable in these color versions. The curiosity, or interst seems to lie in the soundtracks, which help hold them together. But without the tracks, I would doubt that anyone would have watched because visually they are rather poor.

So after all the trouble and expense, it was a waste of time and money, and the "masterminds" may defeated their purpose since they had a product with limited value that largely was not appreciated. There was a certain amount of money made from these, of course, but it was over a short term based on a limited vision. So the real curiosity is WHY bother at all considering the result?

[J Lee]

Elliott Hyman's big financial kill in the 1956 purchase of the pre-48 Warners package was no doubt a driving force here. He scored some big $$$ re-selling the features and cartoons to United Artists just two years later, and probably saw remaking the B&W Porky Looney Tunes as a cheap way to create a viable syndication package, with ABC still airing the post-48 Porky cartoons on Saturday morning (and remember, Hyman's Seven Arts closed the deal to have the cartoons redrawn before the merger with Warner Bros., so in the way that the merger of the Turner pre-48 WB package with Time-Warner in 1995 made sense for the cartoon division by "reuniting" the AAP shorts with the others, the 1967 merger also was a way to reunite some of the studios' past product, which was then combined with the post-48 shorts in the new syndication package).

[Studio Toledo]

So after all the trouble and expense, it was a waste of time and money, and the "masterminds" may defeated their purpose since they had a product with limited value that largely was not appreciated. There was a certain amount of money made from these, of course, but it was over a short term based on a limited vision. So the realy curiosity is WHY bother at all considering the result?
In short, they are an anachronism that should just be forgotten!