Blue Ribbons

[pablo]

The third disc of LTGC5 has a great little extra, showcasing the original music and recreated credits for The Bashful Buzzard. Now this may be a stupid question, but why can't WB do this for the other BR shorts that are included in the GCs without their real credits? Is that just not possible? I don't mean to insert them into the short itself, but just present as an extra, with or without the score. It's a very valuable and important feature, and I'm glad we got at least one.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

I saw a 16mm print long ago of The Bashful Buzzard (someone at the Museum of Fine Art in Boston had a copy) that actually had its original titles, and they weren't at all like the recreated title cards on the LTGC set. I remember that the original titles were superimposed over the painting of the buzzards seen in the first scene of the cartoon (the faraway long shot). So we actually see that image for a while before the camera quickly zooms into the closer shot of the buzzards. It creates quite a shock, because you get lulled by the quite stillness of that background painting, then it is unexpectedly shattered.

This effect is lost in the Blue Ribbon re-issue. We don't see the original opening shot of the faraway buzzards long enough to create the shock effect.

Unfortunately, this isn't something I can prove, and I saw the 16mm print back in the early 80's -- and I do have a poor memory -- so take this for what it's worth.

[Larry T]

I remember that the original titles were superimposed over the painting of the buzzards seen in the first scene of the cartoon (the faraway long shot). So we actually see that image for a while before the camera quickly zooms into the closer shot of the buzzards.

You know what, J.J. that sounds very familiar- and I recall seeing it that way as well... and being 'jarred' by the rapid zoom in.

I can't recall where I'd have seen it like this though- I know it was on a big screen showing however, so it must have been either at one of Reg Hartt's screenings in the 80s, or an animation retrospective I'd attended in any one of a million places over the past 25 years :o .

[pablo]

So what's preventing WB from including as extras recreated titles for those several shorts that are included in the GCs as BRs without credits? Some have just the BR intro but the credits are intact, but some have no credits? Are those just lost forever, or WB just didn't want to include them?

[J. J. Hunsecker]

So what's preventing WB from including as extras recreated titles for those several shorts that are included in the GCs as BRs without credits? Some have just the BR intro but the credits are intact, but some have no credits? Are those just lost forever, or WB just didn't want to include them?
I have to assume that Warners no longer has the negatives of the original titles, and that the restored titles on the DVDs are taken from another source -- a 35mm workprint or release print, or in some cases a 16mm print.

[J. J. Hunsecker]

You know what, J.J. that sounds very familiar- and I recall seeing it that way as well... and being 'jarred' by the rapid zoom in.

I can't recall where I'd have seen it like this though- I know it was on a big screen showing however, so it must have been either at one of Reg Hartt's screenings in the 80s, or an animation retrospective I'd attended in any one of a million places over the past 25 years :o .
I'm glad I'm not the only one who remembers seeing it that way. Now I know I'm not insane...mostly.

[rex racer]

So what's preventing WB from including as extras recreated titles for those several shorts that are included in the GCs as BRs without credits? Some have just the BR intro but the credits are intact, but some have no credits? Are those just lost forever, or WB just didn't want to include them?

I'd guess it's an expense issue. In this instance a technician fabricated substitute cards to provide a conceptual visual accompaniment to a re-discovered music cue found in the WB archives. Could they do this for every Blue Ribbon? Sure, and with or without the snipped musical bridges that usually played under the actual title card. But is it worth the additional expense to create another non-original intro sequence for all the blue ribbons they can't find original prints of? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion... ;)

It might make more sense to re-edit the blue ribbons by subbing in the correct beginning and ending graphics with the proper intro and exit music though. Only the actual title card itself would still be a re-release graphic. With this approach each BR film would be restored as "close but not complete" to its original form as is possible...

I kinda think though that a corporate decision has been made to only do a restoration beyond color and sound if they've got all of the missing parts to work with....

[pablo]

But my question is more of, do these credits actually exist at all, as stills, for example? Any way to see them?

[Larry T]

I kinda think though that a corporate decision has been made to only do a restoration beyond color and sound if they've got all of the missing parts to work with....

I'd agree with this too Del. Sometimes prints turn up later because they get discovered somewhere or someone comes forth with one of them, and for them to go through the work to restore it all over again is a costly measure, even if it's just for one cartoon- especially if there's others still waiting in the queue. Besides, they usually have the next couple volumes planned out... so it CAN get released on a later set once they do the ones they already have.

But my question is more of, do these credits actually exist at all, as stills, for example? Any way to see them?

Only if the actual artwork was still available somewhere. And since there's only one cel layover or background for each title screen (because it's not animated), there's a better chance of obtaining an original print someplace since there were more copies made of those.

It had occurred to me while watching the 'simulated' titles of Bashful Buzzard, sometimes the title cards were roughed out in the storyboard as well, especially if they were animated, and we would see what they might have looked like conceptually.... but after seeing the storyboard reel on the LTGC, this wasn't the case.

[J Lee]

You know what, J.J. that sounds very familiar- and I recall seeing it that way as well... and being 'jarred' by the rapid zoom in.

I can't recall where I'd have seen it like this though- I know it was on a big screen showing however, so it must have been either at one of Reg Hartt's screenings in the 80s, or an animation retrospective I'd attended in any one of a million places over the past 25 years :o .

The rediscovered opening music sounds a lot like Stalling's opening for Beaky's first cartoon, "Bugs Bunny Gets the Boid", and the opening titles you describe also sound similar to the way Bob opened his first cartoon (Apparently, juding by the surviving credits on this and some of the other 1945 LTs, the ones without Bugs in them didn't receive their full animation credits as quickly as the non-Bugs MM cartoons did of the same period, which would make it easy for Carl and Bob to do something close to what they did to start the 1942 cartoon).

The decision to recreate the credits for Vol. 5 represents a bit of a turnaround for the LTGC. We all know Warners has the original opening music for Freleng's "Tweety Pie", but at the time that cartoon came out on DVD three years ago, it was decided not to try and do any title recreation as a bonus feature as they did with "The Bashful Buzzard".

[Vdubdavid]

I know, and it surprises me that at the very least in the cases where there's music but no visuals, they don't have the original audio available as a "listen-only" bonus.

[Tom Stathes]

But my question is more of, do these credits actually exist at all, as stills, for example? Any way to see them?
I think we're giving very good (but complicated) answers to your simple question...in short, much of that material is completely lost at this point in time. A lot of restoration in this case would have to depend on the studio or collectors finding original 35mm nitrate theatrical prints (in other words, prints made from the negatives before they were cut up for TV), or period 16mm reductions (that were probably distributed as rentals or to theaters with 16mm equipment...I'm not sure about this, mind you). :shame:

[pablo]

I think we're giving very good (but complicated) answers to your simple question...in short, much of that material is completely lost at this point in time. A lot of restoration in this case would have to depend on the studio or collectors finding original 35mm nitrate theatrical prints (in other words, prints made from the negatives before they were cut up for TV), or period 16mm reductions (that were probably distributed as rentals or to theaters with 16mm equipment...I'm not sure about this, mind you). :shame:

No, I know. It's just sad that if WB actually has access to the real credits, or knows what they look like (stills, etc.), they just choose not to include them on the sets as extras.

Like, for instance, with openings of Tom and Jerry. I'm sure everyone has seen the stills from the original opening on Jerry's site. Yet that wasn't included on any of the T&J discs.